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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera
Thread started 08 Aug 2017 (Tuesday) 05:24
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Jake.Northrup
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Aug 08, 2017 05:24 |  #1

Just joined the forum and it seems like there's tons of great photographer's and information (even if the negativity is ridiculous after reading through some 60D mark ii threads haha).

I got a Canon 7D for my first camera 5 years ago and have loved every second of it. A few weeks ago I decided I wanted to get more serious about photography... shoot more frequently, post more frequently, start selling prints, etc. My Canon 7D is awesome but I need to upgrade in order to get more low light ability, dynamic range, and printing quality as I am doing a lot more landscape nowadays than just action sports like I used to.

Also, I like to go backpacking/snowboardi​ng so good weather sealing is a must on top of wanting low weight (but weight is my least concern), dynamic range, fast AF, and IQ. Also, I'm really undecided on wanting to move to FF but i don't know if it is worth the cost. However, I just sold my 100-400 L and my 50mm so I only have a sigma 24-70 that I use frequently rn. So I won't be losing a lot on current lenses but understand that getting good glass for FF is way more expensive? I took a few shots with my friend's lower end, mirrorless sony and it seemed way sharper, maybe it's because my 7D body is old? But I love Canon and don't want a mirrorless camera even though they're lighter and cheaper for backpacking I read that the colors aren't as real so a lot of people switch back.

I wish I could get a 60d mark ii for landscape and a canon 7d mark ii for action, but I can't. What is the best middle ground? Should I hold off and save up for the 5d mark iii? Are there any other bodies I should be looking at.

Sidenote: If anyone has any tips for getting more serious about photography feel free to share the knowledge, otherwise I'll make a separate post in a different thread for that at some point.


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TeamSpeed
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Aug 08, 2017 05:46 |  #2

Get a used 6d, you have all the IQ of the 6d II, at half the cost. Alternatively, if you like the "reach" of the 7d, then look at the 80D, it will do very well for you to replace the 7d. For those on a budget, but want to move into something newer from a 2009 camera, those are the suggestions I give people.


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Jake.Northrup
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Post has been last edited 2 months ago by Jake.Northrup. 5 edits done in total.
Aug 08, 2017 06:00 as a reply to TeamSpeed's post |  #3

How is the autofocus for sports on the 6D compared to the 7D or 6D mark ii? That is the only area I feel I might be disappointed. However, the 6d does seem like a good idea because I want to focus on landscape equal to sports.

The IQ isn't a whole lot better on the 6d mark ii with the new sensor and added pixels?

I've never had problems with reach, only really AF, dynamic range and noise.


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Sibil
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Aug 08, 2017 06:04 |  #4

Jake.Northrup wrote in post #18422102 (external link)
How is the autofocus on the 6D compared to the 7D? That is the only area I feel I might be disappointed.

For landscape? No difference. For sports, 7D is better.




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Jake.Northrup
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Aug 08, 2017 06:13 as a reply to Sibil's post |  #5

I like to photograph dirt biking, snowboarding, cars, etc... is there a way for me to get an idea of how much worse it is.


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TeamSpeed
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Aug 08, 2017 06:48 |  #6

Jake.Northrup wrote in post #18422110 (external link)
I like to photograph dirt biking, snowboarding, cars, etc... is there a way for me to get an idea of how much worse it is.

People that have used the 6D more than I have stated that the center AF point is just fine for alot of sports. Tracking vehicles or dirt bikes probably won't give it too much grief. Snowboard, if they are doing a pike and flipping in the air might be problematic.

The 6D2, IQ-wise, is a bit better at high ISOs, and worse at pulling low ISO shadows, so for some, it is a wash. You have to decide whether that additional $1000+ is worth the other features and AF, even though you might want to check out where the AF spread is on the 6D2. It is all clumped up in the middle part of the frame, covering the same area as the 11 on the 6D.

If you like the crop factor and want better AF for sports, dynamic range, and better higher ISO, the 80D is a good option. Put a good UWA on that camera and do landscapes. The 80D beats the 6D and 6D2 for low ISO dynamic range in landscapes, for example. Its AF is better than the 7D. Its high ISO is close to that of the 7D2. It might be the best compromise for all the things you want to shoot.


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Jake.Northrup
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Aug 08, 2017 07:07 as a reply to Jake.Northrup's post |  #7

Looking on Craigslist, I found an excellent condition 7d mark ii for $1000, would that have everything I need and I could sell my super old 7D for a few hundred dollars or would the 7D mark ii lack in IQ for low light landscapes too much?

Canon 6D are running for around $800 in decent condition and $1000 for great, are these overpriced? But would I want to keep my 7D for action shots and lose money on that?

There's a $1,500 5d Mark iii that says great condition, which seems like the best idea? Although, I might need to save a bit longer and i don't know how rare of a deal that is...

Thoughts on how well priced these cameras are I just mentioned? Best plan to save money and balance IQ with AF?


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TeamSpeed
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Post has been last edited 2 months ago by TeamSpeed. 5 edits done in total.
Aug 08, 2017 08:10 |  #8

Jake.Northrup wrote in post #18422131 (external link)
Looking on Craigslist, I found an excellent condition 7d mark ii for $1000, would that have everything I need and I could sell my super old 7D for a few hundred dollars or would the 7D mark ii lack in IQ for low light landscapes too much?

Canon 6D are running for around $800 in decent condition and $1000 for great, are these overpriced? But would I want to keep my 7D for action shots and lose money on that?

There's a $1,500 5d Mark iii that says great condition, which seems like the best idea? Although, I might need to save a bit longer and i don't know how rare of a deal that is...

Thoughts on how well priced these cameras are I just mentioned? Best plan to save money and balance IQ with AF?

In order of cost highest to lowest, my opinion is:

  • If you want a blend of FF, sports AF, and IQ, the 5D3 is a great option. I used one for 2 NBA seasons.
  • If you want to save money, and want slightly better DR/IQ, but lose AF, the 6D is a great option, and keep the 7D.
  • If you want better AF than the 7D and 6D, best low ISO DR of the 5D3/6D/6D2/7D2, a bit worse high ISO, a flip touch screen, etc, the 80D is a great option.
  • If you want even better AF (over the 6D/80D) and slightly better high ISO than the 80D (still below the FF bodies), can forgo a little shadow DR, the 7D2 is a great option, and sell the 7D.

(disclaimor: I have used all of these except for the 80D)

http://photonstophotos​.net ...rk%20II,Canon%20EOS​%2080D (external link)
http://photonstophotos​.net ...I_14,Canon%20EOS%20​80D_14 (external link)

I have used the 5D3 for NBA, now I use the 5D4 and 7D2. Both (5D3/7D2) are more than up to the task for that type of sports shooting. The 6D is not. The 80D sits right in the middle, IMO, based on different accounts on the web.

This is my own personal view of a report card between the 4 models mentioned, in addition to the 7D. Others might think differently depending on their experience and types of shooting conditions and raw converters/post processing tools.

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MalVeauX
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Aug 08, 2017 09:56 |  #9

Heya,

Based on what you pointed out, a used 5D3 would be my pick at $1500 price tier if you stay with Canon.

Otherwise, honestly, APS-C has come a long way and you can do awesome landscape with an 80D or 7D2, so if you wanted to keep a rugged fast action camera and keep it around $1k or less, you could do it with this and be fine for landscape.

But really, based on everything you're going on about, I'd look at an used 1DX and start being mindful of your lenses for weather sealing if you're into back packing.

Or, just keep it simple, stick with 80D / 7D2 / 5D3 ideas and maybe get some insurance on the gear so that while back packing if you drop, get dumped on, etc, you have a backup plan.

Very best,


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CyberDyneSystems
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Post has been edited 2 months ago by CyberDyneSystems.
Aug 08, 2017 11:03 |  #10

I agree with all the suggestions, 80D is a superb new body option at a reasonable price, and ticks off most of your want list. 5D3 was the original jack of all trades Canon FF body, with good specs in every category. 6D was the bargain high IQ body,. low cost, (low control specs) but amazing IQ.

That said, I love my 7D2, and the used price you quote looks good. Mine has apparently got fool proof AF! :) Coupled with an EFs 10-18mm, you get as wide as any reasonably priced FF lens. It's amazing for action shooting. APS-C means you can mount the superb 18-135mm STM and have the best one lens solution available to Canon shooters.

If however you absolutely want FF, a used 5D3 or new 6D2 will also offer good auto focus for action.

I'd rank the AF abilities in this order

7D2 > 5D3 (barely) > 6D2 (assumption based on specs)


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AlanU
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Aug 08, 2017 12:43 |  #11

The 80D is apparently weather sealed. That is probably canon's "better" jack of all trades in almost every category. Maybe Jack of all trades and master of none would be a bit harsh :)

For an extremely good universal crop sensor I'm extremely pleased with the image quality of the 80d. If I dont start talking about the "new age" of Canon's dynamic range sensors (found in 80d) I would still take my 5dmk3 over my 80D with Canon 10-22 or 10-18 UWA lenses for image quality and clarity.

Even though the 7dmk2 is better than the 80D to some respects I compromise with "better" universal application of my 80D for my casual application.

I think August 2017 the most affordable universal FF from Canon is the 5dmk3. I do agree with Jake in that respect. 5d3 isn't a great casual rookie videographer camera with AF capabilities but the stills do well considering older gen less dynamic range sensors found in the 5d4 , 80D etc.

If you want to spend the beans the 5d4 is the latest beast for universal use. If your totally taking photography as an enjoyable past time the single memory card slot 6dmk2 would work well sort of an upgraded 80D with a full frame sensor with decent dynamic range.

I also shoot Fuji and I'll have to say I prefer a 5d3, 80d, 7dmk2 as far as auto focus is concerned. However for casual use the Fuji system produces amazing image quality better than my 80d IMO. If you look at photos taken with a Fuji system with a capable photographer you'll see incredible potential in that system. Your application and if weight isn't a concerned I would NOT buy fuji if you want excellent weather sealing and fast reliable autofocus with no lag.

For your application I would suggest the 80D. Excellent new generation dynamic range sensor, very good constant AF (7d2 better), great high iso (7d2 marginally better), acceptable fps, optional touch screen for touch screen focus/shutter for video and stills. The body is lighter than the 7dmk2.

If dual memory cards matter you must go to 7dmk2.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
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Jake.Northrup
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Post has been edited 2 months ago by Jake.Northrup.
Aug 08, 2017 21:48 |  #12

Ok i think my order of preference rn shopping is:

1. Canon 5d mark iii
2012
(22MP, 38.7 micron pixel awesome pro level camera, best all around for sports, landscapes, everything, best for video and by far most durable)
$2,099 refurbished
$1500 to $1800 used best deal and camera out of all
minus $350 selling canon 7D
minus $250 selling Sigma lens
$1150 used or
^
$1500 refurbished after selling

2. Canon 6d + 7d combo
2012
(20MP, 41 micron pixels, 102400 max iso, entry full frame, really slow AF, great IQ)
$800-$1000 used $1200 refurbished
need to keep lens and 7D
^
$1200 total refurbished

"edit:
3. Canon 5dmk2+7D combo"


4. Sony a7r + 7d combo
2015
(36MP, 23.8 microns, 25600 max iso, FF, good iso and dynamic range but worse “real colors” than canon, more new features, bad battery life, slow autofocus for sports but good for landscape)
keep canon for sports
$1850 new
^
$1150 used

5. Canon 7d mark ii
2014
(20MP, 16.8 micron pixels, 20% worse at low iso and high iso but has new features, best video besides 5d, timelapse, cropped frame)
$1300 refurbished
minus $350 selling 7D
keep lens
^
$950 refurbished

6. Canon 80D
2016
(24MP, 14 micron pixels, 25600 max iso, amateur camera, good at low iso but worse at high iso IQ, AF is ‘ok’ for sports, cropped frame like 7D not full frame like 5d and 6d)
^
$800 refurbished

Canon 7D (currently own)
2009
(18 MP, 18.5 microns, 12800 max iso, worse AF and IQ than new Canons, slightly better sports than Sony, a lot worse Dynamic range and ISO noise than sony, and no features like IS)
$1,270 originally but discontinued and $840 new now
^
$840 new


Thoughts or opinions?


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AlanU
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Aug 08, 2017 22:12 |  #13

If you get a 5d3 you'll have great high iso performance in low light, decent dynamic range and you'll be safe when you get the exposure "close / perfect" . AF will deliver and fps is good. I know my full frame has this certain clean sharp look while my 80D is sharp but looks like it has a smoother edge....... Perhaps it's a pixel density thing.

Seems you know your specs...just a matter of pulling out the cash for hardware :)

Although the 6dmk1 is a nice camera I think you'll have buyers remorse when you need faster AF for capturing a buddy flying by on a snowboard. 6dmk2 will be better according to specs but you didn't have that on your list.

If I had to lug my fuji X-t2 for faster moving subjects I'd throw it into zone constant AF and "spray and pray". It'll capture stuff but capable of 4k video, excellent DR, good high iso performance, no issues of front/back focus in most cases and small form factor. Better IQ than an 80D IMO so that also a serious contender to the 7dmk2. There is something "different" about fuji image quality from that crop sensor.
However for spontaneous events photography i still prefer my canon way more than my fuji. However for a snowboarder and using zone for "spray and pray" :) i think the fuji will be very good.

Best IQ overall I'd suggest the 5d3 for sharp clean clarity photos. 7dmk2 or 80D is on the table for discussion IMO for universal abilities with canon crop sensors. I wouldn't be adding a 6d as lugging two bodies is not ideal for backpacking.....just hope you dont break the camera :) :O


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
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Jake.Northrup
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Post has been last edited 2 months ago by Jake.Northrup. 6 edits done in total.
Aug 08, 2017 22:45 as a reply to AlanU's post |  #14

Yeah I was just looking at the 5d mark ii specs actually, and it seems to be comparable to the 6d for my uses... con is it's heavier, and not as good in low light; but, for everything else the same. 5dmk3>6d>5dmk2 (barely)

I would take a 7D combo on day hikes, having two cameras is an advantage and disadvantage I think.

However, I would definitely leave the 7d and just take the 6d/5dmk2 for multi day trips into the backcountry (or hopefully will sell some prints and save up for 5dmk3). All these cameras have good enough weather sealing as long as I'm careful I'll never have to deal with breaking a body hopefully -?.

Any more opinions on a 5dmk3 versus 6d/5dmk2 + 7D combo?


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AlanU
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Vancouver, BC
Aug 08, 2017 23:11 |  #15

5dmk2 is fine for slow moving subjects. I still use it for a long telephoto/long prime second body. IQ in good light or fill flash you cannot tell the difference between the 5d3 or 5d2. However for available light shooting there is quite a difference in IQ in low light. Even my 80D or x-t2 seems a tad better in available light shooting.

BUT.....

I'll take the 5dmk2 image quality in good light or bounced flash events work over my 80D or X-T2!!!!

In good light my eyes do prefer the 5dmk2 and 5dmk3 files for available light shooting. Mind you if you print they all look good but to my critical eyes on a calibrated IPS panel the Canon still looks more crisp. Truly I'm being a bit silly but I'm finding the fresh new Canon 24mp crop sensor and Fuji 24mp sensor great. But to my eyes I cannot deny I see a difference and appreciate the full frame sensor.

5d2 with 16-35 f/2.8mk2

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5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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