Burned by another photographer- what now?

[proimages]

Hello all new to this forum!!
Here's one lesson I hope to pass on and get advice..

I was hired by a sports photography company to shoot a number of sporting events (4)
he tried to have me sign a employment type contract ( without the employment) I refused as one line said if I canceled a shoot I would be charged three times more than I was being paid. There was a lot more to it..Wish I walked!!!!!!!!!!

I was asked to shoot as an independent and first shoot went fine..he said my work was fabulous..I have a 50d and 70 -200 is so no issues on quality..averaged 2k shots per event.

He had a song and dance about getting photos online fast, to maximize sales and revenue..these were for marathons and bike races..so I handed over pics and waited for payment..then was late on first payment promised two weeks. Didn't stress him for money or even push. Lot of promises about building a company and team.

I was promised hourly and commission figured no issue the photographer involved was an accredited news cameraman for KTLA in Los Angeles.. I'm getting $25 an hour Joke wage, no travel, no post..with all the promises around the sales commissions.
I will admit I'm quite new to these sorts of arrangements.

In the end, I was only paid for one shoot ($100) stiffed for 3 more and delivered over 4000 pics..I was promised to be paid, then three months later told to sue..at the last event over 10 photographers were on that shoot.

Now is where it gets tricky, the company selling the photos (backprint) is in Texas and they wont provide info on sales, address for this scum bag and still selling my pictures
legal terms involved fraud, conversion, unjust enrichment..not to mention the loss of my intellectual property rights..I pulled a millennium act ( six months later) and they took down some of the pictures but no records for sales and the still promote the smuck on there front page.

The photography company goes by three different DBA's and is not even a real business in los angeles. I tried to file a small claims action today and find out I cant even go after the Texas company..The only real business..grrrrrr Suing the scum bag seem mute as he hides under a rock and I'll never collect..even though I'm tempted just to make a point. So now I have to walk away..promoters are promoting events and this company, multi million dollar company in Texas profits from my expense, and I'm run over in the worst economy ever..WTF!!

ps..If I paid more money before delivering the pics, and filed a real US copyright I could go after damages in the millions..because I only own them without filing I cannot retrieve damages beyond whats owed..no lawyer will touch it..

Any ideas on where I go now?
Should I spread the names across the planet? blog and include full info?
How do you protect yourself in this kind of situation?

when handing over pictures to another company to sell are you still suppose to file a US copyright?

The Los Angeles District attorney stated if he gets one more call he will go after the guy for criminal fraud..should I post on craigslist and see if others photographers were caught up in this scam?

Thanks for any advice!!
cheers
Darrin Nupuf
proimages.com

[GtrPlyr]

[proimages]

THX leaning that way for sure!! : )

[proimages]

agreement was $25 and 20% commission..10% in writing..
I've won small claims before never collected a penny..
add another couple days stressing. When I could be out shooting..
I'm leaning towards baseball bat!!

think I can plead insanity : )

[sapearl]

Originally Posted by proimages

Hello all new to this forum!!
Here's one lesson I hope to pass on and get advice..

I was hired by a sports photography company to shoot a number of sporting events (4)
he tried to have me sign a employment type contract ( without the employment) I refused as one line said if I canceled a shoot I would be charged three times more than I was being paid. There was a lot more to it..Wish I walked!!!!!!!!!!......Any ideas on where I go now?
Should I spread the names across the planet? blog and include full info?
How do you protect yourself in this kind of situation?

when handing over pictures to another company to sell are you still suppose to file a US copyright?

The Los Angeles District attorney stated if he gets one more call he will go after the guy for criminal fraud..should I post on craigslist and see if others photographers were caught up in this scam?

Thanks for any advice!!
cheers
Darrin Nupuf
proimages.com

Hello Darrin and welcome to POTN. Sorry to hear about your bad experience as our first impression of getting to know you here. I do feel you were somewhat wronged but the story is a little convoluted.

I agree it sounded like a bad deal from the start and that the other party never intended to deliver fair payment.... and I could understand your reluctance to sign such an undesirable agreement - but somebody could argue the point that the lack of signature meant you never entered into any sort of formal working agreement. And then you're into a sticky he said/he said situation.

I would certainly not smear their name around the web unless you want career suicide. "Posts" are forever, HR and personnel hiring managers often check the web first, and you've already put your name out there. Regardless of how big a scumbag this fellow might be, who would want to hire somebody who broadcasts his displeasure across the web? You are much better off pursuing legal recourse.

[proimages]

Thanks for the valid info, why I joined!! Sorry to start on a bad note!!
I have been a freelance designer for many years, crossing over to photo in hopes of a 'click' I'm done career..3D animation involves a lot of time and drama..doing petty well with stock..just got caught up in this nightmare situation. Needed to vent and get some advice from pro's!! As you can see my work name and rep is on the table!!

Wanted to hear from others in the business..We did have a number of email correspondences and he was asking me to shoot for him, two of the three shoots involved 'emergencies' wonder why..
If he was any less known I would have never gotten involved..that's the part that really gets me the guy is practically famous. I was working cheap to help get the business started, never again!!

I'm sure karma and hopefully district attorney will catch up with him.
As for court..requires one half day to file, one day to appear, 50 cash and no ability to collect as
the guy is hiding info, addresses, and behind out of state company..that is protecting him for sure.
I find this situation quite heinous..
thanks for the advice!! well taken!!
cheers
Darrin

[bl4scott]

That sucks! Sounds like you had a lot of time and talent invested. Thanks for posting your experience, unfortunately in life, we all have these type of stories, however, I bet it doesn't EVER happen to you again! We get smarter and better from these bumps in the road.

[TopHatMoments]

Never sign there contract, have them sign your or walk away.
There's will always bite in the end.

[Mike R]

Have you thought about going to the TV station and letting his managers know about his unethical/illegal ways. You may not get anywhere but they may take action against him, maybe fire him. You don't know if you're the only one that he has done this to.

[Scatterbrained]

Sorry to hear about your situation. That really sucks big hairy blue donkey oysters. It's interesting though in that I almost answered an ad for a job with the same description. I thought it was strange that they were looking for "experienced" shooters for marathons and such yet were very specific to state that you would need to own a 70-200 f/2.8 lens of some kind. They specifically mentioned that they were looking for people to shoot marathons and such. I wonder if they were the same outfit?

[S.Horton]

Welcome to POTN.

Find out where he's shooting, just show up, ask for your money. Quietly, firmly, and inside of 2 feet.

[L.J.G.]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Not a great way to have to introduce yourself, it would have been nicer for you to have been able to do so under better circumstances.

You say the L.A. D.A. has mentioned one more call and he will file charges? Well, the chances of you getting much cash out of him are probably somewhere between slim and none, so if it was me I'd do what Sam above has said, track him down like the dog he is, but rather than confront him straight up, maybe see who he is currently dealing with as a photographer and speak to them on the side to see if they are having issues as well.

If they are, get them to ring the D.A. and bingo, there is the call that starts the ball rolling to get him charged. Then maybe file a civil action to recoup your money. If you get some great, if not at least you will have the satisfaction of seeing him get charged, tried and hopefully sent to the big house for a vacation where somebody will use him as their bitch.

Good luck with it and learn from the experience that getting angry only raises your blood pressure, getting retribution gives lasting satisfaction

[proimages]

Thanks for the notes!! its appreciated..I've been tempted to go to some of the events with a picket sign and stand in front of him so he cant shoot..he's already said sue me..maybe he will pay me to go away!! two events this weekend and two the next..
each is $30-$40 drive plus 3-4 hours ea..4-5am with no idea which he'll be at..if any.

Honestly I see that F good chance I go to jail!! always wondered why he seemed nervous..looking over the site seems, he's also taken a lot of my ideas..flags so people know they are coming up on a photog and on site printing..guess when you thieve there's money to be made!!

sad state of affairs these days..

I've given up on legal and the stress levels make me want to just walk away, and take it as a lesson learned.

scatterbrained..that sounds like him, wanting a test shoot? LA area? first name starts with an S for (scum) last with a L (loser)..he's pretty big time in aerial photography only reason I gave him a chance, I did do my research..

spending time over lost time is an issue for me..so little time!! Lost a lot of sleep over this!! I have plenty of my own stuff going on..

I filled out a number of forms today
is3.gov for cyber fraud for one..if anyone else involved finds this info..small world!!
contact Jon Baragan - 213-533-4654 LAPD - computer crime division

Thank you all for the support and info!! Hope I help someone to not waist time and effort!! Why I started this!!

cheers
Darrin

[proimages]

Promise I'll start and participate in good fun topics!!
cheers
Darrin

[ImCBParker]

Sorry for the situation. That is unfortunate as others have said. Never work without a contract and never give proofs without pay, etc, etc, but you do not need us pointing out the obvious at this point.

Did you actually talk to a DA or the DA office? The response and action you get will vary greatly depending on your answer. A city DA clerk will always thank you for bringing a matter to their attention and they will record it and if something else comes up, they will investigate. They get thousands of calls, claim forms, and visitors a day. If it appears to be a major incident, usually felonious in nature, the clerk forwards to an investigator, who will in-turn may, or may not, investigate the matter. From there it goes to a DA attorney (not the DA), who may, or may not try the matter. For major cases, the DA might intervene. I know many attorneys and been around law long enough that without a contract this is he said she said, and at best a civil matter. Not sure any DA office will even get to the investigation stage for an issue like this, perhaps in a very small town with no activity what-so-ever. Hate to break it to you, but they are not going this case in with other felonious crimes aside to deal with a civil matter. In LA, it would be the Fraud and Corruption division, and they are already overwhelmed with pressing cases. Unless one of your shots was actually used in a major marketing campaign, even if you had registerred, you would never receive millions. You cannot can try to sue for that much, but no judge would award you more than you lost in revenues, court costs, plus reasonable amount for damages. Thousands, likely. Millions? Not so likely. That is how the legal system works.

Sounds like he is acting as a broker between the end photo site and photographers, so the photo sites liability is pretty much non-existant, short of removing images once they are proved to not belong to the broker in this case. Even that is a stretch without a contract.

I would continue to pursue it with the individual responsible for brokering this arrangement. If you have not already, send an invoice for services rendered. If you can do this from your business, that would be best, as you may have a case for collections later. That is going to be your best bet. As you stated, you cannot go after him in small claims, so very sadly, this may end up being nothing more than a harsh lesson, which is awful, and I am truly sorry you had to experience and best of luck.