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Thread started 16 Sep 2011 (Friday) 10:04
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We have no budget for photos

 
scobols
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Sep 16, 2011 10:04 |  #1

An interesting read: A photographer's point of view regarding requests for free photos due to no budget for them.

http://tonysleep.co.uk​/node/687 (external link)

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Pingman
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Sep 16, 2011 10:22 |  #2

I love people that think this hobby/profession is without cost. Do they give their services/products away for free? Not. I agree with his take on the issue.


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suecassidy
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Sep 16, 2011 10:42 |  #3

Pingman wrote in post #13113108 (external link)
Supporting my own is next to impossible thanks to the current vogue for passing off exploitation as opportunity

I love that phrase, "passing off exploitation as OPPORTUNITY." When I was young and just starting out, I totally bought the "do this for me and all my friends will come to you" crap. Yeah, right. They will come and when they find out they actually have to PAY for pictures, they go away. Ditto for the silent auction requests, school and church fundraisers etc. If you give it away, give it away with zero expectation of mutual benefit, other than a warm fuzzy feeling perhaps.

The last time I heard the "we have no budget for photos" was from a friend on behalf of the bride, hoping that I would jump in and offer to do it for free, which of course I did NOT. I was friends with the brides parents, who are a doctor and a lawyer, and I wasn't really understanding the "no budget for photos" thing, but perhaps the kids were paying for their own wedding. I didn't know. I decided to not attend the wedding at all, even though I was invited, and as it turned out, they ended up getting a photographer last minute, despite the fact that they had "no budget" for one. I saw the pics and they were very good, but I don't know what they paid. The point is, half the time they say there is no budget for photos, it is as the person in the linked text said, it is merely "a starting point for negotiations, and is based on a lie."


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JackLiu
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Sep 16, 2011 13:59 |  #4

scobols wrote in post #13113008 (external link)
An interesting read: A photographer's point of view regarding requests for free photos due to no budget for them.

http://tonysleep.co.uk​/node/687 (external link)

Scott

This is an excellent read. I have done work for nonprofit organizations at reduced cost or no cost depending on my interest in their mission and/or my schedule.


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sapearl
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Sep 16, 2011 14:09 |  #5

JackLiu wrote in post #13114238 (external link)
This is an excellent read. I have done work for nonprofit organizations at reduced cost or no cost depending on my interest in their mission and/or my schedule.

I feel the same way about non-profits.

I'll donate periodic event coverage for my local PBS station and have had numerous opportunities to meet some very interesting people over the years. I do it because I support their mission and genuine like the people who appreciate my work and have never taken it for granted. Sadly, they have experienced minimal budgets and have had to lay people off to maintain service.

A small side benefit of this has been some interesting networking, and a few sales of my fine art work.


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Sep 16, 2011 14:10 as a reply to  @ JackLiu's post |  #6

My standard comment when someone says "but I get exposure" is
Okay, take a favorite book of yours that has a cover image or any number of images in them...now tell me..who is the photographer"...yeah exposure gets you a whole lot doesnt it...:rolleyes:


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Sep 16, 2011 14:27 as a reply to  @ digirebelva's post |  #7

A great link and he certainly hits the nail on the head. Those kind of people really piss me off.


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Sep 18, 2011 13:29 |  #8

Excluding companies, I don't think a lot of people are willing to pay for photography.

If I think back - the leaver's ball of my old year in Germany in 2009 - it was me and a guy from the year below shooting photographs (I moved to the UK in 2006).
If I think about family birthdays - nobody there would ever pay someone to shoot photographs.
If I think back to a "Gemeindefest" at a friends church - they didn't actually get someone to shoot photographs either.
The little concert this year (2011) - nope...

The honest assessment is: People will want photographs if they are out there, but they won't pay for them. Exceptions being news sites that use stock photography (although I have seen ZeitOnline use Getty images that they could have instead shot at a better quality in their own office with a point and shoot...)
So that leaves commercial websites from large corporations... but do they regularly ask for free photographs? I can't exactly imagine it.

Further - if the guy who wrote the page doesn't want to give a photograph away - then not. It is his choice. Plenty of other people will - so what?


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Sep 18, 2011 17:06 |  #9

DetlevCM wrote in post #13122683 (external link)
Excluding companies, I don't think a lot of people are willing to pay for photography.

If I think back - the leaver's ball of my old year in Germany in 2009 - it was me and a guy from the year below shooting photographs (I moved to the UK in 2006).
If I think about family birthdays - nobody there would ever pay someone to shoot photographs.
If I think back to a "Gemeindefest" at a friends church - they didn't actually get someone to shoot photographs either.
The little concert this year (2011) - nope...

The honest assessment is: People will want photographs if they are out there, but they won't pay for them. Exceptions being news sites that use stock photography (although I have seen ZeitOnline use Getty images that they could have instead shot at a better quality in their own office with a point and shoot...)
So that leaves commercial websites from large corporations... but do they regularly ask for free photographs? I can't exactly imagine it.

Further - if the guy who wrote the page doesn't want to give a photograph away - then not. It is his choice. Plenty of other people will - so what?

I can't speak for Europe, but plenty of folks in the U.S. are still willing to contract and pay for good, solid wedding photography. But I do agree about birthday parties - typically a friend will cover the event and then often put things online.


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DetlevCM
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Sep 19, 2011 02:03 |  #10

sapearl wrote in post #13123427 (external link)
I can't speak for Europe, but plenty of folks in the U.S. are still willing to contract and pay for good, solid wedding photography. But I do agree about birthday parties - typically a friend will cover the event and then often put things online.

I'm not sure about weddings...
I do know though that a fellow student had a very small wedding - with no budget for photography.
And I think when the sister of a good friend married, they didn't have a dedicated photographer either (Note think! - I wasn't there)

Maybe it's more common in the US to pay for photography then?


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Steve ­ of ­ Cornubia
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Sep 19, 2011 02:31 as a reply to  @ DetlevCM's post |  #11

My daughter spent three years learning skills for the Film & TV industry. The cost was actually more than many degrees, though she only went as high as an Advanced Dip. She wanted to be a sound engineer.

However, that was a year ago and she has pretty much given up trying to get a job in the industry. She has worked on a number of productions now, none of them paid because she was told everybody has to start off doing it for free, then when you've made a name for yourself, the paid offers will come.

Bullsh*t.

The fact is, there are twenty - fifty wannabees for every paid role - and that's at the bottom. Because of this, a large number of professional productions are made with a (mostly) unpaid crew, all of them giving their time and skills away for free in the hope the phone will ring sometime. But it never does. It's a simple case of oversupply and an industry that many, many young people want to work in. Consequently, the industry, or at least a large part of it, finds it never has to pay crew. Just tempt some young graduates to work for nothing until they start to ask for money, then ditch them and find some more, fresh out of film school.

And it isn't easy work. I went along to a weekend shoot with her and was staggered by the hours - 3:30am start and knock off at midnight, then 3:30am the next morning! Many of them didn't bother going home - it wasn't worth it.

So now she's going to be a vet, so another five years of study looms.......


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Sep 19, 2011 05:25 |  #12

DetlevCM wrote in post #13125797 (external link)
I'm not sure about weddings...
I do know though that a fellow student had a very small wedding - with no budget for photography.
And I think when the sister of a good friend married, they didn't have a dedicated photographer either (Note think! - I wasn't there)

Maybe it's more common in the US to pay for photography then?

Now I understand where you're coming from - in the context of student finances I can see and appreciate where you're coming from. But in the U.S. for folks who have entered the business world or have a regular paycheck it's quite standard to purchase wedding services.


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Sep 19, 2011 11:40 |  #13

sapearl wrote in post #13126104 (external link)
Now I understand where you're coming from - in the context of student finances I can see and appreciate where you're coming from. But in the U.S. for folks who have entered the business world or have a regular paycheck it's quite standard to purchase wedding services.

Maybe.

Although to be honest I can't quite see the point, as they could do it by themselves. (Tripod, family members etc.)
But I suppose everybody pays for what they want to pay.


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sapearl
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Sep 19, 2011 11:58 |  #14

DetlevCM wrote in post #13127507 (external link)
Maybe.

Although to be honest I can't quite see the point, as they could do it by themselves. (Tripod, family members etc.)
But I suppose everybody pays for what they want to pay.

Actually - no, they can't.

It is very hard to be IN a wedding and also thoroughly, totally cover it from start to finish, without being distracted by the party and other "family" issues that typically go on.

Tripods - yes, we still use them now and then but most people no longer use them for group shots and portraits. Not only can they get in the way at times, but things often fly at a much faster pace. It's hard to do dozens of portrait/group setups - and these are lists that I typically work from, given to me by the family - in less than 30 minutes without having to consider running back and forth to a tripod and timer.

And then there's expertise.

There is a reason why pro's charge what they do: many tend to be expert in their posing, style, art, eye, and crowd management. No slam to family members, but most are weak in all these areas. Now, if somebody is will to settle for this sort of thing for free, then it's a good deal. But then you get what you pay for. ;)


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Sep 19, 2011 12:03 |  #15

sapearl wrote in post #13127580 (external link)
Actually - no, they can't.

It is very hard to be IN a wedding and also thoroughly, totally cover it from start to finish, without being distracted by the party and other "family" issues that typically go on.

Tripods - yes, we still use them now and then but most people no longer use them for group shots and portraits. Not only can they get in the way at times, but things often fly at a much faster pace. It's hard to do dozens of portrait/group setups - and these are lists that I typically work from, given to me by the family - in less than 30 minutes without having to consider running back and forth to a tripod and timer.

And then there's expertise.

There is a reason why pro's charge what they do: many tend to be expert in their posing, style, art, eye, and crowd management. No slam to family members, but most are weak in all these areas. Now, if somebody is will to settle for this sort of thing for free, then it's a good deal. But then you get what you pay for. ;)

I suppose managing people might be an issue - you have a point there.
Although if someone told me to stay still for a photo I would just move quicker - away :D (I hate photos of myself) - or hide behind people.


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