Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing
Thread started 12 Oct 2017 (Thursday) 16:00
Prev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

De sharpening jpegs

 
Pagman
I just hold the thing :-)
Pagman's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
Oct 12, 2017 16:00 |  #1

Can anyone throw some ideas my way of the best way to get rid of those over sharpened jpeg images, that contain slight halos and slight jpeg artifacts.
They are not the original full size raw - jpegs but cropped copies, they were from the days when I used to over sharpen images, but wondered if there was anyway to rescue them.

P.


Nikon D7100, Nikkor 300 f4 IF ED :-)

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
Peano
Goldmember
Peano's Avatar
1,632 posts
Joined Aug 2007
Oct 12, 2017 18:16 |  #2

Can you show one, actual size?


---
Peano
RadiantPics.comexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
Pagman
THREAD ­ STARTER
I just hold the thing :-)
Pagman's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
Oct 12, 2017 18:44 |  #3

Peano wrote in post #18471410 (external link)
Can you show one, actual size?

Here's a rough idea - it was shot with not the sharpest lens at its weakest point, so I over sharpened it to a degree.

P.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

Nikon D7100, Nikkor 300 f4 IF ED :-)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Pagman
THREAD ­ STARTER
I just hold the thing :-)
Pagman's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
Oct 12, 2017 18:49 |  #4

And another one -

I was just wondering if there is a way to recover pictures like this using some of the tools I have like LR5 and the google nik collection software.

P.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

Nikon D7100, Nikkor 300 f4 IF ED :-)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Dan ­ Marchant
Goldmember
Dan Marchant's Avatar
Joined Oct 2011
Where I'm from is unimportant, it's where I'm going that counts.
Oct 12, 2017 23:15 as a reply to Pagman's post |  #5

The best way would be to go back to the original RAW file and reprocess the image. You can't load that JPG back into Lightroom and unsharpen it because the processing is baked in and the rest of the data has been discarded.

If that JPG is all you have the only way to remove the problem would be to load it into Photoshop or a similar pixel editor, zooming in and manually editing all around the subject using the clone and pen tools to repair the damage.


Dan Marchant
Website/blog: danmarchant.com (external link)
Instagram: @dan_marchant (external link)
Gear Canon 5DIII + Fuji X-T2 + lenses + a plastic widget I found in the camera box.

LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Moderator
PhotosGuy's Avatar
74,881 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Joined Feb 2004
Middle of Michigan
Oct 12, 2017 23:52 |  #6

I agree. You would probably get better results in less time if you started over with the RAW files.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1280 pixels on any side.

LOG IN TO REPLY
BigAl007
Cream of the Crop
Joined Dec 2010
Repps cum Bastwick, Gt Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK.
Oct 13, 2017 06:29 |  #7

Yes go back to the RAWs if you still have them, it's by far the best way. Even so with some of the images you may find that you need to use carefully applied local sharpening, or even de-sharpening, remember that you can load a local brush with negative sharpening too. Even if you use high levels of masking in LR the mask around the outside of the aircraft can be too wide. So painting some negative sharpening in across the halo can often work wonders. It will also get rid of the really dark line on the aircraft side that you also get with oversharpening. This does take a lot of finesse when applying though, this is when I am most grateful for my pen tablet, I have an old cheap Trust unit rather than a Wacom, but it works great when painting on the image. Trust don't make them anymore, but there are no end of cheap chinese Wacom clones on Amazon.

Sometimes even using all of the tools in Lr, I still need to take the image into Ps to deal with halos, sometimes on a really high contrast edge you will see a halo even with zero sharpening applied to the RAW. In those cases I will usually clone some sky in around the edge of the aircraft on a new layer, you need to make sure that the clone tool is set to this layer and below for this to work. It is much better to work on a new layer because there is a handy trick you can use if you struggle to paint up to the outline of the aircraft. Just copy the original layer, then create a layer mask on the new cloning layer. Paste the copy of the image to the layer mask channel, it will be converted to monochrome as you paste. Then just use the Threshold tool to convert the mask to full black/white. Adjust the threshold level until you get as much of the aircraft to be black, while the sky stays white. You might have to paint in some of the aircraft, but it should give you an effective mask for the edge of the subject. I would also set the blend mode of the layer to darken, as this will darken lighter colours, while not affecting the darker areas nearly as much.

This trick is really useful where you need to clone out something in a background, and you have a relatively complex subject. Instead of painting the cloned area up to the boundary carefully, as I usually do, you make a new background without worrying about the subject. Then just use the layer mask to cut out the subject. very useful where you have say an old warbird taking off, and a something modern is in the background directly behind the aircraft that you want removed. Clone in airfield and mask. I Know that a lot of people are using the pen tool to create the mask/selection, but I have always struggled with the pen tool, so prefer to use use the normal painting tools to create masks.

I actually use these techniques the most to add a little colour to those horrid grey overcast skies we so often get. I'll add a gradient layer in a light blue colour to just tone things down a bit. One of the standard gradients, when you select a new Gradient layer is transparent to solid, and I use that, reversed, as you want it darker at the top, and with the scale set to 300%, so it doesn't get all the way to clear at the bottom. I again set the layer to the Darken blend mode and use a layer mask over the aircraft. I might use a mid gray mask on glazed or very highly reflective parts of the aircraft so that some of the blue shows through. If you look at my recent Duxford thread in Transport you will see this effect applied in at least one of the images. I might even do this where I am going to do a black and white conversion, just so that there is a bit more detail in the sky.

I don't know if you have Ps, but Adobe have Ps CS2 available on their website with a freely available licence key. Everything I have mentioned is available in CS2.

Alan


My Flickr (external link)
My new Aviation images blog site (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
TeamSpeed's Avatar
32,425 posts
Gallery: 63 photos
Joined May 2002
Northern Indiana
Oct 13, 2017 07:46 |  #8

I concur with the others, going back to the original is always better, this is why we seem to always archive our raws or lossless tiffs.

If you have time on your hands or don't have the original, you could try the blur brush in photoshop with layers to try to undo some of the sharpness, but doing more digital manipulation over what is already baked in will likely just create other artifacts you won't like.


Past Equipment | My Gallery (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Moderator
PhotosGuy's Avatar
74,881 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Joined Feb 2004
Middle of Michigan
Oct 13, 2017 09:50 |  #9

BigAl007 wrote in post #18471730 (external link)
... I Know that a lot of people are using the pen tool to create the mask/selection, but I have always struggled with the pen tool, so prefer to use use the normal painting tools to create masks.

Without having a tablet, I find that this works pretty good: Selecting areas in PS. Maybe there's a similar tool in LR?


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1280 pixels on any side.

LOG IN TO REPLY
Pagman
THREAD ­ STARTER
I just hold the thing :-)
Pagman's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
Oct 13, 2017 12:40 |  #10

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18471842 (external link)
Without having a tablet, I find that this works pretty good: Selecting areas in PS. Maybe there's a similar tool in LR?


I have LR5 as my default editor, I often use the brush tool but found using the negative sharpness and clarity sliders starting at small amounts say -10, the result was it kept the halo but just lightened it but it was still visible.
I probably need to experiment more just wondered if there was an easier way.

P.


Nikon D7100, Nikkor 300 f4 IF ED :-)

LOG IN TO REPLY
BigAl007
Cream of the Crop
Joined Dec 2010
Repps cum Bastwick, Gt Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK.
Oct 13, 2017 15:37 |  #11

Pagman wrote in post #18471948 (external link)
I have LR5 as my default editor, I often use the brush tool but found using the negative sharpness and clarity sliders starting at small amounts say -10, the result was it kept the halo but just lightened it but it was still visible.
I probably need to experiment more just wondered if there was an easier way.

P.


If you go back to the RAW and set the global sharpening to 0 and still see the halo then you will need to move to ps to do anything about it. With aircraft against the sky you can usually get away with just applying the sharpening with the local brush. You don't need or want any sharpening on the sky anyway. Just make sure that you don't go all the way to the outside edge of the aircraft. If after this you still have a bit of a halo you will need to use Ps with layers and masks to get what you need.

If you made the mistake of only keeping the JPEG files then I don't think that Lr is the tool you need. You are already stuck with using RGB pixels, and a dedicated RGB pixel editor like Ps is the tool for job. If you have a dig around the Adobe website you will find the link to download PS CS2 along with an activation code. Even CS 2 will do what you need to do. I really started out with the original Elements, that came bundled with my 300D, and even that version of PSE would do what is required. The only thing is that like all things in life, the results may still not be great, and it will take a lot of time. Although you'll get a bit quicker with practice.

Alan


My Flickr (external link)
My new Aviation images blog site (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Pagman
THREAD ­ STARTER
I just hold the thing :-)
Pagman's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
Oct 13, 2017 16:31 |  #12

BigAl007 wrote in post #18472048 (external link)
If you go back to the RAW and set the global sharpening to 0 and still see the halo then you will need to move to ps to do anything about it. With aircraft against the sky you can usually get away with just applying the sharpening with the local brush. You don't need or want any sharpening on the sky anyway. Just make sure that you don't go all the way to the outside edge of the aircraft. If after this you still have a bit of a halo you will need to use Ps with layers and masks to get what you need.

If you made the mistake of only keeping the JPEG files then I don't think that Lr is the tool you need. You are already stuck with using RGB pixels, and a dedicated RGB pixel editor like Ps is the tool for job. If you have a dig around the Adobe website you will find the link to download PS CS2 along with an activation code. Even CS 2 will do what you need to do. I really started out with the original Elements, that came bundled with my 300D, and even that version of PSE would do what is required. The only thing is that like all things in life, the results may still not be great, and it will take a lot of time. Although you'll get a bit quicker with practice.

Alan


I did have a quick look on adobe's site and could not see it.

P.


Nikon D7100, Nikkor 300 f4 IF ED :-)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Pagman
THREAD ­ STARTER
I just hold the thing :-)
Pagman's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
Oct 13, 2017 16:51 |  #13

Pagman wrote in post #18472084 (external link)
I did have a quick look on adobe's site and could not see it.

P.

Just found Ps 2 - downloading it now.

P.


Nikon D7100, Nikkor 300 f4 IF ED :-)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Pagman
THREAD ­ STARTER
I just hold the thing :-)
Pagman's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
Post has been edited 2 months ago by Pagman.
Oct 13, 2017 18:58 |  #14

I have Ps Cs2 installed now - Wow what a learning curve. just tried a quick go - I have it so it opens up from inside LR5 using the Photo - Edit in menu, this then opens up Cs2 but how do I get the edited file to save back into LR5?

I have found out how to save back into LR, just getting my head round the learning curve of CS2 now.

P.


Nikon D7100, Nikkor 300 f4 IF ED :-)

LOG IN TO REPLY
BigAl007
Cream of the Crop
Joined Dec 2010
Repps cum Bastwick, Gt Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK.
Oct 14, 2017 06:26 |  #15

Just so you know what is needed when you work in CS2 with a RAW CR2 or NEF file, if you go back to any of your older RAWs, Lr will throw up a warning that you have an incompatible version of ACR don't worry. You will be offered two options, the one you need to chose is have Lr render the image.

Normally Lr passes the list of settings to ACR and that then opens the image directly in Ps. You do your edits and then hit save, and Ps then creates the file as set in the Lr preferences. As well as creating the file it is also added to the Lr catalogue and stacked with the original image. If you don't save the file then nothing is created at all. If you use Save As the file will be created, using the parameters that you choose, but the image will not be added to Lr. This is fine if the version of Ps is the same or newer than your version of Ps, since ACR can understand all of the commands that are sent to it. If though you have an older version of Ps the correspondingly older version of ACR will choke on any unknown commands. CS2 definitely counts as an older version;).

So if you have that older version of ACR you get the choice of letting ACR go at it anyway, since the earliest version of Ps that has any support for PV2012 is the last CS5 release of ACR this is not going to be of help to you. So instead you have Lr render the image. This process is kind of the reverse of what happens when ACR renders. Lr creates the file, again based on the settings in preferences, adds it to the catalogue and then opens the file in Ps. You then just use the Save command in Ps and the file will be saved, Lr will see that the file has been changed and it automatically updates the preview that you see in Lr.

All that is fine for RAW files, but what if you are starting out with RGB files be they PSD, TIFF or JPEG? In that case you get a different option box come up, this has several options:



  1. Edit a copy with Lr adjustments. This applies any adjustments that you have made to the image in Lr and creates a copy of that file that it opens in Ps. It's pretty obvious when to use this option.

  2. Edit a Copy. This again creates a copy of the file, which is then opened in PS. In this case it doesn't incorporate any non destructive edits you might have added in Lr. You would use this option where your RGB file is the original file, such as an OOC JPEG, and you don't want to make any changes to the original image data.

  3. Edit Original. Use this option with care, since it just opens the file that is on disk in Ps. Use this where you have a system where you keep the master edit in an uncompressed (or at least lossless compression) format such as PSD or TIFF. If you realise that you need to make a change to this master edit you would use this option. If you use this option and you have made any edits to or VC's from it in Lr you must remember that when you save this file it will update all of those too, since they are all based on the same original image file. ONLY use this if you want to change the original file.


With all of these options you use the Save command so that the changes will make their way back into your Lr catalogue without the need for you to add them manually. This is why you have to use the save command, as where necessary Lr has already created the new file that you would get from using the Save As command. If you do an Edit Original, and then use Save AS you don't overwrite the original file, but the new file that is created at the end of the process is not added to your Lr catalogue. I never do this, since I'm likely at some point to accidentally save over the original by mistake, I use Ctrl+S a lot to save documents, and anyway if you use Lr for managing images you don't really want images on the system that are not in the catalogue.

You probably got a copy of Bridge installed too, I really like Bridge as a file manager for images and other Adobe file formats. One thing that I will suggest is creating a free Adobe CC account, since you can now download and use the latest version of Bridge for free. I like it because it will show you your RAW files as previews, and if you save the xmp files from Lr as well, it will show you your Lr edits, star ratings colour labels etc in the previews, along with all the metadata. You can even toggle to a full screen preview just by hitting the spacebar. I think that even if you don't regularly use Adobe products if you work with images and the like a lot is is well worth having as a file manager.

Alan

My Flickr (external link)
My new Aviation images blog site (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

4,397 views & 5 likes for this thread
De sharpening jpegs
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing


Not a member yet? Click here to register to the forums.
Registered members get all the features: search, following threads, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, settings, view hosted photos, own reviews and more...


AAA

Send feedback to staff    •   Jump to forum...    •   Rules    •   Index    •   New posts    •   RTAT    •   'Best of'    •   Gallery    •   Gear    •   Reviews    •   Polls

COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Privacy policy and cookie usage info.

POWERED BY AMASS 1.4version 1.4
made in Finland
by Pekka Saarinen
for photography-on-the.net
Spent 0.00124 for 6 database queries.
PAGE COMPLETED IN 0.03s
Latest registered member is bburnett71
919 guests, 451 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017