Pro 1 + Canon 500D Macro Lens

[Don Ellis]

I'm here to recommend the Canon 500D Macro Lens.

When I owned the G2, I used a collection of three macro filters to shoot +5, +10, +15. +20 or +25. I was used to a lot of magnification and a lot of choice. So when I purchased a Pro 1, I was looking for some macro ability.
As incredible as the Pro 1’s Super Macro feature is, I don’t like shooting JPG and I don’t like shooting less than full frame. So I bought a step-down ring and tried a 49mm macro lens just to see if it worked before investing in a 58mm +10. I didn’t like the results.

In the back of my mind, I remembered reading that the Canon 500D would work but I ignored that because I was used to much larger diopters. I thought the 500D was +4, but when I started reading, I discovered it was +2. For someone with the capability to go to +25, the +2 sounded like a joke.

Anyway, more research and I couldn’t find anyone who didn’t like the 500D — although most of the reviews I found were from DSLR users. Well, I thought, they can’t all be wrong, but a personal recommendation is always appreciated -- so I asked Marie how she liked hers and she kindly sent me some samples and her experiences.

Yesterday I bought one — and if you’re a Pro 1 owner interested in macros, you should, too. The results are magic.

Here’s what you need to know, that I found out mostly from Marie and a little from reading:

1. Don’t worry about +2 diopters — the results are amazing.

2. The 58mm 500D fits onto the supplied 58mm filter adapter that comes with the Pro 1. Alternatively, you can buy extra filter adapters and mount the 500D permanently onto one of them (the best solution).

3. When you attach the macro lens, you need to go into the camera’s Menu and find Converter and select the "500D" filter. This will automatically extend your lens out to the maximum zoom. Tip 1: A quick way to do all that is to hit the Menu button, press your Up omniselector button 6 times, then the Right omniselector 2 times, then hit Menu again -- you’re looking for “500D”. Tip 2: The fastest way to do all that is to set your camera to Av mode and the Converter to 500D and then save these settings to C1 or C2. (Thanks again, Marie -- it works like a charm.)

4. The “500” in “500D” stands for the maximum possible focusing distance in millimetres when the camera is set to infinity, i.e. 500mm or about 20 inches. I found this the most amazing part of macro shooting with the Pro -- you hold the camera far away from what you’re shooting. With the G2, I was nearly squashing the bugs I was photographing, and scaring them in the process. Wasps were another challenge entirely. Now I can stand half a meter away.

5. Last suggestion that I’ve not yet tried… the instructions that come with the 500D recommend setting Manual Focus to the shortest distance and moving the camera in and out to achieve focus. I’ve used this technique with the G2 and filters, so I’m sure it will work; however, I haven’t had a problem with Auto Focus yet, so I haven’t bothered. Also, they recommend f/5.6 - 8.0 to mitigate the problem of shallow depth of field. And a tripod is often a help, depending on shutter speed.

I’ve only taken half a dozen shots with this lens but I did take one of a stamp for you to see. I wasn’t look for a great macro shot so much as something that was familiar to most people. Stamps tend to be similar sizes around the world.

This one is 25 x 30mm, or 1 x 1.25 inches, taken at a distance of about 500mm (20 inches). This is a 100% crop; I didn’t include the full frame because it’s a waste of space in this case. It’s 1223x1399 pixels and 360KB (just to warn you). Full frame RAW photos at 3264 x 2448 pixels, so you can get a lot more in frame than just a stamp.

Stamp

And now I must go bug some bugs…but I'll leave with a big thanks to Marie for helping me decide.

Don

[Don Ellis]

I am some kind of poor teacher... thanks to Marie, however, I can fix that. In the first post in this thread (since corrected), I said to set the Converter in the Menu to LC-TC58A... WRONG!

I didn't even see the "500D" option in the same Converter menu. Yes, my eyes are getting old and like most of us I don't read directions nearly well enough... if at all.

So set Converter to 500D -- even though the stamp example was taken with the LC-TC58A setting. Don't ask me why it worked... I'm just a guy with a new camera.

Sorry for any confusion. But that's what these forums are for -- to keep Don on track (I mean "sharing information"). Thanks once again, Marie. And thanks for the email asking about it... next time you can simply flog me in public.

Also thanks for the C1 setting tip... what a pleasure and just in time to take it to England.

Cheers,

Don

[Don Ellis]

Speaking of recommended products, here's a hot sauce for a hot lady. Thanks to Marie, this shot was taken with the correct "500D" setting.



If you click on the photo above, you'll see a 1.3MB image that 100% crop and nearly full-size. Even looking at the actual label with a magnifying glass, I cannot see the cross-check detail of the background or the little "LEA &PERRINS" in the decorative band at the top of the label that you'll see in the large file. The 500D really does bring new worlds into view.

This sauce is so much better than the sharp, vinegary Tabasco that Tobasco should be taken off the market. If you're a Tabasco-lover, don't just mindlessly jump on this comment -- go try Lea & Perrins first.

Cheers,

Don

[marie]

Don, thank you very much for all the information you give here about the Pro 1 and the 500D lens

I find so much of what you have said really helpful.
I really appreciate it as you made it all very understandable ,
things I was not too sure about. you have put them down terrific
really appreciate you going to all this trouble.

that last picture you posted is just great
I see the small print
I don't know the taste but never liked vinegar so have an idea what you mean

you will laugh >
when I saw your photo example I grabbed this ( almost used up) small bottle off the shelf here
the sun is just rising and it's still a little dull out there in the garden as there is heavy greenery all around and the light is not just right for photo's' especially macro's

however , with the 500D on the Pro 1, placed the small bottle on the wooded table, took the shot at a distance of about 2 and a half to 3 feet away (approx)
so as this small bottle can say hello to yours

seems they swapped themselves across the world
this Hong Kong, yours ....UK



many thanks again for the wonderful advice and that you went to the trouble of putting all down here for the benefit of all who are interested
your help in all is much appreciated

thanks





holding the bottle up against the screen picture of this bottle (just the bottle, not the complete picture here ) it is approx. four times smaller then this picture is
I measured the lazy way

[Don Ellis]

Even more magnification...

The instructions for the 500D say that it's not intended for use with any other macro filters or lenses – which is not only an invitation to try, but practically an order. (This warning also begs the question, why is the 500D front-threaded? Maybe for a polarizer.)

So I just screwed on a 58-49mm step-down ring and a 49mm Hoya +10 Macro Lens, which I thought I no longer had any use for. Did you notice the little guy in the far-upper-right corner of the Lea & Perrins label above? Well, here he is again, full-frame, resized to 640 pixels...




Click on this photo and a 940MB full-frame, no-crop image will load in a separate window. When it does, it will show you everything I did wrong – I didn't do any proper lighting (window was behind it, actually) and the bottle is a fairly small diameter, which means that even at f/8.0, the sides fade off quickly because it's a cylinder. (Note: I just shot a flat US$10 bill and notice that it's sharpest in the center, but this could be because I'm using a 49mm macro lens on a 58mm adapter. I may purchase the 58mm B+W +10 and see if I get edge-to-edge sharpness. But it won't be for a month or so.) Surprisingly, there was no vignetting with the 49mm, presumably because of the full zoom.

I also have another +10 and a +5, so one of these days I'll experiment some more. As it is, I'm supposed to be packing for vacation, hence the sloppy lab work on this photo. But what it does tell you is that it's not only possible but you can expect decent results.

One more thing, I didn't check the distance, but you're back to close work with this combination -- perhaps an inch or two away (2.5-5cm).

Cheers,

Don

[marie]

wow
that's just terrific Don
great news for when needed
nothing like going against the grain,
especially if it works


regards the front threads on the 500D
I saw those when I got it (before I got the converter. I was using the 'ring' then)
I had added my polarizer to the 500D
the results were not too good
but that could have been for a lot of other reasons which I was not aware of at the time, until I tested more

I got the conversion lens adapter LA-DC58C
it is pretty expensive .
much more expensive then the adapter for the wide angle which I had got for the G2
but of heavier quality and has a tripod fixture (on the adapter itself)
save the lot toppling over if having to use a tripod

~
want to show something regarding those front threads on the 500D

here is a sample





using the wide angle lens (which I already had for the G2 )
the conversion lens adaptor LA-DC58C
and the 500D close up lens, all together

(just in case we ever want or need this...
shrug shoulders

mine)



as is to be expected the print is spread wider then if using just the 500D lens

this is showing a small piece of the fine print from the back of the small Pro 1 camera user guide
I photographed that especially as we all have the (6"x4") book
the print shown is from the top left on the back of it
Canon state
'we do not recommend combining more then one close up lens together for this results in poor image quality or shading'
there is some shading here in the picture
it's not two close up lens but a combination

not sure it is of much use as wide angle , except for maybe a wide special notice
which I had tested, to see would they work 'together'
tried it on a notice on a wall in a hospital waiting room :

I noticed a big difference between the 500D on it's own and then adding the wide angle lens
one might say 'as to be expected '
but it was a first try out
and it was not mentioned anywhere, as regards the wide angle
just trying it out
** (this information is edited down below)

the difference was getting more print in and more clearly.
even though the outer 'edges' are lost a little,
not too bad though.
I had it handheld 1/8 so it will look little shaken also I imagine ,
especially with the conversion lens adaptor attached, the camera is a lot heavier then usual





the whole notice is in , from a few feet away
I guess it's up to us, whatever we decide to photograph at a certain time which may make the picture more interesting. or what we need at the time
using whatever lens.
trial and error
nice to know it can be done


I was delayed in answering after seeing your terrific example again here Don
I had to go out since
and you have to pack

thanks again for all the information
it's appreciated
wonderful
you'll both have a great holiday



later edit
I am not sure I used the 500D together with the wide angle for the wider notice in the hospital
(it was the middle of the night )
I will have to check more by doing more tests.
I know the menu is set to converter TC-DC58A when using the wide angle for a longer shot
for the close print shot shown first, on the menu it was set to ' converter 500D'
I'll have to test more
was testing mostly to see if the wide angle works with that adapter ( if it takes a decent shot) as it's' longer' then the other adapter which is normally used for the G2 ( because of the set up of the pro1)
sorry if there is any misunderstanding about it all.


I did use both the 500D and the wide angle for the close up print of the 'user guide book 'above ,
that's for sure

[Don Ellis]

I did a comparison test today of the 500D Macro Lens with 58mm filter adapter (that comes with the Pro 1) versus the rather expensive LA-DC58C adapter that can be purchased separately.

I took the Lea & Perrins shot (first one in this thread) with the 500D screwed onto the supplied 58mm adapter. This was before I read in the manual that this was a no-no. Frankly, I was pretty satisfied with the result.

But having purchased the LA-DC58C and done a tripod-mounted test comparison of my mobile phone screen with its tiny pixels, I'll go on record as saying that this adapter does a slightly better job. It is especially noticeable when you blow the image up four times normal size.

I'll spare you the images unless you're desperate for them.

Verdict -- if you're short of cash, you'll find the supplied adapter just fine. If you're fanatical about detail, you'll want the LA-DC58C.

Cheers,

Don

[rpolitsr]

Don
I think there is a mechanical reason for using the expensive LA_DC58C that may be important.
When the LA_DC58C is used, the extra weight of the 500D goes to the sturdy fixed part of the lens, when you use the supplied filter adapter, the extra weight goes to the moving part of the zoom overloading the tiny motor inside the lens.
I didn’t find this warning in the manual, but I think it is real.

[Don Ellis]

Originally Posted by rpolitsr

Don
I think there is a mechanical reason for using the expensive LA_DC58C that may be important.
When the LA_DC58C is used, the extra weight of the 500D goes to the sturdy fixed part of the lens, when you use the supplied filter adapter, the extra weight goes to the moving part of the zoom overloading the tiny motor inside the lens.
I didn’t find this warning in the manual, but I think it is real.

That's possible, and maybe even part of it, but I can easily envision a UV filter and polarizer stacked on a single supplied adapter and they would be approximately the same weight.

I have a feeling that the LA-DC58C more precisely positions the 500D -- although it's a very, very small degree based on my test. Still, coming from G1s and G2 that I always use a Lensmate adapter on, I certainly don't mind having a fully extended 200mm zoom protected by a metal sleeve.

By the way, as far as stacking filters -- like the UV and polarizer -- I purchased several extra supplied adapters and have a UV screwed on one and a polarizer screwed on another. That's one more benefit of the Pro 1 -- quick attachment of the ring adapter so you're not tempted to screw one on top of the other as I occasionally did with the G2.

Nice to hear from you.

Don

[marie]

Originally Posted by Don Ellis

I did a comparison test today of the 500D Macro Lens with 58mm filter adapter (that comes with the Pro 1) versus the rather expensive LA-DC58C adapter that can be purchased separately.

I took the Lea & Perrins shot (first one in this thread) with the 500D screwed onto the supplied 58mm adapter. This was before I read in the manual that this was a no-no. Frankly, I was pretty satisfied with the result.
But having purchased the LA-DC58C and done a tripod-mounted test comparison of my mobile phone screen with its tiny pixels, I'll go on record as saying that this adapter does a slightly better job. It is especially noticeable when you blow the image up four times normal size.


I'll spare you the images unless you're desperate for them.

many thanks Don
please post the photos.
they will be most welcome
I haven't had a lot of opportunity to use the 500D with that adaptor yet (I have both for some time) especially with the tripod
so am looking forward to seeing your shots

as you say , already the other Lee & Parrins shot with the ring adaptor is terrific
so the others must be super duper

[Don Ellis]

By popular request (Marie), I'm documenting my comments about resolution and detail with a couple of photos in four versions. In all cases, the first photo is with the recommended LA-DC58C adapter and 500D Macro Lens. The second photo is with the 500D mounted on the 58mm adapter that comes in the Pro 1 box.

Although both shots were taken at the same time on the same tripod, there is a slight misalignment due either to the adapter behaviour or my slight movement of the camera or tripod while changing the setup. It is minimal, however, and doesn't affect the results or conclusions

Here are the complete images reduced in size to 1024. I know that doesn't fulfill the purists' desire to see the entire image, but this is what you get. Outtake photos below these two should satisfy anyone looking for detail.

LA-DC58C adapter and 500D Macro Lens... actual image resized to 1024...



Supplied 58mm adapter and 500D Macro Lens... actual image resized to 1024...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LA-DC58C adapter and 500D Macro Lens... full-sized crop from original...



Supplied 58mm adapter and 500D Macro Lens... full-sized crop from original...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LA-DC58C adapter and 500D Macro Lens... full-sized crop at 300%...



Supplied 58mm adapter and 500D Macro Lens... full-sized crop at 300%...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LA-DC58C adapter and 500D Macro Lens... full-sized crop at 400%...



Supplied 58mm adapter and 500D Macro Lens... full-sized crop at 400%...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Frankly, to see the differences even in the blow-ups, you should download the images and use a program like ACDSee that lets you flip back and forth between two images. Seeing them side-by-side, there's hardly any discernable difference, but you can notice a bit with the "flip" technique. The dots are a bit tighter, so you'll see more blue in the LA-DC58C images. The dots are slightly more smeared or fuzzy with the supplied 58mm adapter. But again, the differences are really small.

To repeat my own conclusion... most people will see little difference in the images produced by the two adapters, so if money is an issue, you can certainly use the supplied 58mm adapter and get good results. The all-metal LA-DC58C yields slightly better results, looks good on the camera and protects the fully extended zoom. I'm glad I have it but it does cost a bit. The LA-DC58C and 500D combination in Hong Kong cost me US$165.

I think I'd better go shoot something small right now to justify it.

Cheers,

Don

[marie]

you went to an awful lot of trouble

thank you very much

I can see what you are talking about
the differences are slight but there
and I agree with you about the adaptor being a good support on the camera most of the time.
it's a beautiful strong adaptor

are the last 4 photos repeated , in two's
(edit....correction ,see below )
the 300% crop and the 400%
and are they all showing just the information of the ring adaptor which came supplied with the Pro1
I only mention it as I want to make sure you were not trying to make a point there which I may have missed
~ ~ ~

I would rather use the LA-DC58C adaptor than the ring (adaptor) which came with the camera
as you know sometimes the ring can stick too tightly to the attachment lens and it could be a problem to some
especially if they get a mild panic attack like I did when it first happened and could not get them separated for love nor money


but just to tell, there is a happy answer

and it's straight from the horse's mouth
(Don's)



"Lay the entire assembly (adapter and filter) on something non-skid, like a rubber mat. Adapter side down. Now lay your palm right on top of the sandwich and twist counter-clockwise. Works every time. "

thanks again very much
you gave great detailed information , with pictures


ps

I enjoyed reading the weather etc on your phone


************* **************** *****************
edit later
regards what I said above
I just read this in your heading Don
missed seeing it first time


"I'm documenting my comments about resolution and detail with a couple of photos in four versions "





"

[Don Ellis]

> you went to an awful lot of trouble Don

Yes, I did...

> thank you very much

You're welcome... I did it mainly for you. And a little bit for myself and anyone else who really didn't want to take my word that the difference was minimal.

> Don , are the last 4 photos repeated , in two's (edit..

I double-checked everything AND STILL MISSED the fact that I mislabeled the shots. Amazing. I have since gone back and correctly labeled and colour-coded them.

> the 300% crop and the 400% and are they all showing
> just the information of the ring adaptor which came
> supplied with the Pro1 I only mention it as I want to
> make sure you were not trying to make a point there
> which I may have missed ~ ~ ~

As usual, it's me, not you. Mistake... but fixed now.

> I enjoyed reading the weather etc on your phone

It's amazing what you pick up in detail with the Pro 1... in this case I notice that I misspelled "detail" in the Tasks area of the screen... also fixed now.

Cheers,

Don

[marie]

thanks again Don



I was amazed you could get the weather forecast from Swindon on your mobile ,
but then again.......... having your name at the end of the Swin it's bound to be amazing

I saw 'dntails' on the small screen (and still do ) but thought Ron had sent you the message
(a secret coded one)

[Don Ellis]

One of the questions I've always had is whether the 500D can be used with additional close-up lenses -- despite the fact that Canon says no.

In my initial post, I screwed my 49mm Hoya +10 onto the 500D using a 58-49 step-down ring. The results weren't too bad, but there was some blurring around the edges. I made a guess that this was because of the 49mm Hoya and that the effect might disappear with a 58mm macro lens.

Unfortunately, Hoya only make the excellent, 2-element +10 macro lens in 49mm, 52mm and 55mm, so I reluctantly decided to purchase the 58mm B+W +10 Macro Lens (US$47 from B&H Photo). It arrived yesterday and I could tell there was trouble as soon as I opened it.

It turns out to be a piece of glass about 40mm in diameter mounted in a bit metal doughnut that's 58mm. Even my 49mm Hoya has glass about 45mm in diameter -- larger than the B+W. Needless to say, it's going back and I advised you not to bother with this piece of glass. Go for the Hoya.

I now plan to test the 49mm and 52mm Hoya +10s that I own and see if there's a difference. If there is, I'll likely buy the 55mm Hoya (hold your breath -- US$81 at B&H Photo). I'll keep you posted.

In the meantime, here are three photos that show you the problem. All three photos were taken as close to the Chinese 10-yuan banknote as it was possible to focus.

500D only...




500D and 58mm B+W Macro +10 Lens...




500D and 49mm Hoya +10 Macro Lens...



Despite the last shot (Hoya) being better than the B+W above it, there is still much to be desired for clarity. As I said, I'll do some experiments with the 49mm and 52mm Hoya and see what happens. One of these days, I might even come to a conclusion.

One other possibility is to forget going for +10 in any form and use a 58mm B+W +5 Close-up Lens, assuming there's actually a 58mm piece of glass in there.

Here's the comparison...



Cheers,

Don