Rant about NBA photography policy.

[nureality]

Well it sucks.

Every other major sports league in the USA is quite friendly to photogs and will allow you to bring in just about anything (within reason, fast superteles aren't allowed). But the NBA has to be special, so they don't allow nearly anything.

I went to the Suns vs. Heat game last night, and ended up ONLY being able to take my 7D + 7mm f/3.5 Fisheye to shoot with. Because my 17-55 f/2.8 IS was "too big", let alone the 70-200 f/4L IS. "Too Big"? I know, very scientific gauging of a lens. But the dummies they have working for them are issued a book with pictures of allowable gear, and the picture they get is a Nikon D40 with a 18-55 lens on it, which is "smaller" than my 17-55 f/2.8 IS.

I used to shoot NHL when I went to Panthers games, and would run into an overzealous guard from time to time, but simply asserting that you know the rules and limitations (and I did) and showing your stuff is acceptable would always get me thru. But the NBA (well the Heat in particular at least, but the guard ended up claiming the rules come down from the NBA) says the size of the lens has to be "small" not even thinking enough to limit it in length (which one of the guards thought was a limit of 4", but it isn't even that) and essentially block out everyone at the guard's discretion... this is just weak.

I spent a good 15 minutes explaining to the guy my 17-55 had the same reach as the 18-55 pictured and that 55mm isn't really gonna be enough reach anyways. But someone could bring in a superzoom with a 400-500mm zoom on it and shoot the nose hairs of Steve Nash.

The guard said that the NBA doesn't want fans to be able to take a photo and sell it on the internet. So I explained to him that the fan with the little superzoom I mentioned could get a shot some of the pro's in the room might not, how are you gonna stop him. I'm just trying to bring in a normal lens.

But, I didn't get thru to them. I ended up shooting some fun shots with the fisheye.

I lost my valid argument to a stupid league.
The Heat lost the game.

[/rant]

[jamesb84]

Originally Posted by nureality

The guard said that the NBA doesn't want fans to be able to take a photo and sell it on the internet.

And there you have it.

To be honest, they should be banning everyone with a camera. However, with phone cameras being much better and with small P&S cameras being much smaller...unless you ban everyone with a phone and strip search the others for a P&S it's going to be difficult to police. So they will git rid of the problem as much as possible...by going for dSLR users.

I cant say i've ever bothered to take a camera along to a game (other than my phone) if i've been a paying customer.

Much better to sit back and enjoy the game.

[nureality]

I usually take a camera to a game to get some (ok usually a LOT) of momento shots. And I don't see the point investing in a quality P&S, especially after investing what I have in my SLRs.

That said, I often will grab tickets for the photo opportunities that I can capture with them. Like the tickets I had for the WS Game 1, or the 30yard Line, 2nd row seat I have for the Giants @ Minnesota game on Jan 3.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned both games are MUCH more important than some early season out-of-division/out-of-conference NBA game. Yet the other two leagues welcome the shooters. And NBA is a bunch of whiny bitches. Glad I didn't pay for the seat, but I was in the 4th row on the floor. I could have gotten some great shots of Steve Nash, Amari Stoudemayer, Grant Hill, D'Wade, etc... really shameful for $350 seats to go to waste like that in my eyes. NBA should know better.

[jamesb84]

Originally Posted by nureality

I usually take a camera to a game to get some (ok usually a LOT) of momento shots. And I don't see the point investing in a quality P&S, especially after investing what I have in my SLRs.

That said, I often will grab tickets for the photo opportunities that I can capture with them. Like the tickets I had for the WS Game 1, or the 30yard Line, 2nd row seat I have for the Giants @ Minnesota game on Jan 3.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned both games are MUCH more important than some early season out-of-division/out-of-conference NBA game. Yet the other two leagues welcome the shooters. And NBA is a bunch of whiny bitches. Glad I didn't pay for the seat, but I was in the 4th row on the floor. I could have gotten some great shots of Steve Nash, Amari Stoudemayer, Grant Hill, D'Wade, etc... really shameful for $350 seats to go to waste like that in my eyes. NBA should know better.

The argument could be altered though...if you perhaps like shouting profane abuse at players and throwing spitwads at them, would you still say "shameful for those seats to go to waste". That would be indulging in a passion of yours which the arena/league/individuals around you would disapprove of...

See how photography could be seen in the same way? It may be something you like, but there are others who perhaps dont feel the same way.

[DC Fan]

Originally Posted by nureality

But the NBA has to be special, so they don't allow nearly anything.

Depends on the location.



NBA game from early October. XTi and 70-300mm IS USM lens. Opened the equipment bag, security looked, no problem. Took the camera and lens to the upstairs seat. Took pictures and no one cared.

Likely, you encountered an arena policy as much as a NBA policy. Or, carrying the equipment in an old blue cooler bag instead of a large camera bag made a difference.

From the "pictures of allowable gear, and the picture they get is a Nikon D40 with a 18-55" note, the trick might be to use a smaller lens with a long reach, such as a Tamron 18-200mm lens, which is around the same size as a 18-55mm.




Same arena, same lighting, same XTi, closer location, from a Tamron 18-200mm. Not perfect, but effective.

Of course, another alternative is to find a place where no one cares about cameras. Often, smaller events mean easier attitudes. Small college and high school games may be more inviting, and offer better courtside locations that can be reached with the purchase of an inexpensive ticket and not a courtside pass.

[FlyingPhotog]

FWIW, you'll never get into an Arizona Diamondbacks game with an SLR either...

It's not just the NBA. It's every league * arena/stadium policies * the person you encounter at the door = The mood of the day.

BTW, Go Suns!

[johnj2803]

American airlines arena has this policy and I think not all locations are strict. You are lucky to have been able to bring an slr. I had my XS with a 50mm 1.8 and they still wanted me to check in my bag. Considering the size of your cam I think you are even lucky to have your cam with you during the game.

[MJPhotos24]

It depends on the stadium/arena and your attack on the NBA as a league makes you just sound like a whiner. You might as well get used to photo policy restrictions because I do believe with technology getting better and more and more people trying to sell unlicensed photos from games they will get stricter. They're trying to protect their rights since it's their event and their rules, you're paying for the privilege to watch their game, so in short - nothing you can do, get over it.

[Todd Lambert]

When you fail, try try again.

Often leaving that gate, and trying another gate, will get you in. You gave up too easy, persistence is the key here.

[airfrogusmc]

Originally Posted by nureality

Well it sucks.

Every other major sports league in the USA is quite friendly to photogs and will allow you to bring in just about anything (within reason, fast superteles aren't allowed). But the NBA has to be special, so they don't allow nearly anything.

I went to the Suns vs. Heat game last night, and ended up ONLY being able to take my 7D + 7mm f/3.5 Fisheye to shoot with. Because my 17-55 f/2.8 IS was "too big", let alone the 70-200 f/4L IS. "Too Big"? I know, very scientific gauging of a lens. But the dummies they have working for them are issued a book with pictures of allowable gear, and the picture they get is a Nikon D40 with a 18-55 lens on it, which is "smaller" than my 17-55 f/2.8 IS.

I used to shoot NHL when I went to Panthers games, and would run into an overzealous guard from time to time, but simply asserting that you know the rules and limitations (and I did) and showing your stuff is acceptable would always get me thru. But the NBA (well the Heat in particular at least, but the guard ended up claiming the rules come down from the NBA) says the size of the lens has to be "small" not even thinking enough to limit it in length (which one of the guards thought was a limit of 4", but it isn't even that) and essentially block out everyone at the guard's discretion... this is just weak.

I spent a good 15 minutes explaining to the guy my 17-55 had the same reach as the 18-55 pictured and that 55mm isn't really gonna be enough reach anyways. But someone could bring in a superzoom with a 400-500mm zoom on it and shoot the nose hairs of Steve Nash.

The guard said that the NBA doesn't want fans to be able to take a photo and sell it on the internet. So I explained to him that the fan with the little superzoom I mentioned could get a shot some of the pro's in the room might not, how are you gonna stop him. I'm just trying to bring in a normal lens.

But, I didn't get thru to them. I ended up shooting some fun shots with the fisheye.

I lost my valid argument to a stupid league.
The Heat lost the game.

[/rant]

The NFL is starting to crack down. No lenses longer than 6" and only one body if your not a pro with pass which are almost impossible to get. Don't be surprised if you start seeing more and more of this and I got a strange feeling this is coming from the news groups and the leagues themselves that hire the pros to shoot the games.

[Croasdail]

I think arena/teams will eventually have to give up on this. The cameras on phones keep on getting better, and p/s keep marching on as well. There is not way they are going to ban both. And I don't get the selling shots from a p/s from the stands - who buys these? You can go to AP and buy real images, and most papers sell their images as well. Why would anyone by a #*)p shot from the stands over the internet? Just goofy. If fans are getting better shots than the pros.... shame on the pros.

[airfrogusmc]

Originally Posted by Croasdail

I think arena/teams will eventually have to give up on this. The cameras on phones keep on getting better, and p/s keep marching on as well. There is not way they are going to ban both. And I don't get the selling shots from a p/s from the stands - who buys these? You can go to AP and buy real images, and most papers sell their images as well. Why would anyone by a #*)p shot from the stands over the internet? Just goofy. If fans are getting better shots than the pros.... shame on the pros.

Don't bet on it. Like it or not its gonna keep getting tighter.

[FlyingPhotog]

Originally Posted by Croasdail

I think arena/teams will eventually have to give up on this. The cameras on phones keep on getting better, and p/s keep marching on as well. There is not way they are going to ban both. And I don't get the selling shots from a p/s from the stands - who buys these? You can go to AP and buy real images, and most papers sell their images as well. Why would anyone by a #*)p shot from the stands over the internet? Just goofy. If fans are getting better shots than the pros.... shame on the pros.

A handful of pros can't compete with an arena full of cameras or even just the lower bowl of most facilities.

But, more isn't necessarilly better. The leagues want to uphold the quality of images being released as well as hold up their end of the CBA which grants the various players associations control over the use of players likenesses and the revenue (or potential revenue) derived from same.

As was said above. Their ball .. Their Rules

[Croasdail]

So you guys think they are going to start asking people to surrender their phones at the door too?

And maybe I am biased, but I haven't seen many shots from stands worth the electrons they are stored on. There are a few, but good enough for someone to sell? Really. I guess they must be selling, but that just proves some people will buy anything.

[Todd Lambert]

I wouldn't be surprised if they do, actually. The PGA does (obviously a different reason) but it shows that it can be done.

If you're an event owner/producer, wouldn't you rather have FULL control over your patrons? They can come in with nothing but paper and plastic, that's it. I know I would. It makes things easier all the way around for them. It sucks for the patron, but it's not like it's affected the draw at PGA events, everyone just complies.