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Thread started 02 Sep 2017 (Saturday) 20:56
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Trading Up...Any Advice?

 
illmatik53
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398 posts
Joined Feb 2006
Sep 02, 2017 20:56 |  #1

So I am a die-hard Canon user. I've got a 5D MK3 and the 2.8L trinity setup along with an 85f1.2. I'm wanting to downsize with out "down sizing" if you get my drift. I've always wanted a Leica and I think I've got enough to trade/sell to make the transition.

I'm looking for a Leica that is full frame, HD video, interchangeable lenses, and also has a comparable lens setup as the Canon setup I had, except that instead of an 85, I'd probably look for a 50. I had my eye on the Leica M or M-P, but after looking at the price tag, I doubt I'd be able to afford anything beyond the body. So I started looking around and came across the Leica M9. Now, while I've got a premium camera setup already, which includes HD video for sure, and some of the best glass out there, I will be making some sacrifices. I know that I'm not going to get the same quality out of the Leica, but there are the obvious tradeoffs, and I believe the Leica has different processing as well. Plus I can move on to a different stage in my "photography" journey in life. lol.

Anyhow, Just wanted to hear from those that have made the transition and what advice you can provide. Anything to keep an eye out for? What do I need to be careful of when I buy a used Leica? Indicators to look for, i.e. service stickers to make sure it was serviced properly (like Canon had the gold sticker if you got the shutter actuator serviced)?

Might be a little while before I make the shift, so I've got time to read over your advice. Please, enlighten me!


EOS 5D MK3;16-35mm f/2.8 L; 24-70mm f/2.8 L; 85mm f/1.2 L; 70-200mm f/2.8 L; 580EX II;

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kf095
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Sep 02, 2017 22:52 |  #2

M9 has no video. It is digital film camera for stills. It is even more slow than any current digital camera and acts as film camera.

I ditched Canon FF and L in 2016. But I'm shooting with RFs for long time. Still, if I want it quick and easy, I reach the 500D for stills and iPhone for video...
If I want candid shots it is Leica then.
Complicated...


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illmatik53
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Sep 03, 2017 07:14 as a reply to kf095's post |  #3

thanks for the reply. yeah, i knew video was going to be a sacrifice. i'm even looking at other models as an alternative like the leica d-lux series.


EOS 5D MK3;16-35mm f/2.8 L; 24-70mm f/2.8 L; 85mm f/1.2 L; 70-200mm f/2.8 L; 580EX II;

flickr - http://www.flickr.com/​photos/marylandmatt/ (external link)

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airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
Joined May 2007
Oak Park, Illinois
Post has been edited 3 months ago by airfrogusmc.
Sep 03, 2017 11:38 |  #4

Would highly recommend the new M 10. It is the finest digital camera FF or crop that i have ever shot with period and I've owned and/or shot with quit a few.

Here's a review that I mostly agree with.
http://www.jaycassario​.com ...0-first-impression-review (external link)

I wouldn't choose a range finder to do video but I also would us a DSLR for it either. I dumped all my Canon gear a couple of years ago and went all Leica M. No regrets. Well maybe one, that i didn't do it sooner.




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illmatik53
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Sep 03, 2017 11:58 as a reply to airfrogusmc's post |  #5

That given, what would you recommend for "direct" lens switch overs from what I currently have? I was thinking maybe a 28mm 1.4 or something or maybe a 35mm 1.8, or whatever is available. I'm still doing research, so forgive me if my lens choices are not ones available in Leica.


EOS 5D MK3;16-35mm f/2.8 L; 24-70mm f/2.8 L; 85mm f/1.2 L; 70-200mm f/2.8 L; 580EX II;

flickr - http://www.flickr.com/​photos/marylandmatt/ (external link)

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airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
Joined May 2007
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Post has been edited 3 months ago by airfrogusmc.
Sep 03, 2017 12:04 |  #6

I dumped my 200 2L, 85L, 35L and 24L and I know have a 24 2.8 Elmarit asph, a 35 1.4 Summilux FLE asph, a Zeiss 35 2.8 Biogon C and a 75mm 2.5 Summarit. Once you shoot with Leica or Zeiss glass nothing else seems right. My 35 lux FLE is sharper than the 35L (by quite a bit) and I prefer he way it renders by a lot. And it is tiny compared to it. I know some prefer Zeiss but i prefer for the most part Leica glass.
You can usually have someone provide the paper work that they got form Leica for any service that they've had done.




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illmatik53
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Sep 05, 2017 16:49 as a reply to airfrogusmc's post |  #7

Which leica do you have? Some other photography friends are bringing up the point that obviously the Canon is going to bring in more light, simply due to the sheer size of the lenses. How does your camera fair in low light and with speed by comparison? Obviously not going to use it to catch your kids running around with you (i don't think it'd be fast enough), but aside from that? What are you suggestions to still get the leica experience if I were to sell my stuff. Not sure how much I'd still be able to get but I think I could get enough to buy a body and maybe 2 lenses.


EOS 5D MK3;16-35mm f/2.8 L; 24-70mm f/2.8 L; 85mm f/1.2 L; 70-200mm f/2.8 L; 580EX II;

flickr - http://www.flickr.com/​photos/marylandmatt/ (external link)

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MalVeauX
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Joined Feb 2013
Florida
Sep 05, 2017 17:51 |  #8

Heya,

Leica really doesn't have answers to the big F2.8L series lenses you may be talking about.

That said, if you're looking to see competition to Leica, there are Fuji's that are modded to be monochrome. Worth considering.

Leica isn't a replacement for a big telephoto zoom system with blazing autofocus like Canon. Leica is more if you're into a small form factor, small lens, manual focus, potentially monochrome, experience. Much like shooting a film rangefinder, in black & white, with really sharp little primes. Leica is that. Leica is not a system in the way that Canon is (when you start to consider things like what glass you can get, zooms, big long telephotos, and the lighting options you can configure). So I would not treat it like a system trade. Treat it like another direction.

Very best,


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airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
Joined May 2007
Oak Park, Illinois
Post has been edited 3 months ago by airfrogusmc.
Sep 05, 2017 18:10 |  #9

Leica's are definitely not about tele lenses. They had some insanely good glass though. The bokeh from the 50 .95 Noktilux is about as good as it gets.

I have the original Leica MM, Leica M-E, Leica M 262 and the new M 10.

You just learn to see differently but it is a system. Rangefinders are not for everyone. If you want all the bells and whistles these are not you camera. Less is more with Leica M. I can shoot with any lighting that I could shoot with when I had my Canons.

I shot with fuji and a Leica M9 and I chose Leica and the MM. For me it wasn't even a close choice. Leica MM is the only true B&W only digital rangefinder and I'll say it again Leica M 10 is by far the finest 135 (FF) or crop digital camera I have shot with period. It's the kind of camera that gets out of the way and lets me create.




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illmatik53
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Post has been edited 3 months ago by illmatik53.
Sep 05, 2017 18:19 as a reply to MalVeauX's post |  #10

Thanks for explaining that. I think I just got caught up in my current mindset that I didn't look at it as a separate avenue, but more as a replacement for my current setup. Reading your explanation definitely opens things up for me now. Thank you.

What Fuji's would you be referring to? Could you give me a few to start doing some research about?


EOS 5D MK3;16-35mm f/2.8 L; 24-70mm f/2.8 L; 85mm f/1.2 L; 70-200mm f/2.8 L; 580EX II;

flickr - http://www.flickr.com/​photos/marylandmatt/ (external link)

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illmatik53
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Sep 05, 2017 18:25 as a reply to airfrogusmc's post |  #11

Thanks for the reply. I see, so you used it as a replacement, but with the expectation of having less and allowing you to put more of yourself into your work. You seem to be more of a creative shooter if that makes sense, not looking to capture much action with a Leica. I think I'm partially looking at it that way as well. I am wanting to force myself to be more creative...Not that I can't do that with my Canon, I think maybe I just want a little change. From an earlier reply though, MalVeaux brought up a good point about it being a different direction, not a direct replacement. So maybe I'll save up the change and add a leica to my setup instead of replacing it. I wish I could afford the M10 right now, because I'd give it a shot, but it looks like I'll be looking and browsing in the used department for a while.


EOS 5D MK3;16-35mm f/2.8 L; 24-70mm f/2.8 L; 85mm f/1.2 L; 70-200mm f/2.8 L; 580EX II;

flickr - http://www.flickr.com/​photos/marylandmatt/ (external link)

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airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
Joined May 2007
Oak Park, Illinois
Sep 05, 2017 18:52 |  #12

I have a good bud that loaned me a fuji X pro 1 and he now has the X pro 2. I have shot with both. Noting exciting for me. But other than that they are both crops so a real deal breaker for me. Before I bought me MM I had tried the X pro1 and another friend of mine let me take his M 9 to key west with me (oct 2012) and that sold Leica M for me. I picked you an original MM from that experience.

There is absolutely nothing better for shooting street and fast action than a rangefinder. Leica interviewed me just over a year ago and I really express why I like a true rangefinder so much
http://blog.leica-camera.com ...pontaneous-relationships/ (external link)




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kf095
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Canada, Ontario, Milton
Post has been last edited 3 months ago by kf095. 6 edits done in total.
Sep 06, 2017 14:25 |  #13

D-Lux is not Leica made, but Panasonic. Only latest one has EVF and decent size of the sensor. It is not serious cameras, they are very nice, advanced P&S. Leica lenses do nice rendering on them. But as any P&S with zoom, they feel very fragile.

Creative part sound familiar to me. I'm most creative with film rangefinder cameras and iPhone. :)

How often do you use 70-200? I still have it, but using it few times per year for very simple photography. It is just a tool for me. I think, creativity has two types. One is to create something in front of the lens. Lineup objects, like Lego, put the light... 70-200 is great portrait lens. If you know how to create portraits, this lens will do.
Normal zoom is also tool, too universal some times... And wide zooms... you really need to like wide SLR distortions. IMO.
How is it possible to be creative with wide, normal and tele zooms ? , I don't know. I wasn't, it was whatever they asked me photography where I was trying to be creative. And one thing I noticed, I was switching from any zoom to the fifty. To be more creative. Don't know if it works for many, but this is how it works for me. And if you look at known photographers like Bresson, Bown and Karsh, they are different for creativity approach. Street or what is available, what is available or just one extra light source sometimes; full theatrical light kit. Yet, all three had minimum amount of primes and cameras.

Here comes another type of creativity. You observe, read and take it. At some point you might realize what your creative vision or just vision is working with one specific focal length. It is not primes, but often the prime. Bown used 80mm most, Bresson used mostly 50 and Winogrand used 28.

Karsh was using assistant to model the pose for actual sitter and check the light. Bown was walking in circles around the sitter and waiting for the taker to show up. Bresson... he was walking in and sitters often didn't even know then portrait was taken. Karsh used studio camera with one lens, Bown used SLR and Bresson used Leica.

It is Leica which allows you to be creative within environment. I stopped looking at images in dedicated threads at P.O.T.N. long time ago. Instead I like what is showing up at Leica Blog under M cameras photography. This is where Leica photography is for me. Q, T, SL isn't Leica, IMO. Most of M photographers are using just one type of three common Leica lenses. 21, 35 or 50. One of the three. Yet, photos are different, but here is something common. It is how people are able to see with Leica.
http://blog.leica-camera.com ...pontaneous-relationships/ (external link)

If it makes sense, used Leica cameras are available more and more (and service is still available, but slow), lenses don't have to be new as well or to be Leica made and Leica price range at all.
I would just take M240 (it does have some video functionalities) and one, two lenses. 35 and 50, to see which one works best for your vision. Some people going wider. Many using nothing but 35 or 50. It doesn't limit creativity, but stimulates it, once you know where is your spot.


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welshwizard1971
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Sep 06, 2017 15:27 |  #14

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18443539 (external link)
Would highly recommend the new M 10. It is the finest digital camera FF or crop that i have ever shot with period and I've owned and/or shot with quit a few.

Here's a review that I mostly agree with.
http://www.jaycassario​.com ...0-first-impression-review (external link)

I wouldn't choose a range finder to do video but I also would us a DSLR for it either. I dumped all my Canon gear a couple of years ago and went all Leica M. No regrets. Well maybe one, that i didn't do it sooner.

I have no doubt this guy is waaaaay better than me, and that the Lieca is awesome, I've seen plenty of Leica shots to know that, but reading the review, I wasn't blown away by any of the images, and, I much preferred his RAW files to his processed images. In fact there were only two pics I thought were OK, both pictures of the M10, which I assume were taken on something other than an M10......


5DIII, 40D, 16-35L 35 ART 50 ART 100L macro, 24-70 L Mk2, 135L 200L 70-200L f4 IS
Hype chimping - The act of looking at your screen after every shot, then wildly behaving like it's the best picture in the world, to try and impress other photographers around you.

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illmatik53
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Sep 06, 2017 18:08 as a reply to welshwizard1971's post |  #15

The review was good. But I agree with you, I preferred the original photos vs the processed ones. It just seemed like they were too washed out...but perhaps that's what he was going for. Seemed like a country type theme with sun glaring or something. *shrug. I did enjoy the pictures, except I did find the grain to be a bit much in the lower light shots. Maybe the upload to the site downgrades the quality. I did also wonder about the two photos of the Leica's as well...what camera did he use? Still a question unanswered.


EOS 5D MK3;16-35mm f/2.8 L; 24-70mm f/2.8 L; 85mm f/1.2 L; 70-200mm f/2.8 L; 580EX II;

flickr - http://www.flickr.com/​photos/marylandmatt/ (external link)

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Trading Up...Any Advice?
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