Newbie videographer looking for pointers

[Raylon]

From everything I have read, the Tascam DR2D is the best beginning audio recorder. Apparently the mic's on the zooms aren't that great. I will be picking one up soon. It's only $200 on Amazon. I picked up one of these already too:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

It allows for the audio recorder to be mounted to the camera hotshoe. I know this will produce some handling noise but for a one person recording job it should work just fine.

[Chippy569]

Originally Posted by Panda_stunter

Thanks for the clarification Christina!

David, I asked about deleting the on-cam audio for the final production. As far as working production, it will just generally be hidden just in case syncing is screwed up.

After you have your video and external audio sync'd, you can remove the scratch track. Then, select the video and audio tracks, and right-click and hit "link" -- then they'll stay in sync.

[Chippy569]

Originally Posted by Raylon

From everything I have read, the Tascam DR2D is the best beginning audio recorder. Apparently the mic's on the zooms aren't that great. I will be picking one up soon. It's only $200 on Amazon. I picked up one of these already too:

For portable audio recorders, the Sony PCM-D50 has the best preamps and on-board mics. However, the 1/4" jacks for external mic ins means needing to use 1/4" to XLR adapters.

[Panda_stunter]

Originally Posted by videochicke

What state are you in?

Nevada.

Raylon and David, thanks for the heads up on the external recorders, I'm going to look into it.

[Raylon]

Originally Posted by Chippy569

For portable audio recorders, the Sony PCM-D50 has the best preamps and on-board mics. However, the 1/4" jacks for external mic ins means needing to use 1/4" to XLR adapters.

The pricepoint was a little steep for me. For under $200, it's hard to beat the Tascam.

[Chippy569]

Yeah, the sony is pricey. Tascam has the DR100, I think that's the model, that's really good too. The Zoom H4n is also good but it has some cheap analog electronics that do affect its sound somewhat noticeably.

[Panda_stunter]

David, what's the exact difference between analog and digital audio? And for what I'm going to do, which one is better?

And also, for either Sony or tascam, can I actually connect an external mic or is this just a directional mic?

[Chippy569]

Originally Posted by Panda_stunter

David, what's the exact difference between analog and digital audio? And for what I'm going to do, which one is better?

And also, for either Sony or tascam, can I actually connect an external mic or is this just a directional mic?

my comment was regarding the internal circuitry in the Zoom being a little wonky. All the recorders take an analog signal from a microphone, and eventually convert it to a digital signal which is saved in a file on the memory card. There are collections of circuitry on either side of where the conversion takes place, with different quality in terms of that circuitry as well as the analog-to-digital converter, which is why some recorders cost $20 and some $20,000.

In the Sony D50, you can sort of connect external mics, but there is no phantom power so if your microphones require it, you're out of luck. The Tascam DR-100 can have 2 external mics plugged into its 2 XLR jacks (same with the Zoom H4n). The Tascam DR-2D mentioned earlier is the same as the D50 in the external mic department.

[Panda_stunter]

When u say phantom power, u mean the mic feeding of power from the recorder right? If that's it, I'm actually thinking of still getting either the rode videomic (or pro) or the azden smx10. Since they are independently powered by either 9volt or AAA batteries. This also covers me for impromptu interviews I may have. Like behind the scenes, and getting feedbacks from everyone that helped in the production.

[Chippy569]

Originally Posted by Panda_stunter

When u say phantom power, u mean the mic feeding of power from the recorder right? If that's it, I'm actually thinking of still getting either the rode videomic (or pro) or the azden smx10. Since they are independently powered by either 9volt or AAA batteries. This also covers me for impromptu interviews I may have. Like behind the scenes, and getting feedbacks from everyone that helped in the production.

yes. Out of those two get the rode.

[Raylon]

Chippy, what would you recommend, an external recorder or something like a Rode that is shotgun mounted? I feel like the external would be more versatile, but I am still researching so I can't decide which is better.

[Chippy569]

The absolute best, most of the time, when the speech needs to be captured but microphones can't be in the shot, is a shotgun on a boom operated by a competent boom op, into a high quality recorder. The benefit here is that the boom op can move the mic to the speaker, alternating through the dialogue. (This is really tough!) If the mics can be seen, then a proper handheld is preferred, or a lav. A step down from there would be a mounted shotgun on a stand or similar, but if your actors are moving then you'll get weirdness as they pass in and out of the pickup pattern. Camera-mounted is the same, but then you become more likely to get sounds from the camera and its operator(s). A step further down is a bare stereo recorder like the zooms/etc. using its stereo mics. The problem here is for them to sound good you need to get close, which can interfere with your shot. They'll also pick up a lot of background noise and reverb.

So the question you should be asking, first, is "how important is sound" followed by "how much sound budget do I have?" The first question is really dependent on the content of your video. If you're shooting, say, a car show, then sound isn't typically as important as a one-on-one interview. That same question will help you determine just what kind of equipment is going to be OK -- for example, you could do the car show with just a Zoom (or even on-board on a 5D2 with AGC turned off) but for the interview you'd want something better.


One thing to consider is if there are rental companies near you. Most large cities have at least one pro AV/Film rental place, which can get you a good field recorder, mic, and boom for say $75 to $100 for a day. If you are only shooting for one day, then there's no need to sink tons of money into gear that won't get used often.


Now, what I assume you're really asking is what would be the minimal setup you'd want. This is really budget-dependent, and the sky's the limit in that department, but here's some standards:
1. Pro setup: Sennheiser MKH-416 mic, Rycote Windshield (kit 4), K-Tek KEG-100 boom pole, Sound Devices 702, porta-brace.... about $5k.
2. Not-so-pro setup: Rode NTG-3, Rode Blimp, Rode Boom, Tascam DR680, case... about $2k.
3. Acceptable setup: Rode NTG-1/2, Rode Blimp, tascam Dr-100... about $1k.
4. Cheap setup: Rode VideoMic Pro, Sony PCM D50... about $500
5. Budget setup: Rode VideoMic into camera.

Every step also needs headphones, cables, etc.

Of course there are a million other ways to configure each of those steps, but I'd say in terms of quality-to-price ratios those are about where everything stands.

[Panda_stunter]

David, the setup I'm gonna make is actually number 4 on ur list. So the Sony pcmd50, have internal input for an external mic, and an out for headphones right?

Also, I just want to makes sure, rode videomic (or pro) comes with a muff right?

[Raylon]

Originally Posted by Chippy569

The absolute best, most of the time, when the speech needs to be captured but microphones can't be in the shot, is a shotgun on a boom operated by a competent boom op, into a high quality recorder. The benefit here is that the boom op can move the mic to the speaker, alternating through the dialogue. (This is really tough!) If the mics can be seen, then a proper handheld is preferred, or a lav. A step down from there would be a mounted shotgun on a stand or similar, but if your actors are moving then you'll get weirdness as they pass in and out of the pickup pattern. Camera-mounted is the same, but then you become more likely to get sounds from the camera and its operator(s). A step further down is a bare stereo recorder like the zooms/etc. using its stereo mics. The problem here is for them to sound good you need to get close, which can interfere with your shot. They'll also pick up a lot of background noise and reverb.

So the question you should be asking, first, is "how important is sound" followed by "how much sound budget do I have?" The first question is really dependent on the content of your video. If you're shooting, say, a car show, then sound isn't typically as important as a one-on-one interview. That same question will help you determine just what kind of equipment is going to be OK -- for example, you could do the car show with just a Zoom (or even on-board on a 5D2 with AGC turned off) but for the interview you'd want something better.


One thing to consider is if there are rental companies near you. Most large cities have at least one pro AV/Film rental place, which can get you a good field recorder, mic, and boom for say $75 to $100 for a day. If you are only shooting for one day, then there's no need to sink tons of money into gear that won't get used often.


Now, what I assume you're really asking is what would be the minimal setup you'd want. This is really budget-dependent, and the sky's the limit in that department, but here's some standards:
1. Pro setup: Sennheiser MKH-416 mic, Rycote Windshield (kit 4), K-Tek KEG-100 boom pole, Sound Devices 702, porta-brace.... about $5k.
2. Not-so-pro setup: Rode NTG-3, Rode Blimp, Rode Boom, Tascam DR680, case... about $2k.
3. Acceptable setup: Rode NTG-1/2, Rode Blimp, tascam Dr-100... about $1k.
4. Cheap setup: Rode VideoMic Pro, Sony PCM D50... about $500
5. Budget setup: Rode VideoMic into camera.

Every step also needs headphones, cables, etc.

Of course there are a million other ways to configure each of those steps, but I'd say in terms of quality-to-price ratios those are about where everything stands.

Ahh this was so helpful. I will be getting Rode first them the external later. I appreciate the help!

[Chippy569]

Originally Posted by Panda_stunter

David, the setup I'm gonna make is actually number 4 on ur list. So the Sony pcmd50, have internal input for an external mic, and an out for headphones right?

Also, I just want to makes sure, rode videomic (or pro) comes with a muff right?

yeah, there's a jack on the side for an external stereo mic. Plug it in there (you'll only be recording in mono.) Make sure to use the battery on the mic.

Also, get the pro. Its build quality and the mount is so much better, not to mention better sound quality. Yes it comes with a foam wind cover, not going to be great in outdoor winds but will be enough indoors.