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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands
Thread started 15 Sep 2017 (Friday) 11:24
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Rangefinder digitals, options?

 
sjones
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Sep 19, 2017 20:50 |  #106

I think everyone here is actually pretty much in agreement that folks should use the camera that best suits their needs or wants. As such, it’s good that there’s broad choice, as has been stated.

Like airfrogusmc, I like to keep it simple, and for that matter, I’m even more archaic in choice, with my rangefinder and lens dating back some 50 to 60 years. And just to make it clear, I’m only speaking for my digs here; I’m not imposing any universal demands on anyone else.

I love my camera, and I love the process involved in its usage, including the tactile delight of the film advance lever. I have no desire for any other camera, which is perhaps a little bit of a drag, because buying gear can be fun. On the other hand, though, it’s nice not being caught in the upgrade whirlpool.

As for the camera’s austerity, it supports the functional and intangible elements of my needs. I’m not in this just “to get the shot”, and enjoying the whole process is important to me. As part of this, I don’t want to have to “ignore” things on my camera, though I don’t expect many folks to understand this personal preference, and that’s fine with me. My style of photography doesn’t require the latest technological advances, or even technological advances introduced three to four decades back. God bless zone focusing!

As such, arguments of convenience and ‘better’ specs are legitimate for their proponents but largely irrelevant to me. After all, I’m sure there are some folks who still like to make pottery with hands instead of using a 3D printer or play a piano instead of using Logic Pro. And then there’s lots of things in-between, of course, whereby, for example, my use of a digital scanner should parry misguided accusations of luddite, except for the fact that I’m going to start making good ol’ wet prints…cannot psychologically get over MY inkjet prints.

Marking my somewhat serious entrance into photography was my purchase of a Canon 350D. Certainly, a 70-200 would soon have to follow, because, you know, zoom and telephoto. However, over the next two and a half years, things effectively headed the opposite direction from what I initially expected, further underscoring the importance of choice. I didn’t even know what a rangefinder was when I bought my 350D.

Right now, Leica makes the only true full frame digital rangefinder camera (and thank you Leica for removing video from the M series). These cameras, however, are expensive and admittedly niche, digital or film. Given this, I would advise the curious to muck about with one for a bit before buying. It’s a different experience, one that frankly most folks do NOT prefer…but airfrogusmc and I do. Again, let’s all be grateful for choice.


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Phoenixkh
a mere speck
Joined May 2011
Gainesville, Florida
Sep 19, 2017 21:54 |  #107

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18455994 (external link)
heres a prime example of different ways of working. Leica M would not be the tool for working like this. I can't work like that. Doesn't mean it is wrong for Charlie and seem like he has the stuff that works for him. That way of working is so far from the way I see and work. So Leica M works for me it would probably not be the choice for Charlie. And thats OK because we have choices.

I have kind of a stupid question... if not stupid, surely ignorant.

As I get older (I'm now 64) and my eye sight isn't spectacular even with glasses.... would I have difficulty focusing a range finder? or would I be better served with a M242 if I were able to go Leica sometime in the future?

Of course, I'd actually try out the Leica cameras in person somewhere. I think a store in Palm Beach stocks them.... Anyway, I'd be interested in your take.


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airfrogusmc
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Joined May 2007
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Sep 19, 2017 22:05 |  #108

Phoenixkh wrote in post #18456220 (external link)
I have kind of a stupid question... if not stupid, surely ignorant.

As I get older (I'm now 64) and my eye sight isn't spectacular even with glasses.... would I have difficulty focusing a range finder? or would I be better served with a M242 if I were able to go Leica sometime in the future?

Of course, I'd actually try out the Leica cameras in person somewhere. I think a store in Palm Beach stocks them.... Anyway, I'd be interested in your take.

I am 62 and my eyes aren't the best either and I could never manually focus for sh*t with a DSLR but I have no problems with rangefinders. The new M 10 because of the viewfinder is the easiest of all the digital Ms I have. It does take a little practice but I actually really enjoy it.

Were you referring to the M 262? It is a fine camera.




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Talley
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Sep 19, 2017 22:13 |  #109

your 62 asking about a M262 kinda ironic huh

40 years of photography means I wasn't even a twinkle in my daddy's eye when you started. I'm a "old" age of 35. God I can see me being 62 soon. Not really looking forward to it. My kids will all age soon and move out then I'll be left with nothing to photograph.

Grandkids?... perhaps not. I'd rather play and enjoy their time since all I do now is work supporting my children. Kinda a catch 22 huh.


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Scottboarding
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Sep 19, 2017 22:30 |  #110

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18456234 (external link)
I am 62 and my eyes aren't the best either and I could never manually focus for sh*t with a DSLR but I have no problems with rangefinders. The new M 10 because of the viewfinder is the easiest of all the digital Ms I have. It does take a little practice but I actually really enjoy it.

Were you referring to the M 262? It is a fine camera.

I fully agree with that point. My main camera lately has been my Nikon FM2 which has the split screen focus screen and even that is difficult at some times. At F1.4 trying to manual focus on anything that isn't a straight line is really difficult; even eyes can be tricky. The two rangefinders I own are an Olympus XA and Yashica Electro 35 GSN. The patch on the XA is horribly dark and almost useless but after doing a trick with black masking tape it's not bad. But the Yashica, which really doesn't have the best rangefinder patch, is still MUCH easier to focus than my Nikon. I looked through a viewfinder of my buddy's Leica M4-P and that rangefinder patch is phenomenal. I don't think glasses will cause any problems.


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Talley
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by Talley. 2 edits done in total.
Sep 19, 2017 22:41 |  #111

I should switch to a rangefinder for my sons sports. Then I can be all hippy and trendy like and the girls would flock to me as some kind of photography god

and then I be like naww girlz... I just be chillin like a chili dog with my rangefinder yo... come see come see... you look through this here viewfinder and all you see is shag carpet and peace symbols you see...

 :p Shoot some sports w/ that rangefinder...

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Phoenixkh
a mere speck
Joined May 2011
Gainesville, Florida
Sep 19, 2017 23:10 |  #112

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18456234 (external link)
I am 62 and my eyes aren't the best either and I could never manually focus for sh*t with a DSLR but I have no problems with rangefinders. The new M 10 because of the viewfinder is the easiest of all the digital Ms I have. It does take a little practice but I actually really enjoy it.

Were you referring to the M 262? It is a fine camera.

I guess I'm at least one model behind. I remember the M 242, I think.... I just checked...and there was an M 242. Anyway, one day, I won't be able to handle heavier gear. I'd love to change what I shoot and switch to Leica at that time.

Thank you for your response. I remember the prisms in the old SLRs.. way before auto focus days. I had no trouble with them either.


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1D IV | 6Dc | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS |100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
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Talley
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Sep 19, 2017 23:59 |  #113

You know... when I get old. I'll be able to afford a real medium format camera like the much larger sensor Phase One XF 100MP that is 53.7mm×40.4mm

I thought about selling everything including the wife and just buying that and carry a 55mm LS 2.8 and a 110mm LS 2.8

maybe then I could finally produce a decent snapshot


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airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
Joined May 2007
Oak Park, Illinois
Sep 20, 2017 07:06 |  #114

Phoenixkh wrote in post #18456271 (external link)
I guess I'm at least one model behind. I remember the M 242, I think.... I just checked...and there was an M 242. Anyway, one day, I won't be able to handle heavier gear. I'd love to change what I shoot and switch to Leica at that time.

Thank you for your response. I remember the prisms in the old SLRs.. way before auto focus days. I had no trouble with them either.

Focus on rangefinders is much different. They are even easier to focus. M 240 had several variants. M 262 was a lighter, quieter shutter and slightly different sensor from the M 240. The M-D was an M 262 without the LCD screen. And the latest monochrom was M 246 IIRC.

The latest offing is the M 10.




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airfrogusmc
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Joined May 2007
Oak Park, Illinois
Post has been edited 29 days ago by airfrogusmc.
Sep 20, 2017 07:11 |  #115

Scottboarding wrote in post #18456248 (external link)
I fully agree with that point. My main camera lately has been my Nikon FM2 which has the split screen focus screen and even that is difficult at some times. At F1.4 trying to manual focus on anything that isn't a straight line is really difficult; even eyes can be tricky. The two rangefinders I own are an Olympus XA and Yashica Electro 35 GSN. The patch on the XA is horribly dark and almost useless but after doing a trick with black masking tape it's not bad. But the Yashica, which really doesn't have the best rangefinder patch, is still MUCH easier to focus than my Nikon. I looked through a viewfinder of my buddy's Leica M4-P and that rangefinder patch is phenomenal. I don't think glasses will cause any problems.

FM2 is a great camera. I had bright plain ground glass in my newer Canon F-1s. I seemed to be able to focus with that better than split screen. That was when the eyes were really good though. I have found that he new M 10 is the easiest of all the digital Ms to focus. I did try out the 50 .95 Noktilux with my original MM and found that to be a lot easier to focus than I thought that it would be.




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airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
Joined May 2007
Oak Park, Illinois
Post has been last edited 29 days ago by airfrogusmc. 2 edits done in total.
Sep 20, 2017 07:19 |  #116

Talley wrote in post #18456253 (external link)
I should switch to a rangefinder for my sons sports. Then I can be all hippy and trendy like and the girls would flock to me as some kind of photography god

and then I be like naww girlz... I just be chillin like a chili dog with my rangefinder yo... come see come see... you look through this here viewfinder and all you see is shag carpet and peace symbols you see...

 :p Shoot some sports w/ that rangefinder...
thumbnailHosted photo: posted by Talley in
./showthread.php?p=184​56253&i=i76304912
forum: Changing Camera Brands

I don't recall anybody saying that you should shoot with a rangefinder. I make a living and support my family with photography so trendy doesn't even enter into the conversation for me. But I guess if someone was wanting to look trendy then trying to look like a real sports photographer with big glass impressing all the soccer moms on sidelines of kids sports could be the ticket.

BTW I don't know if you noticed but the title of the thread is Rangefinder digitals, options.




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airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
Joined May 2007
Oak Park, Illinois
Sep 20, 2017 07:22 |  #117

Talley wrote in post #18456284 (external link)
You know... when I get old. I'll be able to afford a real medium format camera like the much larger sensor Phase One XF 100MP that is 53.7mm×40.4mm

I thought about selling everything including the wife and just buying that and carry a 55mm LS 2.8 and a 110mm LS 2.8

maybe then I could finally produce a decent snapshot

If you make a really good living doing this then they really are just tools and you will buy the tools that best fit the type of work you are making your living at what ever that might be. And as far as making interesting photographs it can't hurt to hope.




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Talley
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Sep 20, 2017 07:38 |  #118

Don't take my playful poking wrong. I agree with ya.

All just tools... I just want the best tools. In my eyes for what I'm trying to do medium format would be the best tool for the output I desire but would be the most out of the ordinary tool to get there.

Mind you... although not optical I do have an XE3 on preorder which is a smaller rangefinder style camera. To me I feel this will allow my travel photography to improve (mostly stamina lol)


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kf095
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Canada, Ontario, Milton
Post has been last edited 29 days ago by kf095. 6 edits done in total.
Sep 20, 2017 13:40 |  #119

Most remarkable Berlin Olympic sport shots where taken with tiny Leica RF. Rodchenko sports shots where also taken well before AF came. Those are iconic (for some of us).
I noticed how RF is superior to typical AF DSLR rig for sports after I tried it for first time. No mirror blackout. With DSLR I have to be predictable at estimate where object is going to be by the time shutter goes on. Because I'm not going to see it then. With RF I press shutter release exactly on the moment I observe.

Par example:

IMAGE: https://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/57736/U57736I1503250273.SEQ.0.jpg

But if you are after your own kiddo at the field, AF will do it better. RF is for different photography. Like Winogrand pro sports shots. Where it is more about the art in photography, than sports.

XE3 looks promising, BTW.

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MalVeauX
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Post has been last edited 26 days ago by MalVeauX. 2 edits done in total.
Sep 23, 2017 18:31 |  #120

Welp, I listed some things to sell. Time to raise some funds.

My 1Ds II, EOS-M kit and some flash kit are all on the books to go bye bye. With funds raised, I'll likely move to a 1D3 (I recently went birding and it's actually weird, but I prefer a crop for birding, so will sell one of my full frames) and a Fuji X100S, with a bit out of pocket to go that way.

Looking back over everything, I have gone over the Sony options, Fuji and a few M43 options again. Deep down I'd love to get a full on full frame Sony with eye/face detect. But, I recently found one piece of media that finally swayed my choice on what I will try for a small large sensor compact. I looked at the size comparison of a Fuji X100 series to the EOS-M and it was like 10~15mm difference overall in HxL. It's still very small. The EOS-M is very small to me (for the sensor size). I'm already completely happy with a 35mm FOV, so it seems this is the right way to go for my check boxes. The size really got me though. I thought it would be big. But it's quite small. Especially in the context of my 5D or 1Ds series bodies which are much bigger and far far heavier.

So the shopping begins. I'm thinking an X100S will do the job.

Thanks to everyone for the opinions and ideas.

I'll report back when I have something in my hands.

Very best,


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