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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography
Thread started 26 May 2017 (Friday) 15:57
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Do you give photos to vendors that ask?

 
Luigi123
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May 26, 2017 15:57 |  #1

I often get asked by vendors if I could send them some photos. The last one for instance was the makeup artist who gave me her card and asked if I could send her some photos she can post on her social media and give me credits.

What is your typical response to this? If you do send them, do you send the photos before or after you send the client her wedding photos?

I'm sure everyone works differently, although I am curious of how other photographers approach the situation.




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huntersdad
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May 26, 2017 22:20 |  #2

I share them with vendors and then follow up to make sure I get some kind of credit. And I pick the images. I don't, however, release anything until the bride and groom have seen them and I have gotten an email with their approval of the images I share and with whom. I have had a couple not allow me to share with a certain vendor from their day due to some displeasure with the requesting vendor. One bride wouldn't let me share any with her venue, which was really shocking given the images were really good and the venue did a great job. She said she hated dealing with the venue. Of course, she hated all her vendors.


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Wilt
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Post has been last edited 5 months ago by Wilt. 4 edits done in total.
May 27, 2017 09:29 |  #3

huntersdad's response makes total sense...to let the B&G first see and also approve the sharing of any photos...but it needs to go FARTHER than that!
In the USA, the people who are in the photo(s) need to grant written permission to use the photos commercially (to promote the vendor's services), what is classically referred to as having a 'model release' signed. 'Commercial use' is on vendor web sites, in brochures and other printed materials, and transmitted as an image on TV or other electronic media.


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joedlh
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May 27, 2017 09:51 |  #4

Wilt wrote in post #18364137 (external link)
In the USA, the people who are in the photo(s) need to grant written permission to use the photos commercially (to promote the vendor's services), what is classically referred to as having a 'model release' signed. 'Commercial use' is on vendor web sites, in brochures and other printed materials, and transmitted as an image on TV or other electronic media.

I wish someone with an intellectual property rights background could clarify this. In my mind, a portfolio is used to demonstrate one's skills as a photographer. However, there's a general sense that it's not a commercial use in the same vein as using someone's image to promote a commercial endeavor. I thought the rationale behind the law was that you couldn't use somebody's image in a way that made it appear that they endorsed a profit-making product or service unless you had their approval in writing. Putting somebody's picture in my portfolio does not demonstrate that they endorse my services, just that I took the picture. On the other hand, putting text on their photo, as in "Joe is a great photographer. Call 555-5555" That would be stating that the subject endorses my services and would therefore cross the line.

(Sorry to hijack the thread.)


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Wilt
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May 27, 2017 10:18 as a reply to joedlh's post |  #5

joedlh, I will not claim sufficient understanding of the law in this regard, other than the fact that 'intellectual property' has nothing to do with one's image being used commercially or not!

You cannot put my photo in your photo studio window and leave it up in the window without my permission to you to do so. Model release issue, in myt not granting my permission that it be used in that manner.
As for you including my photo in your portfolio/sample album, yet not in your studio window...I dunno about that, where the courts stand.


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BigAl007
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May 27, 2017 11:36 |  #6

Wilt wrote in post #18364161 (external link)
joedlh, I will not claim sufficient understanding of the law in this regard, other than the fact that 'intellectual property' has nothing to do with one's image being used commercially or not!

You cannot put my photo in your photo studio window and leave it up in the window without my permission to you to do so. Model release issue, in myt not granting my permission that it be used in that manner.
As for you including my photo in your portfolio/sample album, yet not in your studio window...I dunno about that, where the courts stand.


Actually in general the photographer can use any photo he likes in his studio window, as an example of his product/service. It seems to be pretty universal across most of the USA. Putting it on a poster or flyer may be a different matter though. It also seems that US courts fall into accepting that a website gallery of sample images falls under the same category of exception.

Since US law also allows you to sell photographic prints of photographs of anyone you like, without the need for a release, simply placing a method of ordering the print from the website would potentially solve any remaining issues. You have to be able to display your wares in order to sell them.

Of course a photographer who used images of a client against their will is asking for trouble, since word is likely to get around quite quickly, and although legal, is probably a very bad business decision.

I agree that other vendors using images to promote their business would require a release from everybody in the images, since that would definitely be a commercial use of the image. The laws on this are pretty much identical here in the UK.

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nathancarter
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May 29, 2017 21:44 |  #7

joedlh wrote in post #18364149 (external link)
I wish someone with an intellectual property rights background could clarify this. In my mind, a portfolio is used to demonstrate one's skills as a photographer. However, there's a general sense that it's not a commercial use in the same vein as using someone's image to promote a commercial endeavor. I thought the rationale behind the law was that you couldn't use somebody's image in a way that made it appear that they endorsed a profit-making product or service unless you had their approval in writing. Putting somebody's picture in my portfolio does not demonstrate that they endorse my services, just that I took the picture. On the other hand, putting text on their photo, as in "Joe is a great photographer. Call 555-5555" That would be stating that the subject endorses my services and would therefore cross the line.

(Sorry to hijack the thread.)

Right of Publicity is governed by state law, and varies somewhat by state.

For instance, in New York, a photographer can use a person's likeness to promote their own photography service, unless that person asks them in writing to stop.

In most states, you can sell an image of a subject as art, without their knowledge or consent. But in Washington State, if you sell more than five copies you need the subject's permission.

Florida's statutes and case law seem intentionally vague.

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Scott ­ Spellman
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May 30, 2017 01:57 |  #8

There are many layers to this topic, regardless if it is personal or commercial clients. As a wedding photographer I would ask my lawyer to include in my contract that the couple confirms a model release for my own commercial use(that can be assigned to third parties), and that photos may be provided to vendors. In practice, it is obviously better to ask the client directly rather than to depend on the contract.

State privacy laws vary significantly, but they generally place the liability on the direct publisher of a photo of commercial use. So if you publish the photos in advertising it is your liability, and not your liability if the vendor does the same on their own. However, this may not prevent an angry couple from suing you as well as the source of the photos. A smart vendor would negotiate use of the photos, a model release, and a gift as compensation as part of their own contract with the couple in advance of the event.

As always, it is smart to understand business issues through peer advice, but only rely on your lawyer and insurance company for contract language. Since your business insurance provider may cover you for these types of issues, it is best to include them in your strategy.




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PhotosGuy
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May 30, 2017 09:00 |  #9

Yes, you have a contract, but IMO this needs to be emphasized:

Scott Spellman wrote in post #18366320 (external link)
However, this may not prevent an angry couple from suing you as well as the source of the photos. A smart vendor would negotiate use of the photos, a model release, and a gift as compensation as part of their own contract with the couple in advance of the event.

Considering that anyone, whether in the right or wrong, can sue you for anything, it's always a good idea to ask the client for permission. A simple email gives you a paper trail without making a big legal issue out of the process in the clients mind.
This covers you. The vendor would need to negotiate their own permission to use the image.


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nathancarter
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May 30, 2017 09:54 |  #10

Another thought, continuing to follow the trail of discussion:

Generally, the bride can not give consent on behalf of any other person. The bride can't give you permission for commercial use of the whole wedding party. And, you certainly can't transfer that [nonexistent] consent to another vendor.

If the other vendor is going to use a photo of the wedding party as commercial advertisement, they'll need a release from every [Identifiable] person in the photo.


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Luigi123
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Aug 31, 2017 16:13 |  #11

Thanks for your answers. My question was meant to focus more on whether or not you guys simply give photos away to vendors without expecting any compensation. Or under what situations you do one or the other.




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Do you give photos to vendors that ask?
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