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1D3...bumping up in-camera sharpening...any downsides?

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Thread started 11 Dec 2011 (Sunday) 05:11   
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LowriderS10
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So, the other day I was playing around with the Picture Styles on my 1D3 and just for kicks I turned up the "Sharpness" by only 2 notches and wow...MASSIVE difference without any apparent loss of detail or "plastick-y" feeling to the pictures.

My question is...are there any drawbacks to turning up the in-camera sharpening just a touch? (I shoot JPEG, yeah, yeah, it's bad, but I hate PP'ing, so I don't do RAW...I might, in time, but sharpening RAW is not an option at this point). Also...if there isn't much difference between in-camera JPEG sharpening and using something like PS CS5 to do it, I'd rather the camera handle it...

thanks,
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Post #1, Dec 11, 2011 05:11:27


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jase1125
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If you shoot higher iso images you might notice noise being sharpened

Post #2, Dec 11, 2011 07:09:04


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tzalman
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jase1125 wrote in post #13526322external link
If you shoot higher iso images you might notice noise being sharpened

+1

And also watch out for haloes on high contrast edges, like tree branches against the sky.

Post #3, Dec 11, 2011 07:58:02


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LowriderS10
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Ah thanks...I'm guessing there's no way to set up the camera so it only auto-sharpens up to a certain ISO, then backs it down as the ISO increases? (I've been through the menus a million times in the past year with this camera trying to learn every trick, but don't think I've bumped into something like that).

Also...right..the haloes I knew about when bumping contrast...for that reason I generally leave the contrast settings alone on the camera and do it in PP where I have a much better idea of whether I'm dealing with haloes or not. Would bumping only sharpness a notch or two be an issue for haloes?

Post #4, Dec 11, 2011 17:42:02


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tzalman
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Most sharpening is nothing more than increasing contrast across edges.

Actually, there is a sort of decrease in sharpening as ISO increases if you have High ISO Noise Reduction enabled. Sharpening and NR do opposite things and to a certain extent cancel each other out. The camera's NR automatically gets stronger as ISO goes up and therefore cancels more sharpening.

Post #5, Dec 11, 2011 18:33:53


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LowriderS10
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tzalman wrote in post #13528918external link
Most sharpening is nothing more than increasing contrast across edges.

Actually, there is a sort of decrease in sharpening as ISO increases if you have High ISO Noise Reduction enabled. Sharpening and NR do opposite things and to a certain extent cancel each other out. The camera's NR automatically gets stronger as ISO goes up and therefore cancels more sharpening.

Ah yeah...that makes perfect sense...hmmm...so should I just shoot at 0, 0, 0, 0, ?

I was just sooo happy with the results! haha...

Or maybe see if I can remember to shoot, let's say slightly sharpened at ISOs below 3200 and shoot at 0 sharpening at 3200 and 6400?

Post #6, Dec 11, 2011 20:07:58


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LarryD
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LowriderS10 wrote in post #13529350external link
Ah yeah...that makes perfect sense...hmmm...so should I just shoot at 0, 0, 0, 0, ?

I was just sooo happy with the results! haha...

Or maybe see if I can remember to shoot, let's say slightly sharpened at ISOs below 3200 and shoot at 0 sharpening at 3200 and 6400?

No, you shouldn't "just do that" because some guys on a forum do such-and-such.. We all have our way of setting our cameras and they vary tremendosly..

Since you almost always need to sharpen, and you find that a higher sharpen setting, in-camera, is best for your way of shooting, then by all means... that's what you should set.. :)

Post #7, Dec 11, 2011 21:15:43


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LowriderS10
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LarryD wrote in post #13529645external link
No, you shouldn't "just do that" because some guys on a forum do such-and-such.. We all have our way of setting our cameras and they vary tremendosly..

Since you almost always need to sharpen, and you find that a higher sharpen setting, in-camera, is best for your way of shooting, then by all means... that's what you should set.. :)

Hmmm thanks...and it won't have any noticeably detrimental effects on the picture? (I'm only talking about bumping it one or two notches from the factory default setting).

Post #8, Dec 11, 2011 21:21:59


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LarryD
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LowriderS10 wrote in post #13529678external link
Hmmm thanks...and it won't have any noticeably detrimental effects on the picture? (I'm only talking about bumping it one or two notches from the factory default setting).

I have my 1DIII set at 3 for sharpness.. I have never had any issues or seen any "detrimental" affects.. 3 is a pretty minor level; I know others who set a much higher sharpness value.

It's up to you to take your own images and determine if that is the best setting for you.... That's the reason that the camera has 10 levels as we all have our own work flow..

Where I notice the most impact is in setting the different picture styles, such as Landscape (which automatically chooses 3 sharpening)vs Neutral, but it is seldom in the area of sharpening, it is in the enhanced blues and greens that can have an impact on color rendition.. Shooting in raw and you can change any of these parameters, in jpeg you are stuck with what you choose.. The menu on the 1DIII is easy enough to change to neutral any time you feel that it is more beneficial to the scene..

Post #9, Dec 11, 2011 21:36:22


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LowriderS10
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LarryD wrote in post #13529758external link
I have my 1DIII set at 3 for sharpness.. I have never had any issues or seen any "detrimental" affects.. 3 is a pretty minor level; I know others who set a much higher sharpness value.

It's up to you to take your own images and determine if that is the best setting for you.... That's the reason that the camera has 10 levels as we all have our own work flow..

Where I notice the most impact is in setting the different picture styles, such as Landscape (which automatically chooses 3 sharpening)vs Neutral, but it is seldom in the area of sharpening, it is in the enhanced blues and greens that can have an impact on color rendition.. Shooting in raw and you can change any of these parameters, in jpeg you are stuck with what you choose.. The menu on the 1DIII is easy enough to change to neutral any time you feel that it is more beneficial to the scene..

Thanks :) appreciate your awesome answer :) Now...you said "shooting in RAW you can change any of these parameters." but that's only in PP, not actually on the camera, right?

Yeah, the Picture Styles dedicated button is one of the reasons I got the 1D3 (I used to use the PS a lot on my 30Ds...although ironically enough, I rarely use it on the 1D3).

Post #10, Dec 12, 2011 18:58:14


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If you shoot RAW and don't use DPP, those settings are worthless.

Post #11, Dec 12, 2011 19:04:27


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svarley
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I shoot raw (sometimes raw + jpg) and adjusting the sharpness affects the jpg preview that I use on the back of the camera and also in photo mechanic for culling. It doesn't affect the RAW image but it does make my life easier.

If you're uploading pics to an editor during a game you dn't have time to fuss with PP, but if you're just shooting for you, you can achieve the same effect by uploading all your raw images to say, Lightroom and applying the same sharpening and NR to all of them. That's basically what you're doing with picture styles and requires very little effort.

I won't try to convince you to shoow RAW but if you set the settings wrong and get nasty halos... you're screwed. It just depends on your preferences really. :)

Post #12, Dec 12, 2011 19:07:56




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LowriderS10
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Thanks...I play with Picture Styles for now, but I know...oh believe me I know...that I really should shoot RAW. I'm going on a big month-long trip to Europe this summer, I guess I should get myself comfortable with RAW before then :)

Post #13, Dec 12, 2011 20:12:32


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wfarrell4 wrote in post #13534912external link
If you shoot RAW and don't use DPP, those settings are worthless.

That's what I thought. RAW files will not be affected no matter what Picture Style is used.

Post #14, Dec 12, 2011 22:42:23


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LowriderS10 wrote in post #13535287external link
Thanks...I play with Picture Styles for now, but I know...oh believe me I know...that I really should shoot RAW. I'm going on a big month-long trip to Europe this summer, I guess I should get myself comfortable with RAW before then :)

I am an advocate of Raw shooting myself, and for those who are new to Raw/learning Raw I do consider the Canon Raw processing software Digital Photo Professional (DPP) a very valuable tool to have, both for good conversions, quick processing, learning about what Raw processing is all about, and, for those with other Raw processors, a good reference for how to make your shots "like a jpeg" and then, if possible, to improve them.

DPP "reads" your in-camera Picture Style settings (Contrast, Sharpness, Saturation, as well as White Balance and Noise Reduction, etc) and applies them for its initial review and for "quick conversions". And then, it gives you complete freedom to change things around and adjust them.

As to your original question, I would definitely work with the Picture Styles to change things around. For example, you could tweak the Landscape, Standard or Neutral/Faithful Picture Styles to be more to your liking. But, you can also create your own Picture Style in the Picture Style Editor, and load it using EOS Utilities. That way, you can have a Standard Picture Style with the default settings, or you could load one with the sharpening boost that you are talking about.

As has been mentioned, over-sharpening a jpeg in-camera can lead to artifacts that are not-so-pleasant, and not-so-easy to remove!

Post #15, Dec 13, 2011 03:05:08


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