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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera
Thread started 08 May 2017 (Monday) 20:07
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ecka
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Jul 30, 2017 04:41 |  #121

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TeamSpeed
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Jul 30, 2017 06:09 as a reply to ecka's post |  #122

Definitely, in fact you probably should have started with that as your lead in so we would know what dribble was about to follow. ;)


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DSMS
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by DSMS.
Jul 30, 2017 13:30 |  #123
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ecka wrote in post #18414344 (external link)
That's not what I said. Excellent work is done not only by professionals.
Reliable cameras have dual card slots, weather resistance, higher speed, more durability, state of the art technology, etc.

Dude...enough...you've shot yourself in the foot ALREADY...don't keep doing it...

ecka wrote in post #18414344 (external link)
Yeah, you can use Rebels, of course. You can show off like "look at me, I'm a professional and camera doesn't matter, only skills matter ..." blah blah blah, until it fails, or should I say - you fail. And here goes your professionalism out of the window.

It is logical to use the best suited equipment. That's exactly my point. Rebels are not the best tools for professionals. Just don't make bad choices. Because it's either the camera is a tool, or you are. And that's life.

Have you EVER worked in a professional capacity, and, if so, did you have the top of the range, state of the art gear on day 1?

Not using a 1D, or 5DIV, or a 5DSR or...hang on, what's a the most professional canon body nowadays?




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ecka
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Jul 30, 2017 15:30 |  #124

DSMS wrote in post #18414730 (external link)
Dude...enough...you've shot yourself in the foot ALREADY...don't keep doing it...
Have you EVER worked in a professional capacity, and, if so, did you have the top of the range, state of the art gear on day 1?

Why not? You can just rent it. I don't shoot professionally, but I've owned and used 7Ds, 5D2s, 6D ... There's a difference between a tool and a toy. And I've seen morons with toys failing and ruining events they've been hired to shoot. Whining about stuff like - ran out of batteries, all 3 of them; SD card died; "toys" got wet and died; it was too dark I didn't catch that; pictures are crap because your party was crap and nobody would have done better ... - doesn't justify anything.

Not using a 1D, or 5DIV, or a 5DSR or...hang on, what's a the most professional canon body nowadays?

Yeah, good luck, dilettante ;)


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TeamSpeed
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by TeamSpeed.
Jul 30, 2017 15:45 |  #125

I am paid for my work, I and use a 5D4 and 7D2. I have used 1D series for years, but these days, there isn't much to be offered over the mid-range. I don't need 10+fps, nor weather sealing, because the most my equipment might see is a slight drizzle, and the mid-range are sealed as well as the old 1D series. I don't let the equipment, Canon marketing, or forum members (especially those not shooting professionally) define me. I leave that for my clients. :)


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EverydayGetaway
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by EverydayGetaway.
Jul 30, 2017 18:08 |  #126

ecka wrote in post #18414802 (external link)
Why not? You can just rent it. I don't shoot professionally, but I've owned and used 7Ds, 5D2s, 6D ... There's a difference between a tool and a toy. And I've seen morons with toys failing and ruining events they've been hired to shoot. Whining about stuff like - ran out of batteries, all 3 of them; SD card died; "toys" got wet and died; it was too dark I didn't catch that; pictures are crap because your party was crap and nobody would have done better ... - doesn't justify anything.

Yeah, good luck, dilettante ;)

Again, professionals know their gear. They know how to get the results they need from it, and they know how to protect/maintain it to ensure a good final product to their clients. It doesn't mean diddly squat if they're using Rebels or Phase One's, if they know their gear and the client knows their work that's all their is to it.

I've done paid shoots with cameras as lowly as the original EOS M (as a secondary camera) and had no problems. I went in knowing my gear, knowing what I could and couldn't expect from it and had no problems delivering quality results to the client.


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DSMS
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Jul 30, 2017 19:19 |  #127
banned

Look, a professional is just that; a professional.

The equipment they use doesn't make them a professional, what they do with the equipment they use makes them a professional!

If a 1D was more "professional" than a 7DII, then a beginner who used a 1D would be more professional than a 'pro' who was using a 7DII...um, NO!




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TeamSpeed
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Post has been last edited 5 months ago by TeamSpeed. 3 edits done in total.
Jul 30, 2017 19:31 |  #128

The 7D2 did well for me, even at ISO 12800, but I needed wider FOV, so the 70-200 on the FF was just better for where I am situated.

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-20152016/Feb-28-2016/i-NMK4TDM/0/861fe952/X3/216A5049-X3.jpg

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-20152016/Feb-28-2016/i-rhxz293/0/94f1f8f4/X3/216A5045-X3.jpg

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-20152016/Feb-25-2016/i-gnMsX2r/1/45402668/X2/216A4682-X2.jpg

I still reserve the FF for the senior portraits, I haven't had the nerve to do my portraiture with the crop, although it is up to the task. I have the FF around, so why not just use it? :) It's not a 1DX or 1DX2 though, so perhaps I should be refunding my clients? :D

(This gal was my biggest challenge yet, she was very shy and introverted, it was tough to coax a smile out of her, a skill I need to develop more, vs worrying about whether I have a 1D series or not)

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/The-Senior-Experience/Katelyn-Senior-Shoot/i-RMmGpSN/1/24588400/X2/5P1B1031bw-X2.jpg

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peeaanuut
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Jul 30, 2017 22:53 |  #129

I thought the only thing that made you a pro was getting paid.


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Archibald
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Jul 30, 2017 23:31 |  #130

peeaanuut wrote in post #18415114 (external link)
I thought the only thing that made you a pro was getting paid.

Anyone who cares can look up the definition.
"... (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime."


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ecka
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Jul 31, 2017 05:42 |  #131

God save us from such "professionals" :D


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drmaxx
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Jul 31, 2017 06:04 |  #132

Archibald wrote in post #18415128 (external link)
Anyone who cares can look up the definition.
"... (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime."

This doesn't capture the essence of what most people understand under professional. There are two important aspects: A) Making money AND B) beeing an expert. And when I say expert, I mean that in a good sense where experts know their skills and trade intimately and often intuitively, relaying strongly on experience and without having to ponder too much for most activities. This includes knowing exactly how to create a specific look or feel with what ever tool needed / required.


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Bassat
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by Bassat.
Jul 31, 2017 06:23 |  #133

drmaxx wrote in post #18415237 (external link)
This doesn't capture the essence of what most people understand under professional. There are two important aspects: A) Making money AND B) beeing an expert. And when I say expert, I mean that in a good sense where experts know their skills and trade intimately and often intuitively, relaying strongly on experience and without having to ponder too much for most activities. This includes knowing exactly how to create a specific look or feel with what ever tool needed / required.

I respectfully disagree. Way too many 'professionals' in a variety of fields have no idea what the word means. The 'professional' who shot my wedding/reception (1991) had one camera, one flash, and two zoom lenses. He blew a gasket and threatened to sue me when I refused to pay for the $#!T he produced.

My dad paid a 'professional' to rebuild the engine in his truck (it didn't need it). My brother and I took a pile of pistons and valves and turned it back into a functioning engine when the 'professional' couldn't figure it out.

Things like Angie's List, Home Advisor, and Rate Your Professor exist because professionals come in all skill levels. We NEED a way to rate them outside of the fact that they hung out a shingle. The consumer is (should be?) well aware that 'professional' means next to nothing a good portion of the time.

Full disclosure: I am a professional. Big deal. What does that tell you about my qualifications?


Tom

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EverydayGetaway
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Jul 31, 2017 06:41 |  #134

Bassat wrote in post #18415249 (external link)
I respectfully disagree. Way too many 'professionals' in a variety of fields have no idea what the word means. The 'professional' who shot my wedding/reception (1991) had one camera, one flash, and two zoom lenses. He blew a gasket and threatened to sue me when I refused to pay for the $#!T he produced.

My dad paid a 'professional' to rebuild the engine in his truck (it didn't need it). My brother and I took a pile of pistons and valves and turned it back into a functioning engine when the 'professional' couldn't figure it out.

Things like Angie's List, Home Advisor, and Rate Your Professor exist because professionals come in all skill levels. We NEED a way to rate them outside of the fact that they hung out a shingle. The consumer is (should be?) well aware that 'professional' means next to nothing a good portion of the time.

Full disclosure: I am a professional. Big deal. What does that tell you about my qualifications?

I think you missed his point. His description of a professional is exactly what I look for when I'm seeking a professional.

The great thing about a free market is that you (the client/consumer) have the power to choose the professional you want to hire, if you find one "professional" isn't much of one then you have the power to find another who is.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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Bassat
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Jul 31, 2017 06:47 |  #135

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18415256 (external link)
I think you missed his point. His description of a professional is exactly what I look for when I'm seeking a professional.

The great thing about a free market is that you (the client/consumer) have the power to choose the professional you want to hire, if you find one "professional" isn't much of one then you have the power to find another who is.

What you said in the second paragraph agrees perfectly with what I said. Which was, 'the term professional means next to nothing'. If you have to evaluate prospective purveyors of services, who collectively call themselves professionals, the term itself is irrelevant.


Tom

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