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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands
Thread started 03 Nov 2016 (Thursday) 15:18
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Struggling on a mirrorless camera.. Which one?

 
AlanU
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Joined Feb 2008
Vancouver, BC
Post has been edited 7 months ago by AlanU.
Apr 25, 2017 02:55 |  #196

bobbyz wrote in post #18337424 (external link)
Didn't mean it that way but if you read some comments by some folks it is mainly if you don't shoot FF you basically don't know what you doing. It is always DoF and 6400+ ISO.

I think this day and age things have changed drastically. Back in the day not long ago it was a battle of Nikon shooters vs Canon shooters. Now the photography world discusses Mirrorless vs DSLR.

Just think how much crop sensors have changed!!! If you shot with a 40D or 50D and compare it to an 80D there's a big change in how the newer sensor puts "meat on the bones" with more rich looking files with more tonal depth. Older gen crop sensors appeared more flatter in comparison. Now Fuji and Sony are hitting the streets with great Mirrorless bodies that are almost as good in AF of a DSLR.

Seems more people are getting more "educated" and they know what they want in their gear. Now that crop sensor image quality is so good these days the "jump" for full frame isn't anything to brag about compared to many years ago.

Today I took my X-T2 out with a large crew of preschoolers to a class field trip. The image quality was truly fantastic shooting with the 10-24mm UWA and 16mm f/1.4. I'm challenging myself to see if I can use the fuji as a primary system. I absolutely find the fuji files to be extremely easy on the eyes and pleasant. Rich lush files great for viewing on an IPS panel screen or print!!! I will have to say the video capabilities of the fuji non graded is remarkable.

One thing I would say is that I still feel I can have great "3d pop" to the image shooting full frame with an f/2.8 zoom without throwing on primes. I guess my point is that there is some advantages of greater versatility in a fast zoom lens on a full frame. I cannot justify purchasing a $5k CDN Canon 5dmk4 but that camera would provide the full frame DOF and 12800+ ISO would provide extremely clean images effortlessly for incredibly versatility. Throwing on a 24-70L f/2.8 MK2 on a full frame still shocks me in how razor sharp and pop a zoom lens can provide. Some people may not ever need high iso performance but having a Camera capable of extremely clean images and shallower dof is a nice bonus for some users demanding that type of performance. Everyone's needs is different....

I'm not a sony shooter but I'm extremely curious if Sony mirrorless have any issues locking on AF in a dark venue like a dance floor during a reception. Fuji has still not met my needs in locking AF in low light. Since I'm a Canon shooter I've never ever questioned my 5dmk2 or 5dmk3 in locking AF in darkness while having a Canon external flash on shoe. So far with my Fuji with EF-X500 I certainly can say the fuji is not even up to my standards for that type of low light shooting situation. Even during casual outings I've found the red indication "NO AF" which I miss shots. I've always locked on virtually anything in almost pitch darkness while using focus assist on my Canon flash and canon bodies.

This is not disrespecting Fuji. Everyone has different shooting methods and needs/wants. I'm enjoying the fuji world for a high percentage of my shooting but I'm also fully benefiting keeping my heavier Canon bodies too.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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328iGuy
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Ottawa | Ontario
Post has been edited 7 months ago by 328iGuy.
Apr 28, 2017 09:43 |  #197

I made the switch a few months ago from Canon 5D3 + L Glass to all Fuji X-T2 and glass and I haven't looked back yet.

Just an example, low light concert shooting with the X-T2 + 50-140 last weekend:

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2906/33378914773_da080490b0_c.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/SRzE​sz] (external link)"Said Nobody Ever" (external link) by Matthew Perry (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2854/33431715023_8990cfd5a3_c.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/SWfh​8H] (external link)Old Dominion (external link) by Matthew Perry (external link), on Flickr

Canon 5D3 | 16-35L III | 24-70L II | 70-200LII | 300 2.8 L

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Canon-Chas
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Aug 05, 2017 07:42 |  #198

I'm thinking about the Panasonic GH5 to use with Canon prime lenses+metabones speedbooster, unless Canon have a silent shutter option coming soon ?

The sole reason is for those difficult wildlife shots where a silent shutter is needed.

Has anyone tried or considered this option?

Thanks


Chas
http://www.wildfeather​s.co.ukexternal link

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AlanU
Cream of the Crop
Joined Feb 2008
Vancouver, BC
Aug 05, 2017 13:11 |  #199

Canon-Chas wrote in post #18419746 (external link)
I'm thinking about the Panasonic GH5 to use with Canon prime lenses+metabones speedbooster, unless Canon have a silent shutter option coming soon ?

The sole reason is for those difficult wildlife shots where a silent shutter is needed.

Has anyone tried or considered this option?

Thanks

Seems the budget minded wildlife photographer is appreciating M43 system due to 2x crop factor with native M43 lenses. Most guys I know cannot go that route and pay the $$$$$$$ (Nikon & Canon shooters) with super long telephotos.

My concern for you is tracking with a speedbooster on a non native system. I'm no expert in that department......


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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mdvaden
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Beaverton, Oregon
Nov 26, 2017 01:47 |  #200

Strick wrote in post #18175216 (external link)
As a true back up in a mirrorless I would look at the EOS M5. Seamless adaptation of the EOS lenses as well as flashes. Similar "look" to the files that you are used to from Canon.

Other than that I would look at Olympus for size, superb glass, excellent feature set and great IQ

Just bought a Canon M5 refurbished to add with my 5D Mk iii and 5DS ..

I'm already getting nice enough images with my FF Canons that any hype about Sony's new stuff is not incentive. The menu and functionality of the M5 is wonderful. I'm using the native Canon adapter that came with it.

The M5 is so good, I think I could shoot wedding and portrait work with it, but will keep it for backup or for 3 bodies with 3 lenses at-hand.

I got the smaller f/4 70-200 for it too, to lighten my hiking backpack.


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bobbyz
Cream of the Crop
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Joined Nov 2007
Bay Area, CA
Nov 26, 2017 09:36 |  #201

Sony hype or not but man that eye detect is so nice. Wish other cameras had that including Canon. My Fuji has it but nowhere near Sony. And Sony sensors are quite nice. I can see using a 3 yr old Sony sensor in my GFX.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

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mdvaden
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Post has been last edited 21 days ago by mdvaden. 3 edits done in total.
Nov 26, 2017 10:47 |  #202

bobbyz wrote in post #18504345 (external link)
Sony hype or not but man that eye detect is so nice. Wish other cameras had that including Canon. My Fuji has it but nowhere near Sony. And Sony sensors are quite nice. I can see using a 3 yr old Sony sensor in my GFX.


It's an interesting gadget for gear heads and a few with selective needs. But for the studio, portraits and photography, it would get as little use as the intervalometer in my Canon 5DS. It reminds me of the auto door lock in my van, but doesn't unlock when I park again. My wife likes the feature, but for me it's more or less useless.

Since I still have to compose the eye and the rest of the frame, plus other humans and eyes, I find the pre-existing focus systems plenty adequate. Usually, I set depth of field so that face detection would be sufficient. That feature is already in my camera, but I don't use it. That could change though down the road. Early into 2018, I will try experimenting more with the detection feature and give it another look.


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rantercsr
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Nov 26, 2017 10:55 as a reply to mdvaden's post |  #203

Have you used sonys eye af before ?

I ask because most that I've heard , even if they have absolutely no intentions on getting a sony camera will usually acknowledge that sonys eye af is very useful for portraits once they actually get a hands on experience with it ..and see how it behaves in real world


Canon 5DIV*T4i/10-18/24 f2.8/ 35 f1.4Lii /50 f1.4/ 85 f1.8
Pentax k1000* k50 f2*135 f2.
Fuji XT2 // 23 f2/ 50 f2
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bobbyz
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Nov 26, 2017 11:10 |  #204

Try shooting model in studio who is not stationary and then you realize how good face/eye detects are. I thought they were gimmick, just like tilt LCD screens. I say they are the two best things in cameras for someone shooting portraits unless you are "set to f8 and forget it" type of person, which is not wrong for lot of studio type of shooting requiring more DoF. But I prefer shallower DoF even in studio shots as I am shooting mostly one person. Even if I am not shooting f2.8 in studio being able to put AF point on eye automatically is so nice.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

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mdvaden
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Post has been last edited 21 days ago by mdvaden. 2 edits done in total.
Nov 26, 2017 11:22 |  #205

bobbyz wrote in post #18504410 (external link)
Try shooting model in studio who is not stationary and then you realize how good face/eye detects are. I thought they were gimmick, just like tilt LCD screens. I say they are the two best things in cameras for someone shooting portraits unless you are "set to f8 and forget it" type of person, which is not wrong for lot of studio type of shooting requiring more DoF. But I prefer shallower DoF even in studio shots as I am shooting mostly one person. Even if I am not shooting f2.8 in studio being able to put AF point on eye automatically is so nice.

For me, giving adequate depth of field to include their garment, shoes and accessories, the depth of field is sufficient that detection wouldn't really help. Excellent portraiture that gets the right angle of face, position of garments, location of shadows, requires a deliberate limitation of movement that more or less negates face detection needs. At least for me.

But a dancer dancing, etc., is more what comes to mind RE eye-detect of face-detect. But even when I've shot ballet dancers as models, depth of field was ample, because a hand going out of focus against backdrop doesn't seem to look good.

There are models who move. But other photographers have models that "follow" ... I think that the photographer shown in this tutorial would by no means require face detect, because his subjects (models) follow. So a photographer could base their settings, gear and final shots on whether their subjects are movers or followers. Or both.



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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Nov 26, 2017 11:56 |  #206

Sony's eye AF is truly outstanding to use, they are way ahead there. It just zooms around the frame following the subject, easy.
(I'm hoping Fuji's next little kaizen update will bring some more of that goodness my way.)


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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mdvaden
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Post has been last edited 19 days ago by mdvaden. 8 edits done in total.
Nov 26, 2017 12:10 |  #207

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18504433 (external link)
Sony's eye AF is truly outstanding to use, they are way ahead there. It just ZOOMS AROUND the frame following the subject, easy.
(I'm hoping Fuji's next little kaizen update will bring some more of that goodness my way.)

Yes, the "zooming around" examples I've seen. And it may work. But do you know of a couple good web page or video links, that shows still photographs at high resolution for every spot the little square zoomed to?

For example, Gary Fong has this few minute video >> https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=F7_Nwq5o9-s (external link)

Shows the zooming around you mentioned. But he doesn't show photos taken, let alone a series. What would be far more useful to watch, is a set of still frames taken using the eye detect at higher resolution. It would make comparison to AI SERVO or Face Detect more practical.

I haven't found a good link sample yet, but if you know of one, please share.

BTW ... in that Gary Fong example at about 2:38 ... he holds down the button for a continuous shoot. Note how we can hear his camera taking photos even though the eye-detect square is over the model's nose as well. So his example shows the A7Riii's feature working somewhat as a face detection in that part.

Actually, if we watch closely to that one, the eye-detect square also rose near the eye brow, and at one point highlighted back to the hair on the left' side of the model's face or head. With or without still frame examples, that part of the video slants somewhat more spray and pray than it does for accuracy. Unless he's set a thick depth of field ... but in that case, even face detect would be of no need.




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rantercsr
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Nov 26, 2017 12:30 |  #208

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18504433 (external link)
Sony's eye AF is truly outstanding to use, they are way ahead there. It just zooms around the frame following the subject, easy.
(I'm hoping Fuji's next little kaizen update will bring some more of that goodness my way.)


Even if fuji only got it as good as the eye af in a6500/a7rii /7sii .. I would be extremely happy!


Canon 5DIV*T4i/10-18/24 f2.8/ 35 f1.4Lii /50 f1.4/ 85 f1.8
Pentax k1000* k50 f2*135 f2.
Fuji XT2 // 23 f2/ 50 f2
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Charlie
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Nov 26, 2017 13:45 |  #209

mdvaden wrote in post #18504437 (external link)
Yes, the "zooming around" examples I've seen. And it may work. But do you know of a couple good web page or video links, that shows still photographs at high resolution for every spot the little square zoomed to?

For example, Gary Fong has this few minute video >> https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=F7_Nwq5o9-s (external link)

Shows the zooming around you mentioned. But he doesn't show photos taken, let alone a series. What would be far more useful to watch, is a set of still frames taken using the eye detect at higher resolution. It would make comparison to AI SERVO or Face Detect more practical.

I haven't found a good link sample yet, but if you know of one, please share.

BTW ... in that Gary Fong example at about 2:38 ... he holds down the button for a continuous shoot. Note how we can hear his camera taking photos even though the eye-detect square is over the model's nose as well. So his example shows the A7Riii's feature working somewhat as a face detection in that part.

Actually, if we watch closely to that one, the eye-detect square also rose near the eye brow, and at one point highlighted back to the hair on the left' side of the model's face or head. With or without still frame examples, that part of the video slants somewhat more spray and pray than it does for accuracy. Unless he's set a thick depth of field ... but in that case, even face detect would be of no need.

You can do basic extrapolation with eye AF.

Consider how precise regular point focus is with most mirrorless systems, it's dead on accurate. Now when it comes to eye AF, what would make you think that it would be any less precise? Generally, when it grabs focus, it will land unless action is too fast. Generally, portraits arent fast enough for eye AF to lose hold. In practice, it's amazing and extremely useful tech.


Sony A7rii/A7riii - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - CV 35/1.7 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 35-70, 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8, 24/1.4 - Tamron 28-75 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 VC

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mdvaden
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Post has been last edited 21 days ago by mdvaden. 3 edits done in total.
Nov 26, 2017 14:15 |  #210

Charlie wrote in post #18504517 (external link)
You can do basic extrapolation with eye AF.

Consider how precise regular point focus is with most mirrorless systems, it's dead on accurate. Now when it comes to eye AF, what would make you think that it would be any less precise? .

The fact that all systems can have defects. That was pretty easy to answer in part.

Plus, going back to that Fong video I shared, if the AF eye detect highlight is on the hair at the side, it begs the question what actually happened.

If mirrorless is as accurate as you denote, then an assumption on our part would be that Fong's camera focused near the woman's ear? Hence the "extrapolation" thing can be pretty useless. If still frames prove the eye detect system all the way through the motion, that will be the best example.

Again, to reiterate, when I go back to Fong's video near 2:38 ... the "shutter" sound is going when the camera's eye-detect box is near her eyebrow, over her nose and back near her hair, in addition to eyes, etc.. Other's can feel free to "extrapolate" from that example. I tend to prefer still frames that show exactly what's taking place. It erases questions and assumptions.

This partly reminds me why I spent so much time recently reviewing new Zeiss lenses rather than extrapolating from the track record of older classic lenses.


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Struggling on a mirrorless camera.. Which one?
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