MalVeauX wrote in post #18452972
I have this itch to have a smaller walk around camera. I love shooting my 5D classic and a small prime. However, I also often want something smaller even. My EOS-M is my smallest option with the pancake lens (22mm). It's fine for the most part, does the job. It's definitely the size I wish something else could be. My problem with it, is that it uses the LCD for everything and it cannot be used manually easily (have to electronically turn off autofocus, and the lens itself isn't good for MF, very poor MF control on the barrel). I have manual lenses (M42 mount) that I use on my 5D classic often, and those I really enjoy. For my general walk around stuff, I actually weirdly prefer manual focus and I like the wider angles from common focal lengths I use (28mm~58mm).
So I'm wondering, are there other smaller full frame options that are digital that have that range finder feel?
I can't spring on a $4k+ Leica, even though it's what I want (especially the monochrome one). But, can't do that.
I've looked at Fuji, but I don't like the idea of an EVF, I want optical. Fuji glass is very costly though, even if I got a small used body. I don't want to turn this into a costly system.
I've looked at Sony a bit. Not sure if the body sizes and styles are what I'm wanting though (again like the idea of optical viewfinder, not just EVF).
Ideally I'd like to be able to just continue using old inexpensive manual lenses; I just like them. I'm not looking to change systems entirely. Mainly just to compliment.
Any ideas for cameras I'm not considering or may have missed or not thought of?
Rangefinder style body (small, compact, ideally full frame, but could do APS-C or APS-H)
Can be used without an LCD, EVF is ok, but prefer something that allows fast manual focus via optical viewfinder (I'm used to old viewfinders & manual focus)
Prefer a body that is happy with manual focus lenses
Prefer a body that can adapt M42 glass, or similar old lenses, and not require a $600+ lens to compliment the body
Fuji X100F (optical viewfinder) and X100T (optical viewfinder & image stabilization) for example really appeals to me. Just don't like the price. Maybe what I'm looking for doesn't exist?
None of the X100's have optical stabilization. That being said, I've not found they need it. You sound like you would love Fuji. Pick up a used X-Pro1, X-E1 or X100 (I see each under $300 regularly on FM) and the 18mm f2 or a 35mm and I don't think you'd be at all disappointed.
MalVeauX wrote in post #18453125
The XPRO1 has a lot of what I'm looking for, and used ones are around $400 where I've just looked. That may be an option. $400 is totally doable for dabbling with a new camera system. Looks like I can adapt old glass to the Fuji X mount too with a basic adapter and use what I have. But, I also really like the idea of a small wide prime that has good long throw manual focus (though maybe a modern manual like a Rokinon would be more my speed).
I really really would want that 23mm F1.4 or the 16mm F1.4, but I'm definitely not paying those prices. That would be if I changed systems.
As for the Sony bodies, can't seem to find a good one that is cheap used. Everything is pretty much around $800+. I would be willing to try a focus peaking EVF with in-body stabilization. Just don't want to swap systems just yet.
It would be so much easier if I just wasn't hung up on the Rangefinder look/feel and manual lenses with a view finder. I just enjoy the "process" of shooting with them enough to care to see what's out there these days. I'm used to shooting Canon. I like to use my 5Dc and EOS-M for around the house, travel, walk around, with my kid, etc. But I really have always much more enjoyed my manual shooting with the 5Dc and an old prime than anything else. I've just never enjoyed autofocus for that sort of thing. I love autofocus for when I'm birding though... but that's different.
So Rokinon has a few interesting manual lenses that I'd be interested in that would go straight onto the Fuji mount without adapters with a 21mm F1.4 (manual focus, manual aperture for $385 new) and the 35mm F1.2 (also fully manual, $500ish).
Then again, a Fuji X100 with a 23mm F2 is $400 as a package used. I could totally dabble with something like that I suppose. Though I'd probably rather spend $400 and be able to try different lenses on it. Though ideally, I'd rather have one lens and it always be that. I really enjoy using 35mm FOV (full frame; 22mm on APS-C) for my "general" stuff. This could do that with a 23mm of several flavors. But I'd of course love to know how that Rok 21mm F1.4 feels on it, and it's not expensive.Fuji XPRO1 with a Rokinon 21mm F1.4 maybe? That's about $800 roughly?
Nevermind on the Rokinon 21mm. It's huge. Might as well use my 5Dc + 35 F2 IS instead there.
Or just a Fuji X100 with a 23mm F2 for a total of $400.
Or Fuji XPRO1 with a short slower lens like F2 or F2.8... preferably F2.
Really want something that has smooth manual focus around F2 though.
If I were swapping systems I'd just spring for the Leica. But, I'm not changing systems any time soon. But if I were, it would be a monochrome Leica hands down. I just can't do it right now. Maybe one day when its old.
The Rokinon lenses are great. I have the 12mm f2, 21mm f1.4 and have been giving real thought to the 50mm f1.2 also. They're pretty small and very light, they compliment the Fuji bodies greatly (though not as well as the native XF lenses do). Another great small option is an Olympus PEN 38mm, these lenses can be found all day on ebay for around $100-150 and they're awesome.
Manual focusing with any of the Fuji's is a breeze. When using MF with the X-Pro1 with the OVF it will switch to a zoomed EVF mode automatically when you turn the focus ring on XF lenses and you can do so manually with a button press when using legacy lenses. The X-Pro2 is far better in this regard thanks to the electronic range finder (what Fuji calls it, not technically accurate), with this option you get a smaller corner LCD within the OVF so manual focus and nailing exposure is always easy.
PineBomb wrote in post #18453206
Legacy glass manual focus is a snap with focus peaking (why did we wait so long for this beautiful freaking feature). If you're bargain hunting for Fuji, skip the X-Pro1. Opt for an X-E2 or X-E2s instead for better focus features (- USD $300). Don't let the EVF scare you off. It's a terrific performer, and will only have you looking forward to the improved performance of the 3d gen Fuji offerings (e.g., x-pro2, x-e3). Cost of manual lens adapters without elements are nominal. Focal length reducer adapters that aren't called metabones are about $100. Add at least one native XF lens for AF (used the 18/2, 23/2, 35/2 are all -$300).
X-Pro1's work fine for MF in my opinion, they're definitely lacking in the AF department, but certainly no worse than an EOS M. You can get X-E1's for $150 pretty often, at that price there's basically no risk in trying it out. I've even thought about buying one to convert it to IR.
kf095 wrote in post #18453237
Fuji X100 series are not wide, IMO. 35mm is next to normal lens. Personally, I use it most. So, if you are well aware of X100 limitations, at 400$ it is, probably, best deal for OVF placed where it should be. It is great camera for in camera JPEG1. If for any reason you prefer walkaround pictures in RAW, double check to be not disappointed. Canon RAW is very different from FUJI story....
X PRO is big camera. Every time I look at it, here is no reason to switch from 5D series. IMO. 5DC with 24mm old Oly pancake will be about the same to haul around.
X-Pro cameras are definitely nowhere near as big as a DSLR. Yes, they're larger than most mirrorless bodies, but they still dwarf DSLRs, and they're way lighter.
As for the RAWs; I think this issue is so overblown it's ridiculous. It was a problem for a while with the 1st gen X-Trans sensors, but the issues don't really exist anymore. I've been using LR for my Fuji RAW files for years now, it works great (though a bit slower to load than other RAW types). The X100 doesn't even use X-Trans though, so it's RAWs are no different from any other manufacturer in LR.
Scottboarding wrote in post #18453371
I would say the Fuji X100S would be a good bet. It 90% the same as the X100T, but far cheaper. I've never used it, but I've heard fantastic things about it. It's the rangefinder style, APS-C, 35mm equivalent lens.
I wouldn't say it's 90%, but it is pretty close. I would definitely try for an X100S over an X100 because I love the X-Trans sensors and I know they worked out a few of the hardware bugs in that iteration.
Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18453409
X-PRO1 is a lot smaller and lighter than a 5D. And size is only one of the many reasons someone might move towards shooting mirrorless.
MalVeauX wrote in post #18453500
I could be interested in that A6300, maybe that 20mm F2.8 lens. But, don't care for the look much. Not that it's terribly important how it looks. Though I guess nostalgia gets me when it comes to some of the other bodies and how they look (Fuji, Olympus, Lecia, some of the full frame Sony). Price is a little cranky for a general day to day camera for fun.
As for changing out my 5D classic, the only reason I shoot an old 5Dc is because I simply like the old RAW files and it's comfortable to shoot legacy glass, and modern glass, and is inexpensive and totally replaceable. I had two of them, only traded one out for another 1D body because I had too many cameras (9 at the time, ugh). Finally sold most of those bodies and slimmed back down to about 4 cameras. Now I'm looking to finally let go of the EOS-M and have a compact. I'm happy with my 5D for portrait, 1Ds for wildlife, birding, fishing, and my 650D is basically dedicated to astro and sits on my telescopes and tracking mounts. The EOS-M used to be my jacket-pocket camera, but my S7 does a better job for spontaneous stuff with my family, but I hate using my phone, and I really miss the texture and results of a decent camera. So it has me looking again at small compact but large sensor cameras. So, seeing what has changed over the years.
Olympus - The Pen series look nice. Some of them are very affordable. I could probably live with a M43 sensor, but I don't prefer it, simply because I know that most spontaneous shots when I'm with my family are in fairly dim light. I'm ok with high ISO, noise, etc. I shoot an old 5Dc still because it cleans up so easily in post from RAW. But I do worry about a small M43 sensor and noise and ultimately dynamic range as well, at high ISO, in lower light. Don't care about AF, really, because I'd happy to manual focus anyways. But, it has to have a good system for manual focus. The EVF and LCD of these cameras are there, but not sure how well they really handle it.
Sony - I like the smaller A6X00 series bodies, still smaller, and can grab normal glass, and APS-C sensor is a good size for the smaller body. Not happy with the price, would need to find a great used deal. But, cheap glass can be had, though mostly F2.8, other than legacy glass. The idea of focus peaking, eye focus, etc, all looks really great though, and is appealing. I don't care for the body style, but I can overcome that if it's super usable in low light at higher ISO and has great manual focus support features. Worth looking into. I'm always interested in a newer Sony body (The A7S has the features that I'm mostly interested in for a day to day camera, but I don't want yet another big camera system to support).
Fuji - I like the smaller bodies, I like the optical viewfinders, and I'm totally ok with a standard lens and no way to change it. Price is good. Lens is good. Fuji seems to check all the boxes for what I'm looking for in a small compact camera, but, I don't want to get hung up on one thing. The X100 & XPRO1 series seems to have what I'm looking for. I also worry about the RAW support. I'm used to only shooting RAW, but then again, I'm used to really old cameras with poor JPG engines. Maybe a newer camera with a modern JPG engine is fine? Fuji glass looks attractive, but, new costs on some of their nicer glass is really costly. Was also looking at the E1, also affordable, but I guess I need to experience the EVF to know if it's ok for me. Again, I really like manual focus so want tools for good manual focus. The X-E2s is also affordable. Not excited about the pancake 27mm F2.8 lens though. Much more interested in the 23mm F2 pancake (but it's not part of the interchangeable systems) or the 18mm F2 pancake (pricey). The 23 F2 WR is very costly and much bigger. Would definitely prefer a pancake as an option. Again, not looking to have several lenses. Just one.
Leica - Everything I'd love to have, but I won't spend $4k~6k for it. Definitely not for a companion to my other system. Maybe if I ever just completely toss my Canon system and all my lighting. But not today.
I suppose I need to get down to a brick & mortar store and hold a few different models and look through them. See what an EVF is like. See what these hybrid OVF's are like.
I wouldn't worry too much about the smaller sensor size of the M43 cameras, I've seen lots of great images and comparisons with other cameras to prove those little sensors are very capable. The biggest hold up for M43 for me (and I think should be for you) is that adapting legacy glass to them isn't as efficient since your'e 50mm's become 100mm's and so on, to me this greatly limits the use of legacy lenses. Especially since when using a reducer on these lenses it really just pulls the lens closer to what the lens would be like on an APS-C body.
I had an a7S and loved it. I bought it because I realized from my previous cameras that resolution didn't matter much to me and a lot of people reported that it rendered similarly to the original 5D, something I always admired. I loved my a7S and it certainly rendered beautiful images, but just about everything about my Fuji's made me want to use them more. Ultimately I concluded I'd be happier with a full Fuji setup and ditched my a7S in favor of my X-Pro2 and I haven't regretted any part of that switch for a moment. To me the Fuji bodies are much more ergonomic, the lenses are fantastic (and all have aperture rings) and the files are beautiful SOOC, require very little manipulation.
Again, Fuji RAW support is great. If you'd like I can send you some RAWs to play with and you can see for yourself, I have cameras with the 16mp X-TransII sensors as well as the newest 24mp X-TransIII.
If you're not afraid to buy used, the Fuji system can be very cheap. I haven't paid more than $300 for any of my Fuji glass. My 18mm cost me $200, my 35mm was $300 and I had bought my 27mm for $225 (it's a fantastic lens by the way, probably the sharpest Fuji lens I had owned, the only reason I don't have it anymore is that I traded it with my X-E2 straight up for my X100T), you could have a Fuji setup for under $500 easily.
Leica's are great, no doubt. But to me they're way too expensive to fit the role of an everyday camera. One of the smaller reasons I sold my a7S is that I was tired of worrying about my expensive Sony kit all the time. I didn't want to have to fret to much about leaving it in the break room at work, or setting it on a table at a party etc. With my X100T I don't really worry about it at all... yeah, it would suck if someone stole it, but it wouldn't be that expensive to replace either.
If you'd like more thoughts on my switch/thoughts on Fuji compared to other brands, I made a blog post about it a while ago: http://everydaygetaway.blogspot.com ...-full-frame-canon-to.html
Keep in mind that despite what people like to label me as, I'm not a fanboy. If someone else made something that peaked my interest I'd be right there looking at their offerings. If I had the cash lying around I'd love to get one of those new Hassleblad mirrorless cameras And I'm still praying that Canon (or Nikon) will stop messing around and come out with a DSLR the size of their classic ones already... modern digital Canon A-E1? Yes please.
Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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