1DIV or 5DIII: Trying to decide

[2slo]

I'm sure some of you know that I'm a keen bird photographer and shoot with a 7D etc (as per my sig).
I want to move on from the 7D as a lot of what I shoot is low light small birds where the much discussed increased ISO 7d noise issues don't help.
My dilemna: I was all set to buy a 1DIV based on it's spec and what it's capable of producing in terms of picture quality, no two ways - it's a fantastic piece of kit.
Two things then happen simultaneously: I try to find local stock of 1DIVs to buy and discover there are none. Seems it either is or soon will be out of production due to the 1DX coming soon and they won't be made in tandem. An online retailer in the UK has stock apparently but they are an untried source and I'd have to trust them and mail order it..
Second thing which happens is the 5DIII comes out. Image quality from what I've seen appears on par with the 1DIV, newer technology, AF system from the 1DX and, from what I've heard and read, even better low light servo success rate than the 1DIV. It has a slower fps rate (6 instead of 10), FF instead of 1.3 crop so I'd lose reach, won't AF at f/8 and seems designed for less hard use than the 1DIV (half the shutter life, not as weather proofed etc)
This comes as a kit in the UK with the 24-105 f/4 L lens (which I'd like to own but I'm not desperate for) for only slightly more than the 1DIV body only. I'm waiting for a retailer to get back to me, but they tell me they should have physical stock in within a couple of weeks.
Pros and cons for both options as you can see. I've already spoken to a couple of the bird forum regulars on part of this and your advice was appreciated.
What I'd really like to hear is comments from those who've used both bodies and what you would suggest in case I've overlooked anything? All constructive advice gratefully received.

[cfcRebel]

Well, I don't have a 5DMkIII but decided to make a noise. Sorry Mark. lol
No doubt both are suitable for bird photography, with each has its own pros and cons. I won't go there since you seem to have those reviewed. My take on this, would leave to the timing. From the reading and feeling, the 1D-X is VERY near. If history means anything, retailers won't stop selling the 1DMkIV when 1D-X hits the shelves. They'll probably try to unload the MkIV at discounted price. Perhaps at the moment would make your decision easier? We are talking about just a matter of weeks. June is the Olympics, and some 1D-X pre-orders are already promised to be delivered in June but i have a feeling that the new camera will be available sooner then that. Maybe after seeing and hearing the 1D-X review, you might even have a thought about it too. It's a possibility right?
So, I'd say, if you could wait a bit longer (just weeks), options might be more interesting. If not, either camera that you've mentioned, would be just fine for birds.

[bikeboynate]

Birds?

The Catch by NMB.Photography, on Flickr

The 5D3 is a GREAT camera for birds, especially with the 1Dx's AF system, it's just a dream!

[Cicada-]

i love my 5D3.

[2slo]

Originally Posted by cfcRebel

Well, I don't have a 5DMkIII but decided to make a noise. Sorry Mark. lol
No doubt both are suitable for bird photography, with each has its own pros and cons. I won't go there since you seem to have those reviewed. My take on this, would leave to the timing. From the reading and feeling, the 1D-X is VERY near. If history means anything, retailers won't stop selling the 1DMkIV when 1D-X hits the shelves. They'll probably try to unload the MkIV at discounted price. Perhaps at the moment would make your decision easier? We are talking about just a matter of weeks. June is the Olympics, and some 1D-X pre-orders are already promised to be delivered in June but i have a feeling that the new camera will be available sooner then that. Maybe after seeing and hearing the 1D-X review, you might even have a thought about it too. It's a possibility right?
So, I'd say, if you could wait a bit longer (just weeks), options might be more interesting. If not, either camera that you've mentioned, would be just fine for birds.

Thanks Fee, that does make a lot of sense. I've looked at the 1DX spec (which is all there is at present, other than people getting to hold it there isn't a shot from it to be seen AFAIK) and TBH it doesn't seem to offer much more to me than a 5D3. Time will tell though, if the reviews and posted images are knockout it might be worth paying for.
It could be that the last few 1Divs are discounted but, they seem to be in very short supply in buth the UK and the US so possibly supply and demand have equalled out there.
I'm not in a desperate rush to move on either, so yes, good call there, I'll sit and wait a while

Originally Posted by bikeboynate

Birds?

The Catch by NMB.Photography, on Flickr

The 5D3 is a GREAT camera for birds, especially with the 1Dx's AF system, it's just a dream!

Thanks. Everything I've seen so far tends to agree with that, just the loss of reach meaning the need to crop more for distant birds. Good Heron photograph BTW

Originally Posted by Cicada-

i love my 5D3.

Thanks, I don't doubt it. I'm sure I could be happy with one, I may yet be

[jhayesvw]

the 1d4 is PROVEN over time to be the best birding camera. Its FPS on BIF shots alone make it nicer than the 5d3.
its pixel density is similar or probably a bit higher than the 5d3.
its low light ability is great. the 5d3 hasnt shown to be any better for use on birds.

with that said, I would take either body as theyre both very good.
but if I was spending my money, it would be on a 1d4.

[icassell]

There has been a lot of discussion (and examples) of this on birdphotographers.net . Some of the best bird photographers in the world are there.

I think Art Morris bought 2 of the 5D3's. The take is that the AF on the 5D3 is the best of any camera out there (and these are guys who own multiple 1D4's).

My concern would be going to a FF camera for birds. That would absolutely necessitate me going to one of the super-teles (my 400/5.6 would effectively shrink if I went to a FF body) and I don't know where I'd ever come up with the $$ for that especially after spending money on a new body.

So, for the moment, I'm sticking with my 7D (which I love).

[Duane N]

Originally Posted by 2slo

just the loss of reach meaning the need to crop more for distant birds.

The nice thing about the 1DIV over the 7D is even though the 1DIV is a 1.3 crop body I can actually crop my images more than my 7D (1.6 crop body) and the images are cleaner (best way to explain the difference in quality between the 1DIV and the 7D).

I've never used a 5DIII mind you but I take a lot of bif's and like the 10 fps. I also like the added security of wear and tear...I take a lot of pics.

Whatever you do decide on I think you will be happy...I know I was when I got my 1DIV...haven't used the 7D since then.

[2slo]

Originally Posted by jhayesvw

the 1d4 is PROVEN over time to be the best birding camera. Its FPS on BIF shots alone make it nicer than the 5d3.
its pixel density is similar or probably a bit higher than the 5d3.
its low light ability is great. the 5d3 hasnt shown to be any better for use on birds.

with that said, I would take either body as theyre both very good.
but if I was spending my money, it would be on a 1d4.

Thanks Jeremy, all very valid points.

Originally Posted by icassell

There has been a lot of discussion (and examples) of this on birdphotographers.net . Some of the best bird photographers in the world are there.

I think Art Morris bought 2 of the 5D3's. The take is that the AF on the 5D3 is the best of any camera out there (and these are guys who own multiple 1D4's).

My concern would be going to a FF camera for birds. That would absolutely necessitate me going to one of the super-teles (my 400/5.6 would effectively shrink if I went to a FF body) and I don't know where I'd ever come up with the $$ for that especially after spending money on a new body.

So, for the moment, I'm sticking with my 7D (which I love).

Thanks Ian, I'll be in the same position if I go FF. The loss of the 1.6 crop factor will hurt I'm sure. You're right about Arthur Morris getting a 5D3 (or two) I read his blog a couple of days ago with some example shots which were, of course, superb.
One day I might afford a super tele but for now, like most, I'm doing what I can with my 300 f/4 and 400 f/5.6. With the demise of the 1DIV and Canons new top pro body the 1DX being FF, we all need a rethink.

Originally Posted by Duane N

The nice thing about the 1DIV over the 7D is even though the 1DIV is a 1.3 crop body I can actually crop my images more than my 7D (1.6 crop body) and the images are cleaner (best way to explain the difference in quality between the 1DIV and the 7D).

I've never used a 5DIII mind you but I take a lot of bif's and like the 10 fps. I also like the added security of wear and tear...I take a lot of pics.

Whatever you do decide on I think you will be happy...I know I was when I got my 1DIV...haven't used the 7D since then.

Interesting points Duane, thanks. Most of the 1Div images I see are at least very good. I would be happy with a 1Div I'm sure but, Fee was spot on with the 1st response above, best thing for me to do is wait a while and see how prices start moving on the 1Div with the imminent arrival of the 1DX.

[icassell]

If you've never checked it out, log on to birdphotographers.net. Artie has his blog, but several other professional bird photographers as well have posted re the 5D3 along with some interesting direct comparisons with the 1D4. You could also consider a used 1D4.

[2slo]

Originally Posted by icassell

If you've never checked it out, log on to birdphotographers.net. Artie has his blog, but several other professional bird photographers as well have posted re the 5D3 along with some interesting direct comparisons with the 1D4. You could also consider a used 1D4.

Thanks Ian, I looked at it some months ago but will revisit.
A used 1D4 would make good financial sense I'm sure, I just like to buy new. It may seem stupid but I like getting the new shiny toy out of the box

[icassell]

Originally Posted by 2slo

I like getting the new shiny toy out of the box

Yeah, me too. On the other hand, the only way I will ever afford a super-tele is used.

[jhayesvw]

Originally Posted by Duane N

The nice thing about the 1DIV over the 7D is even though the 1DIV is a 1.3 crop body I can actually crop my images more than my 7D (1.6 crop body) and the images are cleaner (best way to explain the difference in quality between the 1DIV and the 7D).

Ive always wondered this. with the .3 crop missing and the lower megapixels on a larger sensor, I figured the images could not be cropped as much.
if this is true, then the 1d4 looks even better than it already did.

[Jim Neiger]

I have spent a few days photographing with the 5D3 and I have owned the 1D4 for a long time now. The 5D3 has noticably better AF, but this is not enough to overcome the other advantages of the 1D4. High ISO noise is about the same as the 1D4, but the 1d4 wins due to it's frame rate and 1.3 crop sensor. I suspect the 1Dx will be closer to the 1D4, but I plan to stick with the 1D4 until canon comes out with a camera that changes my mind. That said the 5D3 is a fantastic camera.

[racketman]

Warehouse Express now has 1D MKIV in stock (£3492*), HDEW (£3085) is cheaper when in stock but you wont get the Canon UK warranty although by all accounts their own warranty is fine.
*includes free Lowepro Slingshot 302 AW.
My own finger is hovering but for Dragonflies more than birds where I think the 10fps is more useful than the advantages of the 5D3