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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera
Thread started 29 Jun 2017 (Thursday) 08:55
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Sigma 85 1.4 Art on 6D/6DII

 
TheRealOlf
Hatchling
8 posts
Joined Jun 2017
Jun 29, 2017 08:55 |  #1

Hi all,

I have been searching this forum a bit but did not find a really matching thread.
My situation is as follows, I just ordered a Sigma 85 Art series lens in order to match it with a 40D.
However, I made the investment while keeping in mind I want to move to full frame on a short term. I cannot defend ordering the 5D Mark IV for my current usage so I was hoping the 6D Mark II would be the match for me, for sure including more cross focus points compared to the 6D mark I.

But now, reading some first impressions regarding the 6D Mark II, I came across several discussions of people claiming that they were not able to use a fast lens like a 85 1.4 on a 6D camera in an acceptable way.
They said it was hard to impossible to focus and recompose using the center focus point of the 6D (due to the super thin DOF).
Now the 6DII has improved over the 6DI but the focus points coverage is quite centered, making it harder to use a good focus point on, say, the 'rule of 3rds line'. This implies that recompose might still be required (or cropping of course).

I was wondering if people here had good or bad experiences using this or a similar setup. I do see perfect shots using a 6D + 85 1.4 but now I doubt if it would be better to look for a 5DIII instead of a 6DII.
Are these succes pictures 'one out of a 1000 shots' or what.

Thanks already for any (useful) comments :)




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Patbil10
Senior Member
Joined Apr 2014
Aylmer, Quebec
Jun 29, 2017 10:15 |  #2

I wouldn't be afraid of using the 6D with fast glass. I had a 6D and no issues using the outer focus points. You can focus and recompose, just make sure you repeat the process 3-4 times to make sure you get the shot. The below shot was taken using an outer focus point...

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7572/26880954104_6d213d48b2_c.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/GXnV​8W] (external link)untitled-2121 (external link) by Patrick Bilodeau (external link), on Flickr

Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon EOS M5, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II,Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro, Sigma 35mm Art, Tamron SP 85mm f/1.8, EF-M 22mm f/2, Canon ef-m 15-45, Rokinon 14mm f2.8 and other stuff...

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battletone
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Joined Sep 2009
Post has been last edited 3 months ago by battletone. 3 edits done in total.
Jun 29, 2017 21:51 |  #3

It depends. I had a 6D for 3 years. Just sold it and am ordering a 5D4. The 6D2 has more concentrated points, but they are going to be better than the original 6D just in that the 6D was a diamond of points, the 6D2 is a full rectangle of them. The original had nothing in the true area of the rule of thirds. The 6d2 is at least near it. A minor recompose is better than using center point and then totally shifting.
All that said, shooting a 50 1.2 wide open hand held is not doable with focus/recompose unless you have some working distance. Even 1.4 and 1.8 is small, but it's just a matter of learning to do it and accepting a certain amount of misses. But getting the cross type points out like the 6D2 will be worth the upgrade if you really want to shoot wide open on a 1.4 with confidence.


Cameras: 5D Mark IV, EOS 3, Elan 7
Lenses:15mm 2.8 fisheye, 16-35mm 2.8L II, 50mm 1.2L, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L, 70-200L II IS
Tripod: Gitzo GT2531, Arca-Swiss Z1, RRS PC-LR
Lights: Photogenic PL1250 x2, 1500SL x1, Canon 580ex, YN 568ex II

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Silver-Halide
Senior Member
Joined Jan 2015
Jun 29, 2017 23:55 |  #4

You could also try using the DPAF function and touching the screen.


Echoes in Eternity LLC | Tucson and Southern Arizona Wedding Photographer (external link)

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TheRealOlf
THREAD ­ STARTER
Hatchling
8 posts
Joined Jun 2017
Post has been edited 3 months ago by TheRealOlf.
Jun 30, 2017 00:43 |  #5

Patbil10 wrote in post #18389754 (external link)
I wouldn't be afraid of using the 6D with fast glass. I had a 6D and no issues using the outer focus points. You can focus and recompose, just make sure you repeat the process 3-4 times to make sure you get the shot. The below shot was taken using an outer focus point...
QUOTED IMAGE
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/GXnV​8W] (external link)untitled-2121 (external link) by Patrick Bilodeau (external link), on Flickr

If I may ask, which were your key points deciding to move toward 5DIV instead of waiting for 6DII.

battletone wrote in post #18390369 (external link)
It depends. I had a 6D for 3 years. Just sold it and am ordering a 5D4. The 6D2 has more concentrated points, but they are going to be better than the original 6D just in that the 6D was a diamond of points, the 6D2 is a full rectangle of them. The original had nothing in the true area of the rule of thirds. The 6d2 is at least near it. A minor recompose is better than using center point and then totally shifting.
All that said, shooting a 50 1.2 wide open hand held is not doable with focus/recompose unless you have some working distance. Even 1.4 and 1.8 is small, but it's just a matter of learning to do it and accepting a certain amount of misses. But getting the cross type points out like the 6D2 will be worth the upgrade if you really want to shoot wide open on a 1.4 with confidence.

You ordered a 5DIV, in your opinion, coming from the 40D would it be a reasonable choice thinking about a 5DIII instead of a 6DII.
All on all it feels like the 6D series is just lacking some features (for me personally I am really afraid for the AF spread, since investing in an expensive 85 1.4..) which forces you to quickly want to upgrade to the just even higher placed 5D series.

battletone wrote in post #18390369 (external link)
It depends. I had a 6D for 3 years. Just sold it and am ordering a 5D4. The 6D2 has more concentrated points, but they are going to be better than the original 6D just in that the 6D was a diamond of points, the 6D2 is a full rectangle of them. The original had nothing in the true area of the rule of thirds. The 6d2 is at least near it. A minor recompose is better than using center point and then totally shifting.
All that said, shooting a 50 1.2 wide open hand held is not doable with focus/recompose unless you have some working distance. Even 1.4 and 1.8 is small, but it's just a matter of learning to do it and accepting a certain amount of misses. But getting the cross type points out like the 6D2 will be worth the upgrade if you really want to shoot wide open on a 1.4 with confidence.

You switched to the 5D series, did you think about the 5DIII also? Was there a good reason for you to not wait for a possible 6DII?
Like my reply to battletone, I am a bit worried being very happy with the 6DII, initially at least.. but feel the need to take it again to a higher level on a short term. That is not what I want.
In that case I might seriously think about getting a 5DIII probably.

Silver-Halide wrote in post #18390470 (external link)
You could also try using the DPAF function and touching the screen.

Thank you, this exactly touches my concern.. 'You could also try' feels so much like: you can be lucky but.. -?




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aezoss
Senior Member
Joined Nov 2013
Jun 30, 2017 02:27 |  #6

Friend's dog, 6D + 50 1.2. No crop.

My 2c is in the '6d2 is here' thread.

Lee

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TheRealOlf
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Hatchling
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Joined Jun 2017
Jun 30, 2017 02:53 |  #7

aezoss wrote in post #18390558 (external link)
Friend's dog, 6D + 50 1.2. No crop.

My 2c is in the '6d2 is here' thread.

Lee

thumbnailHosted photo: posted by aezoss in
./showthread.php?p=183​90558&i=i3331475
forum: Camera Vs. Camera
thumbnailHosted photo: posted by aezoss in
./showthread.php?p=183​90558&i=i41459068
forum: Camera Vs. Camera

Thank you Lee.
Valueable comments.
I understand that for portraits eye focussing the 6D would be painful but 6D2 has an improvement by adding more and cross type focus points a bit more near the 'thirds' lines.




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aezoss
Senior Member
Joined Nov 2013
Post has been last edited 2 months ago by aezoss. 2 edits done in total.
Jun 30, 2017 03:10 |  #8

TheRealOlf wrote in post #18390564 (external link)
I understand that for portraits eye focussing the 6D would be painful but 6D2 has an improvement by adding more and cross type focus points a bit more near the 'thirds' lines.

Not painful necessarily. You can learn to work with it.

I lose 10-15% at f2 or wider in servo on a moving subject. In one shot, maybe 5%. More likely the lens than the camera. Most lost shots come down to me or the subject moving.

If you have the option, rent the 6D2 for a weekend when it becomes available. You might want to wait a couple of months before buying. The initial production run may have bugs and copy variation. Once manufacturing gets the kinks worked out you're more likely to get a good unit.

Lee




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TheRealOlf
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Hatchling
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Jun 30, 2017 05:46 |  #9

aezoss wrote in post #18390569 (external link)
Not painful necessarily. You can learn to work with it.

My kid. Third of four consecutive shots. All in focus using peripheral AF points. Cropped for composition. Default sharpening in LR. No NR. AF point on (camera) left eye.

Lousy picture, bad angle and I need to fix the processing but I think it shows the 6D works fine with fast primes. After tuning AF microadjustment the 50 1.2 has been excellent on my 6D. 85 1.8 is consistently good as well.

I lose 10-15% at f2 or wider in servo on a moving subject. In one shot, maybe 5%. More likely the lens than the camera. Most lost shots come down to me or the subject moving.

If you have the option, rent the 6D2 for a weekend when it becomes available. You might want to wait a couple of months before buying. The initial production run may have bugs and copy variation. Once manufacturing gets the kinks worked out you're more likely to get a good unit.

Lee

thumbnailHosted photo: posted by aezoss in
./showthread.php?p=183​90569&i=i77629159
forum: Camera Vs. Camera

That shot was spot on, these shots tell the greatness of primes.
Excellent piece of advice, thanks again.




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battletone
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Post has been last edited 3 months ago by battletone. 3 edits done in total.
Jun 30, 2017 18:06 as a reply to TheRealOlf's post |  #10

I never once gave the 5D3 a thought after owning the 6D. Reason was that it was long in the tooth and I wasn't going to go backwards in sensor tech. The 6D has a better sensor than the 5D3. Now 6D2/5D4 is harder because I wanted newer, but anything at all better than the original 6D is all I need to pass any shortcomings I ever ran into on the 6D. I rarely ever hit barriers with its limitations. So I don't really view that as a factor anymore.
Would I get a 5D3 or a 6D2 at this point if I didn't have the option of the 5D4?
6D2 no question. Why? The 5D3 sensor will not be able to compete realistically. When the tests come out I am sure you will find the shadow recovery is better than even the 5D4, but more importantly, it'll be better than the 6D or the 5D3. Also, I don't need dual card slots so I don't give that much weight. I shot film, so lost images are part of life. Plus it's rare. Don't get me wrong, it's nice, but unless there is a wedding involved generally no one dies. Next is the focus points- they are not amazing but they are not bad on either. I don't know a 40D, but I had a 7D2 and points were out to the edges almost. Every full frame is a let down to me after that, so a little extra loss isn't the end of the world since I don't view any full frame as good coverage anyways. And again, I shot film, and still do sometimes on 35mm, and that was archaic focus rivaled only by the original 6D in coverage, but was at least surpassed in the -3EV center point.
Oh ya, the 5D3 doesn't do -3EV on the center point if I recall. That's nice. It's possible the 6D2 does that on all 45, if not at least the center.


Cameras: 5D Mark IV, EOS 3, Elan 7
Lenses:15mm 2.8 fisheye, 16-35mm 2.8L II, 50mm 1.2L, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L, 70-200L II IS
Tripod: Gitzo GT2531, Arca-Swiss Z1, RRS PC-LR
Lights: Photogenic PL1250 x2, 1500SL x1, Canon 580ex, YN 568ex II

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bobbyz
Cream of the Crop
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Joined Nov 2007
Bay Area, CA
Post has been last edited 3 months ago by bobbyz. 2 edits done in total.
Jun 30, 2017 21:48 |  #11

I for one hated 6d outer points. 6d better sensor blah blah blah. Have had all of them at the same time. AF more important that anything else for me. In this age Sony eye detect is the thing and the best sensor IMHO. Wish I liked their cameras more.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

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davesrose
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Atlanta, GA
Post has been last edited 3 months ago by davesrose. 3 edits done in total.
Jun 30, 2017 22:25 |  #12

lol about 6D having a better sensor then the 5D3: way over hyped. When I was using the 5Dc, I was finding the lack of focus points limiting. You do find ways around it, but you can't always get focus with focus/recompose methods in shallow DOF. With my 5Dc, I even had a focus prism screen to do some manual focusing. Now with the 5D3, I feel confident with having enough AF points from which to chose from. I've just found a link that does go over the features of the 6D2...looks like it does have a nice coverage of AF points. One minor caveat about FF systems is that the AF points don't cover as much of the frame as some high end crop systems (like the 7D2). Looking at the below videos, it looks like the 6D2 will have a good AF coverage for portrait photography. Looks like it's still limited compared to the 5D series for AF tracking, but that's a different application.

6D2 (external link)


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
smugmug (external link)

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Patbil10
Senior Member
Joined Apr 2014
Aylmer, Quebec
Jul 04, 2017 06:37 |  #13

TheRealOlf wrote in post #18390507 (external link)
If I may ask, which were your key points deciding to move toward 5DIV instead of waiting for 6DII.

I simply didn't want to wait. I also suspected that the single SD card would remain, which doesn't cut it when I do occasional paid gig. I also like the extra stop gained by faster max shutter speed. Other than that, the image quality should be identical. :-)


Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon EOS M5, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II,Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro, Sigma 35mm Art, Tamron SP 85mm f/1.8, EF-M 22mm f/2, Canon ef-m 15-45, Rokinon 14mm f2.8 and other stuff...

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artsf
Member
Joined Sep 2015
Jul 09, 2017 07:18 |  #14

6dii has DPAF with face detect which will help when focus points spread is limiting. Depending on the application, it may still be an issue because DPAF focus points are huge. AI Servo with iTR should also be much better on 6dii.




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TheRealOlf
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Hatchling
8 posts
Joined Jun 2017
Jul 18, 2017 16:59 |  #15

Thanks all.
Just to let you know, in the end I decided to go for the 5D4.. Very solide upgrade, regarding weight not even such a big difference to my good old 40D. Used the 40D with lots of pleasure for about 9 years so 5D4 for the next years ;-)a
However, stille have to get used to the focusspeed of the 85 art.. Could be faster in case of little ones.... And the DOF on FF :oops:




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