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Thread started 10 Sep 2017 (Sunday) 14:39
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Going Native

 
lifthard2001
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Sep 10, 2017 14:39 |  #1

Couple from this weekend


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DMPhotog
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Joined Dec 2011
Ohio
Sep 10, 2017 18:08 |  #2

I like the one in color. Nice work!


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lifthard2001
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Sep 10, 2017 18:15 as a reply to DMPhotog's post |  #3

Thank you




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lifthard2001
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Sep 11, 2017 05:30 |  #4

The intentions of this photo was never to offend anyone or any heritage with that being said I apologize if it did. I do have one question does Felipe Ortiz Rose offend the native american heritage as well?




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Scrumhalf
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by Scrumhalf. 2 edits done in total.
Sep 11, 2017 09:37 |  #5

If he has Native American heritage, I will leave it up to him to decide how he uses his culture's symbology. It's probably not what I personally would do.

I think the key issue is the profiting by non native people off Native symbols and culture. For example, using Native designs and patterns on t shirts, etc.


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davesrose
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Sep 11, 2017 10:19 |  #6

Well Felipe Ortiz Rose does have a father who is Lakota. There's also the issue that it was Western tribes that wore the headdresses. I grew up near Oconaluftee Village (in Cherokee, NC). It's a prime spot for tourists, as it's near the Smokey Mountains (the most visited national park in the US). Now they have a casino even. Anyway, when I'd go visit as a kid, I'd see rather disparaging instances of black bear cages and "get a photo with an Indian" (a hard luck Cherokee would dress in western headdress to have his photo taken). Reinforcing misinformation and stereotypes, since the Cherokee didn't wear such headdresses.


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paintedlotus
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Sep 11, 2017 11:57 as a reply to lifthard2001's post |  #7

Nowhere was it stated that you or the model were trying to offend anyone, it's clear that it wasn't something that was considered or even thought about. But, now you know. :)


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tacphotog
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Sep 11, 2017 22:06 |  #8

I don't see a problem with the pictures at all. I like the second one the most. I guess all kids playing cowboys and Indians should be horse whipped. I think that could go for any other things that are not native to a persons background. I would love to know what harm the pictures cause. They do not make fun of or degrade Indians. All of this correctness is offensive and revolting. Keep it up and I think we will be able to eliminate all pictures. I say get over it and let the good pictures roll. Just my 2 cents and let them be Indian head pennies.


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Scrumhalf
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Sep 11, 2017 23:30 |  #9

tacphotog wrote in post #18449851 (external link)
I don't see a problem with the pictures at all. I like the second one the most. I guess all kids playing cowboys and Indians should be horse whipped. I think that could go for any other things that are not native to a persons background. I would love to know what harm the pictures cause. They do not make fun of or degrade Indians. All of this correctness is offensive and revolting. Keep it up and I think we will be able to eliminate all pictures. I say get over it and let the good pictures roll. Just my 2 cents and let them be Indian head pennies.

With all due respect, I think the Native Americans have expressed very clearly that they are NOT ok with cultural appropriation, either as inappropriate props, or more egregiously, selling Native American symbology in tacky ways, like on coffee mugs and T-shirts. So, the right thing to do would be to respect their wishes, not to tell them to pound sand.


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AZGeorge
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by AZGeorge.
Sep 11, 2017 23:33 |  #10

Nice images, though I'm not in love with the title.

For me there's a vast distance between the respectful use of items from other cultures and other uses that show disrespect.


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Scrumhalf
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Sep 11, 2017 23:39 |  #11

AZGeorge wrote in post #18449893 (external link)
Nice images.

For me there's a vast distance between the respectful use of items from other cultures and other uses that show disrespect.

Ah, but there's the rub. How do you tell?

And in this case, is the wearing of a ceremonial headdress by (what appears to be) a white woman really appropriate?


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If I don't get the shots I want with the gear I have, the only optics I need to examine is the mirror on the bathroom wall. The root cause will be there.

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T.D.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:58 |  #12

Folks, please remember to stay on the topic of photography and off of personal and other attacks.


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LoneRider
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by LoneRider.
Sep 13, 2017 04:47 |  #13

Can non-natives speak for natives on the issue of cultural appropriation? What happens if some natives take issue, but others do not, which ones get to decide? What of the hypocrisy of a culture critizing cultural appropriation while actively engaging in appropriation from other cultures?

Was the models DNA tested to determine whether or not she had any native ancestry? What is the minimum amount of a particular cultures DNA needed to be considered a part of that culture? What if a model self-identifies with a particular culture? You see the rabbit hole we are going down, where does it end?

I think we have gone way over board in trying to find and define what is or isn’t offensive to others. The only one who can decide what is offensive or not to them is that person. Art is an expression of the artist and is judged by the personal interpretation and experience of the viewer.

Society and culture has a long history of evolving and melding things of different origin together. For me the issue is whether something is done respectfully or disrespectfully.

I think the photos are tasteful and do not show any disrespect. I prefer the full color version as I think it better shows the craftsmanship and detail of the head dress.

Absent obvious disrespect, mockery, or exploitation I try to assume positive intent and motives.


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DagoImaging
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Sep 13, 2017 08:33 |  #14

The images and the title do not offend ME. I'm 1/4 Cherokee, so take it for what it's worth. I give no s^&ts about the use of other cultural items in images and even people profiting from such actions.
People need to get over all the PC crap and move on.


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Pinto
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Sep 13, 2017 19:41 |  #15

DagoImaging wrote in post #18451144 (external link)
People need to get over all the PC crap and move on.

Amen!!!




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