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Thread started 09 Feb 2018 (Friday) 00:40
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What a scam!

 
Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Post edited 3 months ago by Jarvis Creative Studios.
     
Feb 09, 2018 00:40 |  #1

https://scenicpic.com/​west-tex-photo-adventure (external link).

Lol they are asking for $1500 (which doesn't appear to cover room and board) for an instructor to tell you what looks good to photograph. They then take your images to fill up a magazine and your money to print that magazine. Your compensation for building their whole business? A few copies of the magazine to show friends and family.

So they're taking your money, images (that I'm sure you'll sign over the rights for), and they get you to pay for the printing service for the magazine. Hope no one falls for this.

But "This adventure is not just about helping you capture great photos, but to give you the experience of what professional photojournalist go through while on assignment, including the reward of seeing the best of your work in print." so it's all worth it right?


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 09, 2018 01:48 |  #2

Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #18559763 (external link)
https://scenicpic.com/​west-tex-photo-adventure (external link).

Lol they are asking for $1500 (which doesn't appear to cover room and board) for an instructor to tell you what looks good to photograph. They then take your images to fill up a magazine and your money to print that magazine. Your compensation for building their whole business? A few copies of the magazine to show friends and family.

So they're taking your money, images (that I'm sure you'll sign over the rights for), and they get you to pay for the printing service for the magazine. Hope no one falls for this.

But "This adventure is not just about helping you capture great photos, but to give you the experience of what professional photojournalist go through while on assignment, including the reward of seeing the best of your work in print." so it's all worth it right?

Doesn't seem any different than most of the other guided photo tours, except that they add something about a magazine.

The kind of photographers that pay for these guided tours, or workshops, usually don't take the kinds of photos that would have any actual financial value, so "signing the rights over" isn't really even a factor. . Some potential clients probably think that it'd be cool to see their images in a magazine.

The whole magazine aspect of this is really a non-factor, because the tour leaders could just get their own (undoubtedly better) photos quite easily and use them in the mag instead. . But having the magazine angle might give a little tiny extra bit of appeal for those who are interested, and might help them book up a bit quicker.

The price isn't at all out of line with many of the other similar tours that so many other agencies offer. . Many of these tours don't include lodging or meals or transportation from one's residence to the area where the tour is to be held, so no need to cry foul there, as it is an industry norm.

These kinds of guided tours are extremely popular, they are very widespread, and they seem to always fill up to maximum capacity because so many people want to do them. . The market has certainly shown that it WANTS THESE TOURS and is very willing to pay handsomely to attend them. . So why do you seem surprised by this particular tour? . And why do you think it's a scam?

Perhaps you don't have a lot of familiarity with today's burgeoning guided photo tour industry? . Are you familiar with the tours offered by NatureScapes?
Van Os?
Studebaker?
Doug Gardner?
Trogon Tours?
FranzFoto?
Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc?

This tour that you bring to our attention doesn't seem to be much different than any of these other tours, inasmuch as the prices charged and the services that are included (on a value per dollar basis). . Yeah, they include the little magazine connection, but what real difference does that make?


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Feb 09, 2018 02:00 |  #3

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18559783 (external link)
Doesn't seem any different than most of the other guided photo tours, except that they add something about a magazine.

The kind of photographers that pay for these guided tours, or workshops, usually don't take the kinds of photos that would have any actual financial value, so "signing the rights over" isn't really even a factor. . Some potential clients probably think that it'd be cool to see their images in a magazine.

The whole magazine aspect of this is really a non-factor, because the tour leaders could just get their own (undoubtedly better) photos quite easily and use them in the mag instead. . But having the magazine angle might give a little tiny extra bit of appeal for those who are interested, and might help them book up a bit quicker.

The price isn't at all out of line with many of the other similar tours that so many other agencies offer. . Many of these tours don't include lodging or meals or transportation from one's residence to the area where the tour is to be held, so no need to cry foul there, as it is an industry norm.

These kinds of guided tours are extremely popular, they are very widespread, and they seem to always fill up to maximum capacity because so many people want to do them. . The market has certainly shown that it WANTS THESE TOURS and is very willing to pay handsomely to attend them. . So why do you seem surprised by this particular tour? . And why do you think it's a scam?

Perhaps you don't have a lot of familiarity with today's burgeoning guided photo tour industry? . Are you familiar with the tours offered by NatureScapes?
Van Os?
Studebaker?
Doug Gardner?
Trogon Tours?
FranzFoto?
Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc?

This tour that you bring to our attention doesn't seem to be much different than any of these other tours, inasmuch as the prices charged and the services that are included (on a value per dollar basis). . Yeah, they include the little magazine connection, but what real difference does that make?

.

Seems like a booming business. Like a lot of business it's taking advantage of those who don't know any better. Just because there are a lot of "guided photo tours" does not mean they're not scammy. They don't pay lodging, they don't pay park fees, they don't pay food or travel, so what are you paying for? $1500 or more for someone to tell you where to point your camera? That's ridiculous!

I guess there really is a sucker born every minute if something like this could be big business.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 09, 2018 02:23 |  #4

The people that I know that pay to go on these tours are not stupid at all. . They have a very good knowledge of exactly what the tour operators are providing, and they think that the service they get is well worth the money that they pay.

I have met a lot of people (clients) that are on these tours, because I know some of the guys who are professional tour leaders, and bump into them whilst on location on some of my photo trips. . I hang out with them for a while and get to know some of their paying clients.

Some people have quite a bit of money, and are glad to fork over a couple grand to someone who can provide knowledge of an area and who will help them improve their photography with some personalized instruction while on location. . To them it is excellent value. . They don't want to be bothered with doing research on an area and arranging things themselves, so they pay a few grand for a local 'expert' to do it for them. . And to them it is well worth the cost.

Many of these clients are further along in life - like 60s and 70s, and have done very very very well for themselves during their working years. . A few thousand dollars doesn't really set them back at all, and a nice experience in a new area is something special to them.

A good friend of mine that I know from church, his sister went to Japan for a week long photo tour, where they went specifically to photograph some kind of bird, (a type of crane, perhaps? I forget exactly). . She paid $10,000 for the trip and thinks it was the greatest time ever. . But to her, $10,000 doesn't really mean that much because she's a multimillionaire. . That's the primary demographic that a lot of these tour guides appeal to. . These clients like to have somebody arrange things for them and are glad to pay for that service.

Not everybody has to wring the most out of every dollar the way many of us do.

As for the tour leaders, they have rather significant expenditures. . Just getting permits to run tours in some areas is a very difficult and expensive process to go through. . And then there are the super-high liability insurance premiums. . Business licenses. . State taxes. . Federal taxes. . Several friends of mine have suggested that I start a tour business, but when I looked into what it takes to launch and operate such a business, I realized that it is not for me because of all the excessive governmental regulations that need to be adhered to. . What makes it really hard are the liability issues and the permitting issues.


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Perfectly ­ Frank
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Feb 09, 2018 02:51 |  #5

Just because you believe the tour is over priced does not make it a scam.


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BigAl007
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Feb 09, 2018 05:53 |  #6

Like Tom says it really doesn't surprise me that there are lots of people around who are looking for a different experience from their leisure time. What's more even in this day and age they are more than willing to pay for it, especially if it has a little twist to it. I think the magazine thing is a pretty great idea, since it's all of the friends of the client, i.e. other potential clients, who are going to get to see it. What a brilliant advertising ploy. Actually $1500 for a weekends activity seems reasonably decent, I'm guessing the "instructors" are pretty good at ensuring the clients have a good time, and good staff don't come cheap. I see they have seven places left at the moment, and I would guess that the party size won't be that much larger.

In a slightly different field I know a guy who has a business organising traditional English game shooting trips. You know the sort of thing you see on shows like Downton Abbey or 30's Agatha Christie novels, but with arrival at the house by luxury helicopter and all mod cons. A weekend's shoot at a top estate, and that is only two days shooting, runs the client upwards of $250,000. Almost all the clients are from the Dallas Ft Worth area and none of them are mere millionaires. These guys know what they want, and are quite willing to pay for it to happen without a hitch. Almost all are repeat customers, and he has a waiting list for most of the bookings he has available. It's the sort of event where there will be five or six paying American guests, plus the same again in invited guests (well probably still paying, but just not so much as the Americans) from the upper reaches of British "Society" to mingle with. To give an idea a normal days shooting on an estate in the UK will run from about £2000 to £10000 depending on where, and when, you chose to go. That just get you on the list of shooters, you still then have all the other associated costs.

Alan


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Sibil
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Feb 09, 2018 07:32 |  #7

I tried one of these tours; the cheapest I could find for $200. What a waste of time. It was disorganized, everyone was on their own, there was no teaching or helping, and the tour guide was busy getting his own shots. All he did was say we are going here and get your own shot. I broke off from the group after 2 hours and had a much better experience since I had researched the area to death and knew where to go.
I won't try another tour. Doing it solo is much more rewarding. But like mentioned above, I know people who do pay good money for tours like that. The only exception is that I know women who go on these tours for safety reasons. They feel comfortable with a group going to places and times of the day that would not do it alone.




  
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Sideshot
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Feb 09, 2018 09:05 |  #8

This photo trip/tour is not a "scam". A "scam" is a deceptive trick to steal money and not give anything in return.

People put a lot into providing group tours, organizing, advertising, planing, scouting, etc. Many times the guides are sharing intimate knowledge they have of a place that took them years sometimes decades to obtain. This trip provides food, possibly lodging, use of resort grounds, classes, training,

Amateurs, hobbyists out shooting pics and not creating images worth money. They are just another bunch of images in a world of billions of images. It seems like the tour outfit is putting them together in a small publication for the trip participants to keep as a memorabilia, I seriously doubt they are going to mass produce them and make a profit.

Money and prices are relative. What seems like a lot to you might be a small amount to others.
I have taken tours in other countries for $40. a day we drove all over, saw hidden places, got fed and had a great experience, $40. was more then the locals made in a week,

Personally I would not spend $1500. on that. My point is it is not a "scam".




  
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saea501
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Feb 09, 2018 09:09 as a reply to  @ Sideshot's post |  #9

Sideshot is right, it isn't a scam.

It is, however, a rip off.


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Feb 09, 2018 10:35 |  #10

The only scam here is in the misleading thread title. The OP seems to be trying to sell us his excess supply of umbrage.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited 3 months ago by Tom Reichner. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 09, 2018 11:05 |  #11

AZGeorge wrote in post #18560018 (external link)
The only scam here is in the misleading thread title. The OP seems to be trying to sell us his excess supply of umbrage.

It is often easy for one to become annoyed with something that he does not fully understand.

So, in order to aid the OP and others in gaining a fuller understanding of the photo tour industry, I'll post a few links that explain more about what is involved, and what the participants are actually paying for.

https://darwinwiggett.​wordpress.com …o-know-about-photo-tours/ (external link)

http://photosafaris.co​m …7b6qZT8s46nhoCN​KAQAvD_BwE (external link)

https://www.naturescap​es.net/workshops/about (external link)


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Feb 09, 2018 11:07 |  #12

AZGeorge wrote in post #18560018 (external link)
The only scam here is in the misleading thread title. The OP seems to be trying to sell us his excess supply of umbrage.

Or the OP is offering his opinion which I believe he has the right to do.............we on the other hand are allowed to offer dissenting opinions.........it's called discourse.

Respectfully tw


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Just a natural curiosity.
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Feb 09, 2018 12:49 |  #13

So, how much would YOU think is fair for someone to pay you for five days of your professional time while you guide them around your area and help teach them skills?


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited 3 months ago by Tom Reichner.
     
Feb 09, 2018 13:26 |  #14

Luckless wrote in post #18560132 (external link)
So, how much would YOU think is fair for someone to pay you for five days of your professional time while you guide them around your area and help teach them skills?

Great question! I'm poor (quite literally), so I would gladly settle for $225 a day. But that $225 would have to be what's left over after ALL expenses have been covered.

If it's a tour run by a corporate enterprise such as the one the one the OP is discussing, the overhead costs are extensive, as they involve office space, utilities, state and federal licensure and permitting, administrative employees, accountants and lawyers and insurance, a vehicle fleet, etc, etc, etc. . So the tour company would have to charge plenty of money to cover all of those expenses, and still have a clear $225 left to pay me for for each day that I spent afield, if I were a tour leader for such a corporation. . And of course I would need to be paid $225 for each day that I spent scouting the location ahead of time (many tour leaders do this for at least three days prior to the tour).

But honestly, most of the tour leaders are very accomplished professionals who earn a good living, whereas I'm just a nobody. . I would never expect such individuals to do this work for a mere $225 / day like I would. . They would probably not do it for any less than $600 per day, and I know of one guy who gets $1000 a day from one client to give him private one-on-one tours on a regular basis.


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Feb 09, 2018 13:26 |  #15

I can tell that there are not a lot of people who agree with me here, and I will admit calling it a straight up scam was a little heavy handed. I should have known with this forum being primarily wildlife photographers this post would not get much love.

I guess I'm just not a fan of something where I think people are being played out of their money. If, like you say Tom, that most people who sign up for these things know exactly what they're getting into, and they are just blowing extra cash because they don't want to take a few hours to plan out a trip, then that's perfectly fine. However, I have to believe that many people going into these types of "adventures" have to think that they're going to gain invaluable photography skills that they didn't have before. If they do then awesome for them, but by the description of the specific tour I posted, it seems it's more like "we'll take you to a few locations, do your best, and turn in your work at the end".

I'm sure like you say, the instructors are more than capable of going by themselves and getting the shots for magazines, etc. And I'm sure they are. But it seems they are happily going on other people's cash. Get 7-10 people to give you $1500 each, and you have a nice 10-15 grand to go on a vacation and get some amazing photos that you can publish. At least in the case of the tour that I posted, as it seems to be a one man operation.

Seems like a pretty sweet deal for the instructor, not so much for the students (unless they know exactly what they are getting into).


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What a scam!
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