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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 12 Oct 2017 (Thursday) 18:27
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You've got no gear at all - Would you get a 5DMKIV or D850

 
wallstreetoneil
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Post edited 6 months ago by wallstreetoneil. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 17, 2017 08:53 |  #106

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18474583 (external link)
Dpreview has their review up, and it's funny looking thru the posts on the fm Nikon board. AF issues, need more shutter to not show shake, etc...


I can tell you, after owning and shooting 2 5DSRs for 1 full wedding season, that this will be the #1 issue by far with the D850.

The counter argument from the same 5 people, over and over, is that it is impossible for a higher megapixel camera not to out resolve the lower mega-pixel camera.

The reality of the human brain is that the higher megapixels creates a sharper more defined area of tack sharp focus and then the graduation begins away from this area - and then the human brain picks this up and sees all the areas that are not 'in-focus'.

When you combine the above, with scrolling through your latest 100 pictures you just took in your LR catalog, you are then further pissed that only a few are really, really sharp (i.e. why you bought the new fancy camera) - and you then ask what is wrong? Then you start running experiments to see what it takes to absolutely nail it focus wise - and then you lose your mind about all your non IS lens, your inability to really calm your hands, did you drink too much coffee, etc, etc, etc.

Nikon is going to cost all new D850 owners a lot of money because while they just bought a nice new $4,000 camera (with grip and battery), they are going to almost certainly now want the very expensive Nikon 24-70 F2.8 VR - and then they are going to want a non existent 85 1.4 VR, a 105 F1.4 VR, etc, etc. - alternatively, I think for near certainty, Nikon is going to singlehandedly sell more Tamron 24-70 F2.8 VCs than Tamron could ever imagine selling on their own.

I can't believe I'm even saying this, but I'm considering selling a 5DSR and an A7Rii and picking up a D850 with a few Tamron stabilized lenses


Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited 6 months ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Oct 17, 2017 10:40 |  #107

iAMB wrote in post #18474243 (external link)
My choice came down to how the lens zoomed. I preferred Canon counter-clockwise motion to zoom in, over Nikon's clockwise.

With Nikon it felt my hand required to be 'ontop' of the lens. Canon my hand was underneith


Really? You'd chose an entire system based on that? Fascinating!

As someone that has spent a lot of time with many excellent 3rd party lenses, I do not have a built in assumption for how a lens zooms or focuses, I just use the direction that the lens uses without thinking, so this is truly an amazing concept to me. (the only preference I have for zooming is I wish more lenses would let me trombone them like the old 100-400mm :) )


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arthurbikemad
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Oct 17, 2017 10:51 |  #108

Canon, 90 Million people can't be wrong! :-P Mind you, I own two  :p

"United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, 17 October 2017—Canon Inc. announced today that the Company has reached two major production milestones—a cumulative total of 90 million interchangeable-lens EOS cameras and 130 million EF-series interchangeable lenses. The EOS 5D Mark IV was the 90 millionth EOS Series camera range to be produced, while an EF16-35mm f/2.8L III USM became the Company’s 130 millionth interchangeable lens."




  
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TeamSpeed
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Post edited 6 months ago by TeamSpeed. (5 edits in all)
     
Oct 17, 2017 11:09 |  #109

arthurbikemad wrote in post #18474725 (external link)
Canon, 90 Million people can't be wrong! :-P Mind you, I own two  :p

"United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, 17 October 2017—Canon Inc. announced today that the Company has reached two major production milestones—a cumulative total of 90 million interchangeable-lens EOS cameras and 130 million EF-series interchangeable lenses. The EOS 5D Mark IV was the 90 millionth EOS Series camera range to be produced, while an EF16-35mm f/2.8L III USM became the Company’s 130 millionth interchangeable lens."

However notice they don't tell us the number of units sent back that end up on their refurb store... Also this includes all the film iterations too, which matter little to me when discussing DSLRs, correct? They just say EOS cameras, which goes back to the 35mm film days.

Nikon is right behind with over 100 million interchangeable lenses as well, the two companies are within striking distance with each other. They were at 95M for lenses more than 2 years ago.


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Charlie
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Oct 17, 2017 11:21 |  #110

arthurbikemad wrote in post #18474725 (external link)
Canon, 90 Million people can't be wrong! :-P Mind you, I own two  :p

"United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, 17 October 2017—Canon Inc. announced today that the Company has reached two major production milestones—a cumulative total of 90 million interchangeable-lens EOS cameras and 130 million EF-series interchangeable lenses. The EOS 5D Mark IV was the 90 millionth EOS Series camera range to be produced, while an EF16-35mm f/2.8L III USM became the Company’s 130 millionth interchangeable lens."

DSLR's have been losing market shares for many consecutive years now. The FD mount produced millions of lenses I'm sure. Blackberry was selling 10+ million units per quarter at one point.

Just because a product sells well, it doesnt mean that future products dont need to earn their keep.


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TeamSpeed
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Oct 17, 2017 11:37 |  #111

Again, making a decision on which camera based on market share or volume doesn't make or break a Nikon vs Canon decision, other than if you are bothered by the financial liabilities Nikon might be at this point.


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Mathmans
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Oct 18, 2017 07:42 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #112

The pixel density on D850 sensor is lower then on my crop sensor.
I don't know about the shake and high megapixel full frame sensors but I have 24Mpix crop sensor without anti aliasing filter and I don't have any problems with a shake or not sharp images. This also goes for my friend with Samsung NX1 which has even larger pixel density (crop sensor with 28 Mpix).

By the way; zoom on my Sigma 17-50 f2.8 lens turns "the other way" as my Nikon lenses but I have no problem using it. If someone can't adapt to this small thing, then...well...don't know what to say. I also have Canon camera and I have no hard time using it or go to the menus and find something.
I respect all opinions. Whatever you use to make photos is fine for me. If you don't like Nikon menus, grips and that the zoom turns the wrong way and lenses mount the wrong way is also perfectly fine by me.
What strikes me is inability to learn and adopt new things.




  
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TeamSpeed
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Oct 18, 2017 07:52 |  #113

Mathmans wrote in post #18475251 (external link)
The pixel density on D850 sensor is lower then on my crop sensor.
I don't know about the shake and high megapixel full frame sensors but I have 24Mpix crop sensor and I don't have any problems with a shake or not sharp images. This also goes for my friend with Samsung NX1 which has even larger pixel density (28 Mpix).

Higher density sensors "magnify" the shake more when you zoom in near 100%. Shake is no worse physically, there are just more pixels to pick up on it, and the same effect you get with "effective reach" on a crop body where you can crop and it looks like you zoom in, the same effect occurs with any motion in the image.


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Post edited 6 months ago by mystik610.
     
Oct 18, 2017 10:17 |  #114

If we're talking starting from scratch, picking a system based purely on what is familiar is the wrong way to approach things, particularly if the alternatives have compelling upsides. I think a lot of people are resistant to change when it comes to photography, but cameras are technological things, and sometimes change is good. It takes maybe a month of solid shooting to fully get comfortable shooting with a new system.


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Post edited 6 months ago by aladyforty.
     
Oct 18, 2017 19:37 |  #115

I originally went with Canon for the prime lenses, I really wanted to get the 400 F5.6L for wildlife which was affordable at the time and Nikon did not have that lens, generally Canon had more choices lens wise. Im unsure if that is still the case but it would take a lot to move me away from the L lenses. Ive used a Nikon with their 135F2 and to be honest it does not match the 135F2L. So if i was starting from scratch it would be more about lenses than the body, camera bodies come and go but the lenses for me are the deal breaker


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Charlie
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Oct 18, 2017 20:31 |  #116

aladyforty wrote in post #18475649 (external link)
I originally went with Canon for the prime lenses, I really wanted to get the 400 F5.6L for wildlife which was affordable at the time and Nikon did not have that lens, generally Canon had more choices lens wise. Im unsure if that is still the case but it would take a lot to move me away from the L lenses. Ive used a Nikon with their 135F2 and to be honest it does not match the 135F2L. So if i was starting from scratch it would be more about lenses than the body, camera bodies come and go but the lenses for me are the deal breaker

that's ok, the sigma 135A blows the L out of the water. I wouldnt even be surprised if it were sharper than the 200 f2L. I dont like using it due to the size, but it's hell of a stunner.

only downside is the cost, being quite a bit more than the L.


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Post edited 6 months ago by Scoobert. (3 edits in all)
     
Oct 18, 2017 22:29 |  #117

I have shot canon since my AE-1.

I would jump on that D850 in a heartbeat over the 5div. Canon just seems like they refuse to lead anymore. When the 5div came out it was no better than the D810 that was several years old. The 6dii continued this same rehash the old stuff laying around instead of doing any R&D. The could have released the 6dii 3 years ago and it would have been behind other cameras.

The 5diii will most likely be my last canon, even with being already into the eco system for a couple reasons.

1. Canon does not wish to lead anymore. Instead of coming out with features to compete with other camera companies they gimp their bodies so the dont compete to well with other canons.
2. Canons absolute refusal to remove the blur filter on the full frame cameras. There is zero reason to have an AA filter anymore and every camera company can see that but canon.
3. Tamron and sigma are making so many good lenses now that you are not stuck with the super expensive lenses made by Canon/Nikon (ie the $4K 70-200 VR) .


I am trying to figure out how to dump my canon stuff now to afford a D850, if I had nothing it would be a very simple choice.




  
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Charlie
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Oct 18, 2017 22:56 |  #118

Scoobert wrote in post #18475725 (external link)
I have shot canon since my AE-1.

I would jump on that D850 in a heartbeat over the 5div. Canon just seems like they refuse to lead anymore. When the 5div came out it was no better than the D810 that was several years old. The 6dii continued this same rehash the old stuff laying around instead of doing any R&D. The could have released the 6dii 3 years ago and it would have been behind other cameras.

The 5diii will most likely be my last canon, even with being already into the eco system for a couple reasons.

1. Canon does not wish to lead anymore. Instead of coming out with features to compete with other camera companies they gimp their bodies so the dont compete to well with other canons.
2. Canons absolute refusal to remove the blur filter on the full frame cameras. There is zero reason to have an AA filter anymore and every camera company can see that but canon.
3. Tamron and sigma are making so many good lenses now that you are not stuck with the super expensive lenses made by Canon/Nikon (ie the $4K 70-200 VR) .


I am trying to figure out how to dump my canon stuff now to afford a D850, if I had nothing it would be a very simple choice.

Canon is onto a good thing, they still have a commanding market share, so they'll milk every last bit until their pockets hurt. They probably have internal research that suggests camera phones are the biggest threat, and they cant really do much about that, so milk on.

Us avid photogs are a dying breed, our choices are limited, we are at the mercy of the few.


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Oct 19, 2017 01:12 |  #119

with such high resolution from D850 / 5DsR.

I read that the minimum shutter speed recommended would be two times of the inverse focal length :

i.e: 50mm -> 1/ 125s


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Oct 19, 2017 01:18 |  #120

Charlie wrote in post #18475674 (external link)
that's ok, the sigma 135A blows the L out of the water. I wouldnt even be surprised if it were sharper than the 200 f2L. I dont like using it due to the size, but it's hell of a stunner.

only downside is the cost, being quite a bit more than the L.

I think you may be right about the 135 1.8 vs the 200L.

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You've got no gear at all - Would you get a 5DMKIV or D850
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