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Thread started 06 Jul 2017 (Thursday) 12:46
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Auto ISO? What's your cap?

 
davesrose
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Jul 07, 2017 14:01 |  #16

Most of the time I don't use auto ISO. Like Tom, I usually like to configure a low ISO and then bump up if needed. I haven't enabled ISO expansion, since it does nothing with IQ and haven't had a need for the exposure reasons. I have the auto ISO range set to the default: 100-12800 on 5D3, 100-6400 on 7D2. I'll enable auto ISO for low light action shots. Had it always on when I was taking photos at the aquarium.


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Ascenta
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Jul 07, 2017 14:05 |  #17

Bassat wrote in post #18395767 (external link)
Raw and ETTR are almost essential.

I liked ETTR with my 7DII in many situations, so I carried that on with my 5D4. But after a few session, I noticed I was blowing out a lot of whites, even people's faces when outdoors. I see several people mentioned exposing to the LEFT, then bringing up the shadows. I may start playing around with this over the next few days. Of course it will depend on the venue (bright sky vs. dark trees in the shadow for example)




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davesrose
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Jul 07, 2017 15:22 as a reply to Ascenta's post |  #18

I ETTRed a lot with the 5Dc. Coming from that to the 5D3, it was night and day difference. Don't ETTR much these days. I can see the banding and noise if I'm cranking the shadow recovery up, but I don't do much of that. If there's a scene that's utilizing the camera's full dynamic range, I'll try to be discerning in getting a full exposure range without clipping highlights and shadows. You can re-affirm highlights aren't going to be blown by having your picture style set to neutral, have highlight tone priority enabled, as well as highlight alert enabled. I think the latest improvements with Canon's low ISO DR gives you more flexibility with your post processing.


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TeamSpeed
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Jul 07, 2017 15:43 as a reply to Ascenta's post |  #19

The 5D4 is a dream to work with, you really should try more on the 5D4 than ISO 3200.

I will shoot stage shots, and one of the lady's daughters came around while set up. The 5D4 shot up to ISO 16000. With a couple runs of Noiseware and USM/Smart Sharpen, the end result is actually quite good for print, and still has detail enough to make out the peach fuzz on her lip. First pic is a resized image right from raw out of DPP, and 2nd shows before/after with a few filter steps in Photoshop. There is a bit of banding, but this was nearly pitch black, and I was running HTP (google Canon HTP for more info) as well which might have had a hand in this, but I am unsure.

Those that set artificially low ISO limits either aren't shooting anything very challenging exposure-wise, or perhaps aren't honing their post processing skills/tools, or just don't have the patience/desire to learn post processing. Not that there is anything wrong with any one of the 3 situations, but if you are willing to learn, read, and ask questions, you could very well extend what you are able to shoot and get better results for the effort.

I do very little ETTR now with the 5D4. I think with the newest gen sensor, we are going to see much less ETTR discussions. :) In fact, I have started to see more ETTL (to the left) discussions.

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davesrose
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by davesrose.
Jul 07, 2017 15:58 as a reply to TeamSpeed's post |  #20

IMO, there's quite a bit of chroma noise in that example. It is a tough scene since there is an extreme between light and dark (and DR is very limited at that ISO). The midtones of the girl are a vibrant red from the lighting...you can see quite a bit of breakup in her arm. What's acceptable for print depends on what the output size is. If we're pixel peeping, the examples I've seen comparing the 5D3 vs 5D4's high ISO are incremental. Where there's a true upgrade with the 5D4 is quite a difference in low ISO DR.


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TeamSpeed
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Jul 07, 2017 16:03 |  #21

davesrose wrote in post #18396517 (external link)
IMO, there's quite a bit of chroma noise in that example. It is a tough scene since there is an extreme between light and dark (and DR is very limited at that ISO). The midtones of the girl are a vibrant red from the lighting...you can see quite a bit of breakup in her arm. If we're pixel peeping, the examples I've seen comparing the 5D3 vs 5D4's high ISO are incremental. Where there's a true upgrade with the 5D4 is quite a difference in low ISO DR.

That is because we have LED lighting and some spot lights as the lighting was being set up, and only a few colors in the spectrum were present. So with the push in exposure to even get the girl exposed at all with the colored lights that were on, I expect to get those results, it is the same for any concert I have shot with LED base and ceiling lights.

I have shot extensively with the 5D3 and 5D4, and for low light sports, for example, the 5D4 is just better at higher ISOs, in the sense it is more dependable and consistent with the results. There is simply less work needed in a majority of what I shoot. Even at the higher ISOs, there is less floor noise to deal with in the shadows. It might seem trivial below on the graph, but when dealing with hundreds of photos per shoot and needing less processing, every little bit helps.

In any case, the TS has a 5D4, so this was more for him to consider higher ISOs. The 2nd image below is what the scene really looked like from an AWB-White mode, very blue as those were the lights that were prevalent. When resetting the WB to try to get something a bit less blue, the magentas had to be pushed very hard. I could have left the WB push alone and took what I had, but I didn't want to process a smurf. :D

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davesrose
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by davesrose.
Jul 07, 2017 16:15 as a reply to TeamSpeed's post |  #22

Yes, as stated I thought you were working with extremely tough conditions...applaud the effort, but just pointing out the apparent visual limitations.

The TS stated his apprehension about coming from crop cameras with an ETTR workflow, and how he's finding it different with FF (not just high ISO workflows). IMO with exposure workflow isn't too much of a difference between the 5D3 vs 5D4. The 5D4 offers more versatility in post with shadow recovery.

edit: see you've edited your post quite a bit...didn't mean any offense: again, can see how tough of an environment you were in. RE: your graph: I think the dynamic range differences are better for showing the improved sensor tech with the 5D4 vs 5D3:

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Talley
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Jul 07, 2017 16:17 |  #23

I use auto ISO alot and mine is set to work up to the 32,000 limit. One less thing to worry about. Images turn out fine and I rarely go that high anyway (or I should say the automatic iso never goes that high).


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TeamSpeed
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Jul 07, 2017 16:20 as a reply to davesrose's post |  #24

Unfortunately though with the 5D3, auto-ISO is implemented poorly. :(


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davesrose
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by davesrose.
Jul 07, 2017 16:33 as a reply to TeamSpeed's post |  #25

How so? You do work with high ISO more then I. The times I've used auto ISO on my 5D3 was when I was focusing on shutter speed in a low light environment. It seemed to do OK. Just looking at my aquarium pictures now....the auto ISO was generally defaulting to 2500. Have made a few nice 13x19 prints from them.


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TeamSpeed
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Jul 07, 2017 17:08 |  #26

davesrose wrote in post #18396551 (external link)
How so? You do work with high ISO more then I. The times I've used auto ISO on my 5D3 was when I was focusing on shutter speed in a low light environment. It seemed to do OK. Just looking at my aquarium pictures now....the auto ISO was generally defaulting to 2500. Have made a few nice 13x19 prints from them.

The 1DX series, the 5D4 and 7D2 allow exposure compensation to be set accordingly while in Manual mode with auto ISO. This is very handy and something Nikon and others had years prior. Up to this point, Canon has implemented various stages of auto ISO, but those implementations were flawed until recently.


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davesrose
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Jul 07, 2017 17:48 as a reply to TeamSpeed's post |  #27

Oh, OK nice to know the 5D4 has exposure compensation in manual. I've never used it myself since I'll just adjust within the light meter in manual. Coming from film and such, I'm always hesitant about getting into high ISO. Can see how you can push it quite high now, but there still are limitations for trying to print large. Reviewing the photos I have had auto ISO with the 5D3, it does seem to be a bit more conservative then what I had thought.


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TreeburnerCT
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Jul 07, 2017 18:42 |  #28

I don't typically use auto ISO being a predominantly manual mode shooter, but I'm comfortable shooting at 6400 on my 7D2, and even 12800 if necessary. Yes there is significant noise in the shot, but if it's between a noisy shot and no shot at all I'll take the noisy one any day.

-Joe


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Bassat
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Jul 07, 2017 22:13 |  #29

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18396569 (external link)
The 1DX series, the 5D4 and 7D2 allow exposure compensation to be set accordingly while in Manual mode with auto ISO. This is very handy and something Nikon and others had years prior. Up to this point, Canon has implemented various stages of auto ISO, but those implementations were flawed until recently.

The 80D does EC in Manual mode with auto-ISO. While I'm on the 80D, it doesn't seem to need ETTR, either.


Tom

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Tom ­ Reichner
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Jul 08, 2017 09:28 |  #30

TreeburnerCT wrote in post #18396625 (external link)
Yes there is significant noise in the shot, but if it's between a noisy shot and no shot at all I'll take the noisy one any day.

-Joe

Hey, Joe

I think what you said here does a great job of summing up the reason behind our individual ISO caps.

I am the opposite of you in this regard - if a photo is going to have noise grain in it, then I would just as soon not bother taking the photo. . We all have different reasons for taking photos in the first place, and our reasons will have a major affect on what ISO we are willing to use and what conditions we are willing to shoot in.

.


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Auto ISO? What's your cap?
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