Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography
Thread started 29 Oct 2009 (Thursday) 22:41
Prev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

Cavan Images??

 
Photog ­ N.A./E.U
Hatchling
1 post
Joined Jan 2012
Jan 23, 2012 13:54 as a reply to post 9180969 |  #16

To all those who are wondering about Cavan; its a getty shell corporation! let me shed some light on the subject of what they most likely stand for. Adam Sternin wants to do to the stock photo industry, what jeff vespa did to the wire service service industry which is more money and power for the corporation and less for the hard working photog. So im willing to bet that the cavan contract is simply a rewording of a getty contract.

What PNC, Amfoto, and Karl have said is true they are looking for unknowing and unwitting; skilled or adv amateur photogs to send them not high res jpgs but the raw file size images and for this format you sign away all future copyrights but they are going to give you $50 and will send you a retouched image that you can use for self promotion and fine art uses only. and if you deviate from the self promo or specifically designated fine art uses expect to hear from their lawyers.

Karl made a good point "I see a lot of money going out, but am not seeing where the money is coming in." So for adam's claims that cavan isn't part of getty, then who is bankrolling this privately held company?

And in case anyone was wondering here is adam's work history for the past decade
2008-present: President at Cavan Images 2005-2008: Art Director at Getty Images ,oh and before that he worked for getty corporate stock image company photonica.
NAH, cavan has no ties to getty they only shill cavan stock images. probly for at least 6 -10 times what they paid for it. and since they bought the copyright outright for the large sum of $50 they can re-license it as many times as they want!!!




LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
metaglypto
Hatchling
2 posts
Joined Mar 2012
Mar 05, 2012 18:08 |  #17

I just submitted ten images to the Cavan site. Some will probably think me a bit foolish for submitting to Cavan, and then doing research on them, and I would be inclined to agree. But that is what I did. That is how I found this forum, I Googled "Cavan Images", saw the discussion, and thought I would try and follow.

The Cavan site said it may take up to three weeks to review the images and get back to me with the results of their decision. I will keep the forum updated as to my experience.

BTW, dont hate me because I shoot with a Pentax!




LOG IN TO REPLY
cavanimages
Hatchling
1 post
Joined Feb 2012
Mar 06, 2012 17:20 as a reply to metaglypto's post |  #18

It looks like there is some confusion about our business.
We look forward to answering any questions you may have.

Call us directly at: 212 219 0518

Kindly,
Adam Sternin
Creative Director/President
Cavan Images




LOG IN TO REPLY
esolesek
Hatchling
1 post
Joined Jun 2012
Jun 05, 2012 13:23 as a reply to Photog N.A./E.U's post |  #19

This is the first section of their contract:

1.1 Artist hereby irrevocably transfers and assigns to Cavan all present and future right, title and interest in and to the Purchased Images , including, but not limited to the worldwide copyright rights therein, and all renewals and extensions thereof. Artist hereby acknowledges and agrees that all of the Purchased Images and rights in such Purchased Images, including, but not limited to worldwide copyrights, are the exclusive property of Cavan.


That's surrender monkey language to me. All present and future right to my images?
Exclusive to this agency? Oh well, what do you expect from NYC and what do you expect from an online agency in the 21st century. These guys are basically capitalizing on the poor impression left by iCrock selling images for $1 and not telling you where they go. Here you sell for $50 and get a retouched portfolio! Golly, thanks MISTER!
You're my BFF forever!

I don't who the suited jerks run these agencies think they are, but they should all be boycotted by photographers. I can make better money publishing my own cards and prints and peddling them in the street than working for agencies like these.




LOG IN TO REPLY
bizarrenivore
Hatchling
3 posts
Joined Aug 2017
Aug 31, 2017 12:36 |  #20

esolesek wrote in post #14535040 (external link)
This is the first section of their contract:

1.1 Artist hereby irrevocably transfers and assigns to Cavan all present and future right, title and interest in and to the Purchased Images , including, but not limited to the worldwide copyright rights therein, and all renewals and extensions thereof. Artist hereby acknowledges and agrees that all of the Purchased Images and rights in such Purchased Images, including, but not limited to worldwide copyrights, are the exclusive property of Cavan.

I know this is an old thread, but I found it on google because I was curious about other people's experiences with Cavan, as I just submitted a couple photos to them. In case anyone finds this, I thought I should point out that the agreement that I signed has different language. Perhaps they have changed their agreement in the 5 years that have passed since the above comment was posted.

This is the entire section of my agreement regarding rights:

"2. Rights.
2.1. Upon notification by Cavan of acceptance of any of Content, Contributor hereby grants to Cavan the worldwide, exclusive right to
copy, reproduce, display, transmit, broadcast, modify, alter, create derivative works of and publish the whole or part of such Accepted
Content. These rights may be exercised via any analog or digital means of communication now known or hereafter devised including
without limitation via print, websites, other electronic formats, mobile devices, TV, cinema, exhibits; and subject to applicable laws, may
be used for any purpose of any nature including without limitation for advertising, publicity, promotions, graphic design, marketing within
and on products, corporate communications, press articles, press releases, brochures, reports, decor, programs and films.
2.2. Cavan may sublicense or authorize any Distributors and any customer who licenses such Accepted Content from Cavan or a
Distributor to exercise the rights described in this Section 2. Cavan and Distributors will determine the terms and conditions of all End
User Licenses.
2.3. During the Term, Contributor may not license the same or similar Content to any third party.
2.4 Contributor shall retain ownership in the copyright in all Accepted Content in all forms"

I hope this info helps.




LOG IN TO REPLY
BigAl007
Cream of the Crop
Joined Dec 2010
Repps cum Bastwick, Gt Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK.
Sep 03, 2017 04:25 |  #21

bizarrenivore wrote in post #18441470 (external link)
I know this is an old thread, but I found it on google because I was curious about other people's experiences with Cavan, as I just submitted a couple photos to them. In case anyone finds this, I thought I should point out that the agreement that I signed has different language. Perhaps they have changed their agreement in the 5 years that have passed since the above comment was posted.

This is the entire section of my agreement regarding rights:

"2. Rights.
2.1. Upon notification by Cavan of acceptance of any of Content, Contributor hereby grants to Cavan the worldwide, exclusive right to
copy, reproduce, display, transmit, broadcast, modify, alter, create derivative works of and publish the whole or part of such Accepted
Content. These rights may be exercised via any analog or digital means of communication now known or hereafter devised including
without limitation via print, websites, other electronic formats, mobile devices, TV, cinema, exhibits; and subject to applicable laws, may
be used for any purpose of any nature including without limitation for advertising, publicity, promotions, graphic design, marketing within
and on products, corporate communications, press articles, press releases, brochures, reports, decor, programs and films.
2.2. Cavan may sublicense or authorize any Distributors and any customer who licenses such Accepted Content from Cavan or a
Distributor to exercise the rights described in this Section 2. Cavan and Distributors will determine the terms and conditions of all End
User Licenses.
2.3. During the Term, Contributor may not license the same or similar Content to any third party.
2.4 Contributor shall retain ownership in the copyright in all Accepted Content in all forms"

I hope this info helps.


It doesn't tell you what the term is though. I would guess it will be something close to in perpetuity. If it is in perpetuity then this licence has exactly the same effect as selling the copyright outright. Actually in the case where you sell the copyright outright you have at least severed all legal connection to the image. So if someone get angry and decides to sue, over say a commercial use without the propper release, you as photographer would be an additional step removed from the situation.

In addition the in the case of the old outright purchase of the copyright they did have the decency to licence you the right to use the image in your portfolio, and even make fine art prints of it for sale. This licence doesn't even give you the right to use the image in your portfolio. Also if you do use it it is no longer a copyright issue in the US, where you need to go to Federal Court, but a contractual dispute, probably under NY State Law, they might even be able to get it into a small claims type court, since that will also be part of your contract with them. Also notice that you can't even license similar images to anyone else, again more onerous than an outright copyright purchase.

It probably also means that you will be required to maintain the copyright registrations. I would bet that if they thought that they could get away with it they would make you responsible for the costs of defending the copyrights in court. I don't think that is too common in modern US IP contracts. It certainly caught out one Rollin White, who received a very large sum to exclusively licence one of his patents. He died in poverty because he was required to defend the patent himself, and it was very widely copied, and ended up costing vastly more to defend then he got from the sale.

Alan


My Flickr (external link)
My new Aviation images blog site (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
bizarrenivore
Hatchling
3 posts
Joined Aug 2017
Sep 09, 2017 13:21 as a reply to BigAl007's post |  #22

The term of the contract is one year, with a two year "deactivation period" if I decided to terminate the agreement after one year. So in other words, once they have accepted your submitted content, the shortest period of time that they could "own" the content is three years.... Be sure to consider that before you submit anything to them.
There is another clause about promotional uses that allows the the photographer to use content in a portfolio, and to sell fine art prints. Those two are the only things that the clause covers, anything else that competes with the "Rights" section I posted above would be a breach. I think you're probably right about the State of New York governing the terms of the agreement.
I would just post the whole contract here, but i think that would put me in violation of confidentiality, if I'm not already :P




LOG IN TO REPLY
welshwizard1971
Goldmember
1,237 posts
Joined Aug 2012
Southampton Hampshire UK
Sep 09, 2017 13:45 |  #23

I didn't see the bit where photographers were being forced to use this firm? If they're free to choose, why the anger?

This format enables togs to hedge their bets, you can definitely sell your work, with no hassle dealing with marketing or clients, but at a reduced price, the tog takes a risk that his stuff doesn't sell really well, and so does the firm, but if it does sell well, there's their profit, everyone's happy, the tog sold his pics at a price he's happy with, gets increased exposure, he can still use them for personal reasons, and the entrepreneur who set up the firm see a return on his investment.

So what if he worked for Getty? That's a good thing, he knows the market and has good contacts, you stuff is more likely to sell, so he's more likely to buy more stuff from you. I used to work for Exxon, does that mean I can't run my own gas station?

There's loads of business models like this, 'We buy any car' is a high profile one in the UK at the moment, you won't get max price, but, you'll definitely sell it, and, with no hassle.

This firms doing nothing wrong, nobody is being forced to use them, it's a safety net for selling your stuff, you won't get max price for 'that one' that sells really well, but, you will consistently sell your work and get a return on it, some togs would love that opportunity. Not everyone fools themselves into thinking they're the next Peter Lik, most are journeyman togs, this is a reliable route to achieve it...........

And no, I don't work for them, for Getty, for anyone actually....


5DIII, 40D, 16-35L 35 ART 50 ART 100L macro, 24-70 L Mk2, 135L 200L 70-200L f4 IS
Hype chimping - The act of looking at your screen after every shot, then wildly behaving like it's the best picture in the world, to try and impress other photographers around you.

LOG IN TO REPLY
bizarrenivore
Hatchling
3 posts
Joined Aug 2017
Sep 09, 2017 13:54 as a reply to welshwizard1971's post |  #24

I think the point of the thread was for OP to figure out if Cavan was a legit business. But you're right, at the end of the day, it's up to the photographer whether or not they want to agree to their terms. I just wanted to share some insight into what i had to agree to in order to start submitting to them, so that other people on this thread can make their own decision.




LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

24,542 views & 0 likes for this thread
Cavan Images??
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography


Not a member yet? Click here to register to the forums.
Registered members get all the features: search, following threads, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, settings, view hosted photos, own reviews and more...


AAA

Send feedback to staff    •   Jump to forum...    •   Rules    •   Index    •   New posts    •   RTAT    •   'Best of'    •   Gallery    •   Gear    •   Reviews    •   Polls

COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Privacy policy and cookie usage info.

POWERED BY AMASS 1.4version 1.4
made in Finland
by Pekka Saarinen
for photography-on-the.net
Spent 0.00103 for 6 database queries.
PAGE COMPLETED IN 0.02s
Latest registered member is Milla S
930 guests, 499 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6106, that happened on Jun 09, 2016