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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Macro Talk
Thread started 30 Sep 2017 (Saturday) 21:42
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Is this considered image thievery?

 
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Oct 03, 2017 05:56 |  #16

I keep flip flopping on this one. I do tend to agree with the above which is what I was trying to say initially ... Flickr would probably not provide the API if the terms for image uploaders did not specifically address the issue.

But then the terms for the API user state that the API user must work with the photographer to get their permission. So what tools are provided to gain/give this permission?

This Facebook group is hosted by a photographer/lawyer and sometimes provides a good resource for these issues. Just beware that you likely won't hear from the lawyer herself, and some of the advice will claim to know exactly what is going on with no basis in reality.

https://m.facebook.com​/groups/39997410341244​9 (external link)

Might be worth a shot, as someone there might have dealt with it before. If you ask there, try to be concise but thorough in your first post. Rather than posting the terms, and examples, just link to them.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Oct 05, 2017 06:26 |  #17

I suspect this is normal practice for any search engine, the benefit is you get more traffic if the user clicks on an image.

If you want your images to be searchable but to stop this particular site I am not sure you could do that from flickr. Perhaps from your own site by blocking their IP address, however all your site might see is a a request from the user IP.

Using a different gallery software on your own site should preclude this sort of usage but may give you less exposure.


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TeamSpeed
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by TeamSpeed. 18 edits done in total.
Oct 05, 2017 07:34 |  #18

They are not directly making money on the images, so it would be hard to show that they are using one's images without permission to create revenue. Their revenue would be derived from traffic to their site as people use it to search. If the images link to the owner's actual content, it becomes doubly difficult to show where one has a loss due to their images showing up elsewhere.

This is taken from a copyright law site.

Google is a search engine that helps you locate content such as images and photos. It is not a content depository, and it is not a collection of public domain or copyright-free works. Google directs you to images and photos and other online content according to your search criteria. Once you find that perfect image or photo, you must treat that image like any other content you find online.

As such, you could just take Google out of this quote, and replace it with any other search-type engine/site. This means that Google, Yahoo, etc already have set legal precedent, and it would be nearly impossible to fight that precedent with any other type of search engine style site.

Where this site for the snakes might have legal copyright risk is in the area of Attribution. I feel that Flickr should also be supplying the owner info all the API returns now is the Flicker USER id, not the name), and that site needs to put an attribution footer under each image. That would eliminate all legal risk at that point, in my opinion however valuable that is.

Attribution Laws Summary wrote:
Attribution is the act of regarding a quality or feature as a characteristic or inherent part of someone or something. The act of attributing, especially the act of establishing a particular person as the creator of a work of art.

Here is the Flickr API Return, it would be nice if it also returned the user name, but that might introduce other issues, like identify info. At the very least, the snake DB site could put "Flickr Owner: #####@###" under each photo, but that is pretty cryptic.

FLICKR SEARCH wrote:
<photos page="2" pages="89" perpage="10" total="881">
<photo id="2636" owner="47058503995@N01​"
secret="a123456" server="2" title="test_04"
ispublic="1" isfriend="0" isfamily="0" />
<photo id="2635" owner="47058503995@N01​"
secret="b123456" server="2" title="test_03"
ispublic="0" isfriend="1" isfamily="1" />
<photo id="2633" owner="47058503995@N01​"
secret="c123456" server="2" title="test_01"
ispublic="1" isfriend="0" isfamily="0" />
<photo id="2610" owner="12037949754@N01​"
secret="d123456" server="2" title="00_tall"
ispublic="1" isfriend="0" isfamily="0" />
</photos>

This attribution law is one of the reasons Pekka, I assume, requires us to always attribute the owner of any image we place in our posts if they are not our own. He is asking us to follow basic law, and also remove any risk of legal action, despite the fact he runs this site free of charge and doesn't derive revenue from the images, directly or indirectly. No to mention, it is simply the proper thing to do, despite laws.

Also, as LHB points out above, this is one of the API terms from Flickr.

FLICKR Terms wrote:
Comply with any requirements or restrictions imposed on usage of the photos by their respective owners. Remember, Flickr doesn't own the images - Flickr users do. Although the Flickr APIs can be used to provide you with access to Flickr user photos, neither Flickr's provision of the Flickr APIs to you nor your use of the Flickr APIs override the photo owners' requirements and restrictions, which may include "all rights reserved" notices (attached to each photo by default when uploaded to Flickr), Creative Commons licenses or other terms and conditions that may be agreed upon between you and the owners. In ALL cases, you are solely responsible for making use of Flickr photos in compliance with the photo owners' requirements or restrictions. If you use Flickr photos for a commercial purpose, the photos must be marked with a Creative Commons license that allows for such use, and also comply with the requirements for each license, unless otherwise agreed upon between you and the owner. You can read more about this here: www.creativecommons.or​g (external link) or www.flickr.com/creativ​ecommons (external link).

So it is possible that the snakedb site isn't complying with the Flickr terms, and if there is concern around this, report the site to Flickr. While the site may possibly be legal in terms of copyright infringement, they might be breaking Flickr terms, which is also legally actionable.


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Dalantech
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by Dalantech.
Oct 08, 2017 07:32 |  #19

Kurt this is an example of image theft (external link) -and because it seems to be just an add site it's almost impossible to get a hold of someone to take it down. Fortunately it's not one of my better photos:

IMAGE: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2526/4143486687_043c18c22c_z.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/7j9s​eD] (external link)Slurp V (external link) by John Kimbler (external link), on Flickr

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TeamSpeed
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Oct 08, 2017 23:03 as a reply to Dalantech's post |  #20

Have you tried to report them to Amazon?


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Dalantech
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by Dalantech. 2 edits done in total.
Oct 09, 2017 06:21 |  #21

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18468746 (external link)
Have you tried to report them to Amazon?

Not sure that would help unless the domain is hosted on their servers.

Edit: They are a member in an Amazon advertising group, but Amazon wouldn't have any control over them (other than to potentially pull adds). Most of the advertising on that domain isn't coming from Amazon. They have a contact form, but the site is so "sleazy" they'll probably just sell my email address to spammers.

Edit #2: On the off chance that they might be able to contact the owner of the site I sent Amazon an email via their associate program contact form.


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TeamSpeed
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Oct 09, 2017 07:23 |  #22

They are hosted by GoDaddy, you might be able to report to the GoDaddy abuse helpdesk.

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Dalantech
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Oct 09, 2017 15:40 |  #23

Amazon's response:

Hello,

Thank you for letting us know that this member may be violating our Operating Agreement.

I've sent this information to the appropriate department for investigation. Help like yours is invaluable as we work to ensure that all members are working within our guidelines.

We look forward to seeing you again soon.

We'd appreciate your feedback. Please use the buttons below to vote about your experience today.

Best regards,
Mallory M.


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Dalantech
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Oct 19, 2017 10:48 |  #24

Here's an example of what you were concerned about Kurt. Many moons ago I gave the NASA Earth Observatory web site permission to use a couple of my images for an article on bees (external link). One of them is this shot:

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1438/1093856202_113843bb8c_z.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/2EEi​kG] (external link)Bees in the Pumpkin Flowers series 1-6 (external link) by John Kimbler (external link), on Flickr

P.S. I know the light sucks -I took it over a decade ago. Well a blogger decided to direct link to the same image for a blog post (external link), effectively removing my copyright while also stealing bandwidth from the Earth Observatory. I left a comment on the post explaining how to use the sharing function at Flickr, and hopefully the author of the blog will change the image link. Funny that there is a photo credit to the Earth Observatory under the photo, but that's not how it should be done.

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TeamSpeed
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Oct 19, 2017 11:26 |  #25

In the US, hotlinking an image (not really different from putting a hyperlink to the image, just rendered differently) has been ruled as not being an infringement. Now laws elsewhere might take a different stance. That being said, we actually have 2 legal precedents laid out that are in conflict with each other, the 2007 ruling from a higher court vs the 1998 ruling from a lower court.

http://timjackson.pro ...hers-be-worried-about-it/ (external link)


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Dalantech
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Oct 19, 2017 15:15 |  #26

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18476045 (external link)
In the US, hotlinking an image (not really different from putting a hyperlink to the image, just rendered differently) has been ruled as not being an infringement. Now laws elsewhere might take a different stance. That being said, we actually have 2 legal precedents laid out that are in conflict with each other, the 2007 ruling from a higher court vs the 1998 ruling from a lower court.

http://timjackson.pro ...hers-be-worried-about-it/ (external link)

I don't jump straight to legal action -I try to handle it nicely. But at best the blogger is eating up the NASA Earth Observatory's bandwidth, at worst they're doing that and eroding my copyright.


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Is this considered image thievery?
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