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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 08 May 2017 (Monday) 20:07
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davesrose
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Post edited 4 months ago by davesrose. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 20, 2017 13:14 as a reply to  @ post 18522628 |  #661

The Nikon Df was meant to have similar controls as the Nikon FM, but it in no way has similar size and weight as the FM. AF can add weight and diameter to a lens, but not necessarily length (as evidence in the 800mm FD vd EF example I just gave). M 4/3 and APS mirrorless systems were designed as a system, so their lenses can be inherently smaller in size and weight. DSLRs were designed around 35mm film format, even though they first utilized crop sensors.

Here's a size comparison of the Nikon Df with Nikon FM2 and Leica M9:


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EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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EverydayGetaway
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Dec 20, 2017 13:57 |  #662

Charlie wrote in post #18522594 (external link)
Nikon DF

tried and failed, that flange distance will mean that lenses 85mm and smaller will be larger.

Nikon Df is not at all what I'm talking about... that thing was huge and heavy.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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Wilt
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Post edited 4 months ago by Wilt. (3 edits in all)
     
Dec 20, 2017 13:59 |  #663

Charlie wrote in post #18522628 (external link)
I havent used older MF cams and was under the impression that the DF was a "smaller" dslr.

The older MF lenses like the AIS from nikon, are relatively small, but they also have no AF motors. Many lenses cant quite match the size of current mirrorless options.

AF motors might make for a larger barrel diameter, but the FL itself should not force lens dimension much.

  • In the case of the Olympus OM 135 f/2.8 lens it is 80mm from front of lens to the mating surface of the lens (not including the mount itself);
    the body of OM-1 is 49mm from lens mount front to back of body.
  • In the case of the Canon EF 100mm f/2 lens, it is 73mm from front of lens to the mating surface of the lens (not including the mount itself);
    the body of 5D is 59mm from lens mount front to back of body (omitting the distance that any controls on the back protrude past the back surface of the body)

...so the OM body is 10mm thinner, and 35mm longer FL lens only increases lens length by 7mm

OM-1 plus 135mm = 128mm total depth
5D plus 100mm = 127mm total depth
yet the dSLR looks so much bulkier, and it weighs 1.6x as much

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davesrose
Title Fairy still hasn't visited me!
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Post edited 4 months ago by davesrose. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 20, 2017 15:00 |  #664

Angmo wrote in post #18522544 (external link)
My main concern is when I can shake off this crappy “senior member” title and move on to all the cool ones EVERONE ELSE has...

Congrats, the Title Fairy was pretty quick in finding your quote worthy phrase:-)

*looks like I picked a bad week to give up halucinagens*


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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Bassat
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Dec 20, 2017 15:03 |  #665

Angmo wrote in post #18522544 (external link)
My main concern is when I can shake off this crappy “senior member” title and move on to all the cool ones EVERONE ELSE has...


davesrose wrote in post #18522724 (external link)
Congrats, the Title Fairy was pretty quick in finding your quote worthy phrase:-)


The TF is a poor speller.


Tom,
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Angmo
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Dec 20, 2017 15:03 |  #666

davesrose wrote in post #18522724 (external link)
Congrats, the Title Fairy was pretty quick in finding your quote worthy phrase:-)

:-). Gave me a hearty laugh this holiday...!


Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Billinghams

  
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EverydayGetaway
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Dec 20, 2017 16:08 |  #667

I've always wondered how people changed their titles. Mystery solved :lol:


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DaviSto
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Dec 20, 2017 16:38 |  #668

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18522784 (external link)
I've always wondered how people changed their titles. Mystery solved :lol:

Oh yes .. you can certainly make yourself an easy and attractive target for the Title Fairy's attention. Take care, though. She can be capricious ... occasionally, vicious.

Be careful what you wish for.


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Angmo
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Post edited 2 months ago by Angmo.
     
Jan 31, 2018 11:18 |  #669

Bassat wrote in post #18522727 (external link)
The TF is a poor speller.

It’s spelled correctly. You’re seeing things... :lol:


Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Billinghams

  
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Owain ­ Shaw
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Jan 31, 2018 14:38 |  #670

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18522685 (external link)
Nikon Df is not at all what I'm talking about... that thing was huge and heavy.

I would guess DSLRs end up bigger because of the batteries - a lot like with the Mirrorless debates where DSLRs have better (but bigger) batteries. The batteries in those older 35mm SLRs were the tiny button-style batteries, which compared to a full-frame DSLR battery is night and day. 35mm SLRs got larger towards the end of their evolution as well with things like motor drives, auto-focus systems and what-not presumably needing to be housed.

I have an old manual Yashica that can't be much smaller in width and height than my 5D though and it only uses a button battery - though those dimensions are kind of dictated by the film canister and winding mechanism. The 50mm f/1.4 lens though is smaller than my Canon EF equivalent.

Another thing about the Nikon Df. It really shows how right Fuji got their retro styling by how bad that Df looks.

Finally, regarding the Title Fairy - I never expected my visit when it came, and I certainly wasn't trying to attract one, so it was all in all a pleasant surprise to progress from Senior or Gold Member (I don't recall) to my current title.


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Wilt
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Post edited 2 months ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 31, 2018 14:59 |  #671

Owain Shaw wrote in post #18553511 (external link)
I would guess DSLRs end up bigger because of the batteries - a lot like with the Mirrorless debates where DSLRs have better (but bigger) batteries. The batteries in those older 35mm SLRs were the tiny button-style batteries, which compared to a full-frame DSLR battery is night and day. 35mm SLRs got larger towards the end of their evolution as well with things like motor drives, auto-focus systems and what-not presumably needing to be housed.

But consider the fact that the space occupied by the film cassette on one side, and the film take-up spool area on the other side, together are about the size of a battery for the Canon dSLR and are available to be repurposed in the dSLR, so there is a lot of added bulk in the thickness of the body and the height of the body

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Bassat
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Post edited 2 months ago by Bassat.
     
Jan 31, 2018 16:30 |  #672

My larger crop frame digital (80D) next to my smaller full frame analog (Elan 7NE):

EDIT:
Just for giggles, I weighed them.
80D/18-135 USM/grip two batteries: 3# 13oz.
Elan 7NE/28-105/grip two batteries: 2# 10oz.


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Tom,
Film gear: Elan 7NE / Elan 7 / EOS T2
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Owain ­ Shaw
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Post edited 2 months ago by Owain Shaw.
     
Jan 31, 2018 16:51 |  #673

Wilt wrote in post #18553517 (external link)
But consider the fact that the space occupied by the film cassette on one side, and the film take-up spool area on the other side, together are about the size of a battery for the Canon dSLR and are available to be repurposed in the dSLR, so there is a lot of added bulk in the thickness of the body and the height of the body

Yeah. I was having extra thoughts even when I posted that. Ignoring the modern hand-grip the thickness gains are lesser but still noticeable, even compared to my Yashica which is on the large side for width and height. Not having the film canister or the winding mechanism does leave some room for internal redistribution as well, you're right.

I had forgotten about the screen though - the need to house that and its associated parts might account for some of the extra thickness ... if not the other ballooning in size.


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cinecanada
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Mar 23, 2018 08:36 |  #674

Having used and owned a 5D Mk ii before, I always have a want to go back to a FF from my current T7i.




  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Mar 23, 2018 10:25 |  #675

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18418631 (external link)
I cannot stop motion when a player is dunking a ball by following them and shooting, because their arms and the ball and usually legs are all moving too. I might get their head in focus, the rest of the body is a blur.

.
Getting shots where the ball is sharp (stopped motion) but where the player is blurred by motion, would be really cool ..... especially if it could be done "for real" instead of the motion blur being photoshopped in.

But of course doing so would require that there be a moment in the dunking process where the ball (and the hand/arm controlling the ball) is moving slower than the player's other body parts, which might or might not ever be the case.


.


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