Focus stack techniques?

chauncey · 9th of May 2012 (Wed)

From my way of thinking there are basically two ways of accomplishing the "image taking" part of the equation...
you can "lock down" the subject and the camera and take numerous images and use the focusing ring to bring the various planes into focus (this method maintains the same subject size within the frame) or...
you can move the camera itself closer/farther from/to the subject to achieve that plane of focus, as in using focusing rails (this method alters the relative size of the subject within the image).

Which of the two methods yields the best results using your software of choice (CS5 in my case)...is there a discernible difference?

tonylong · 9th of May 2012 (Wed)

I've had good results just from "bracketing the focus"/using the ring, but then I don't have a rail to experiment with! But I do lean toward keeping the subject the same size in my frame!

calypsob · 9th of May 2012 (Wed)

I use a 4-way macro focus rail and I have been using CS5 to do focus stacking. I have to say that the results have been awful when using photoshop to focus stack. I have watched videos on line that make it seem really simple and when I try and do it myself the results are very unsatisfying. Photoshop tries to do to much for the user, they have basically made it to simple for the user to be able to go back and manually correct errors. After reading an online book called, The Art of Focus Stacking, it seems that zerene stacker is probably the best software available for doing this sort of work and I intend to purchase it when I have some money. Photoshop is great for many things but it lags in the areas or focus stacking, panorama, and HDR creation big time. Here is a link to the art of focus stacking book and many other books that he offers for free. I don't know why they are free but I do know that he is awesome for sharing such rare knowledge. http://www.macrostop.com/

afoton · 11th of May 2012 (Fri)

The best method is focusing without changing the perspective. For doing this, you can't move the entrance pupil (the same rule as in panorama stitching).

You can do this if you combine focusing rail with the focusing ring, but its not practical.
When using bellows, you manage this with focusing only with the rear standard.
Another way, is to use a object side telecentric lens, and a regular focusing rail. When the entrance pupil is infinity away, it virtually not move when using the rail

chauncey · 28th of May 2012 (Mon)

A little late in coming and for that I apologize. The link from calypsob http://www.astrologysoftware.com/dow...cuStacking.pdf proved enlightening...thanks guys.

AbPho · 28th of May 2012 (Mon)

Depends. Moving the camera is a lot easier than trying focus. Depends on magnification, subject, etc.

As for software there is Photoshop like you mentioned. Helicon Focus. Zerene Stacker (this is what I use).

Photoshop is create at combining landscape scenes. But will bugs and all the intricate details that come with them it falls apart. Many images with very narrow depth field won't stack properly in PS.

From what I am told Helicon can't deal with deep high magnification stacks. But for images in the 1:1 or 2:1 realm it will be just fine.

Zerene stacker can handle very deep stacks. I believe someone successfully staked 1000 images. I think Zerene and Helicon cost the same. It comes down to personal preference and what type of shots you are going to be taking. Both come with a trial period (30 days I think).

Head on over to www.photomacrography.net for all the info you could possible need. Be ready for a mind overload. That place is packed with info and a group of really smart folks. (not putting POTN down). And get ready to spend some serious cash if you stay long enough.

roofero · 2nd of June 2012 (Sat)

Quote:

Originally Posted by calypsob

I use a 4-way macro focus rail and I have been using CS5 to do focus stacking. I have to say that the results have been awful when using photoshop to focus stack. I have watched videos on line that make it seem really simple and when I try and do it myself the results are very unsatisfying. Photoshop tries to do to much for the user, they have basically made it to simple for the user to be able to go back and manually correct errors. After reading an online book called, The Art of Focus Stacking, it seems that zerene stacker is probably the best software available for doing this sort of work and I intend to purchase it when I have some money. Photoshop is great for many things but it lags in the areas or focus stacking, panorama, and HDR creation big time. Here is a link to the art of focus stacking book and many other books that he offers for free. I don't know why they are free but I do know that he is awesome for sharing such rare knowledge. http://www.macrostop.com/

Thank you for the macrostop link. WOW! This guy is unbelievable.

speters2 · 8th of June 2012 (Fri)

Quote:

Originally Posted by calypsob

I use a 4-way macro focus rail and I have been using CS5 to do focus stacking. I have to say that the results have been awful when using photoshop to focus stack. I have watched videos on line that make it seem really simple and when I try and do it myself the results are very unsatisfying. Photoshop tries to do to much for the user, they have basically made it to simple for the user to be able to go back and manually correct errors. After reading an online book called, The Art of Focus Stacking, it seems that zerene stacker is probably the best software available for doing this sort of work and I intend to purchase it when I have some money. Photoshop is great for many things but it lags in the areas or focus stacking, panorama, and HDR creation big time. Here is a link to the art of focus stacking book and many other books that he offers for free. I don't know why they are free but I do know that he is awesome for sharing such rare knowledge. http://www.macrostop.com/

I have Zerene Stacker and it is an awesome program, I also have a couple of HDR programs, both highly regarded, but I prefer PS CS5 for stacking images or for making HDR's, it is just as good as Zerene (no lacking here) and HDR's are much better coming out of Photoshop than out of any HDR programs IMO,

Stephan

aquaregia · 24th of February 2013 (Sun)

I am just starting out with focus stacking. I tried a 15 image stack with Zerene, and ended up with a quarter to a third of the resultant image with horizontal and vertical streaks, as well as some ghosting in other areas. CS6 was able to produce a stack without major artifacts. While I was satisfied with some of the areas of the image, others appeared somewhat blotchy. I will try Helicon next.

Acidomoduso · 25th of February 2013 (Mon)

You could try this with a Raspberry Pi...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eMzD0t0Lrg

DQE · 25th of February 2013 (Mon)

A systematic comparison of Photoshop CS5 vs Zerene is given here, along with a forum discussion thread:

http://www.photomacrography.net/foru...ic.php?t=14810

My impression is that most serious stackers are now using Zerene. Any single stack may of course benefit from one of the available stacking software packages, depending heavily on the quality of the input slices.

I hope this additional information and my few comments are helpful.

(Disclosure: I own Photoshop CS6 and Zerene, as well as the Stackshot automated stacking rail hardware.)

ZoneV · 26th of February 2013 (Tue)

Quote:

Originally Posted by afoton

The best method is focusing without changing the perspective. For doing this, you can't move the entrance pupil (the same rule as in panorama stitching).
...

It seems this would help me for my stacks of a wasp yesterday. Normal stacking with the hole lens + camera combination results in problems with all thes hairs in front of the eye.
But with a infinity microscope lens this is not as easy as far as I understand.

Probably I have to test the telecentric way - thought about it some time ago. Now it is probably a good time.

Another stack with a leg in front of the eye would give the same bad result because of my normal stacking setup :-/

StayFrosty · 1st of March 2013 (Fri)

I recently got a really good app called DSLR Controller (http://dslrcontroller.com/). It can control the camera's focus in exact steps which makes it very easy to stack when I get the images into photoshop. It has the added advantage of being able to see the actual images I'm taking nice and big on the tablet screen.

I only got the app a few days ago and it just so happens that I'm going to potter around with focus stacking this afternoon, I've a hunch that I will prefer this to moving the camera along focus rails which feels a bit too vague for my taste, although admittedly my focus rails are cheap amazon.co.uk ones

I tried the demo of Zerene and compared it to Photoshop CS5, it seemed to me that Photoshop worked better on some images and Zerene on others?

edit: oops I see that this is an old topic!

chauncey · 1st of March 2013 (Fri)

Let us know how it turns out...btw, what device are you using it on?

StayFrosty · 1st of March 2013 (Fri)

On a Nexus 10, I only got it last week and have been trying out lots of photography related apps with it.

9th of May 2012 (Wed)	#1
chauncey Cream of the Crop Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: MI/CO Posts: 7,672 IMAGE EDITING OK	Focus stack techniques? From my way of thinking there are basically two ways of accomplishing the "image taking" part of the equation... you can "lock down" the subject and the camera and take numerous images and use the focusing ring to bring the various planes into focus (this method maintains the same subject size within the frame) or... you can move the camera itself closer/farther from/to the subject to achieve that plane of focus, as in using focusing rails (this method alters the relative size of the subject within the image). Which of the two methods yields the best results using your software of choice (CS5 in my case)...is there a discernible difference? __________________ The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever. A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm. Gear...Ds Mk III, 16-35 f/2.8, 24-105 f/4.0, 70-200 f/4 and f/2.8, 300 f/2.8, and assorted other stuff.

9th of May 2012 (Wed)	#2
tonylong ....winded Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Posts: 47,187 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Focus stack techniques? I've had good results just from "bracketing the focus"/using the ring, but then I don't have a rail to experiment with! But I do lean toward keeping the subject the same size in my frame! __________________ Tony Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro) Tony Long Photos on PBase Wildlife project pics here, Biking Photog shoots here, "Suburbia" project here! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here

9th of May 2012 (Wed)	#3
calypsob Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: auburn alabama Posts: 615	Re: Focus stack techniques? I use a 4-way macro focus rail and I have been using CS5 to do focus stacking. I have to say that the results have been awful when using photoshop to focus stack. I have watched videos on line that make it seem really simple and when I try and do it myself the results are very unsatisfying. Photoshop tries to do to much for the user, they have basically made it to simple for the user to be able to go back and manually correct errors. After reading an online book called, The Art of Focus Stacking, it seems that zerene stacker is probably the best software available for doing this sort of work and I intend to purchase it when I have some money. Photoshop is great for many things but it lags in the areas or focus stacking, panorama, and HDR creation big time. Here is a link to the art of focus stacking book and many other books that he offers for free. I don't know why they are free but I do know that he is awesome for sharing such rare knowledge. http://www.macrostop.com/

11th of May 2012 (Fri)	#4
afoton Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Norway Posts: 175	Re: Focus stack techniques? The best method is focusing without changing the perspective. For doing this, you can't move the entrance pupil (the same rule as in panorama stitching). You can do this if you combine focusing rail with the focusing ring, but its not practical. When using bellows, you manage this with focusing only with the rear standard. Another way, is to use a object side telecentric lens, and a regular focusing rail. When the entrance pupil is infinity away, it virtually not move when using the rail

28th of May 2012 (Mon)	#5
chauncey Cream of the Crop Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: MI/CO Posts: 7,672 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Focus stack techniques? A little late in coming and for that I apologize. The link from calypsob http://www.astrologysoftware.com/dow...cuStacking.pdf proved enlightening...thanks guys. __________________ The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever. A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm. Gear...Ds Mk III, 16-35 f/2.8, 24-105 f/4.0, 70-200 f/4 and f/2.8, 300 f/2.8, and assorted other stuff.

28th of May 2012 (Mon)	#6
AbPho Goldmember Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,576 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Focus stack techniques? Depends. Moving the camera is a lot easier than trying focus. Depends on magnification, subject, etc. As for software there is Photoshop like you mentioned. Helicon Focus. Zerene Stacker (this is what I use). Photoshop is create at combining landscape scenes. But will bugs and all the intricate details that come with them it falls apart. Many images with very narrow depth field won't stack properly in PS. From what I am told Helicon can't deal with deep high magnification stacks. But for images in the 1:1 or 2:1 realm it will be just fine. Zerene stacker can handle very deep stacks. I believe someone successfully staked 1000 images. I think Zerene and Helicon cost the same. It comes down to personal preference and what type of shots you are going to be taking. Both come with a trial period (30 days I think). Head on over to www.photomacrography.net for all the info you could possible need. Be ready for a mind overload. That place is packed with info and a group of really smart folks. (not putting POTN down). And get ready to spend some serious cash if you stay long enough. __________________ I'm from Canada. Isn't that weird! Website flickr

24th of February 2013 (Sun)	#9
aquaregia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 11	Re: Focus stack techniques? I am just starting out with focus stacking. I tried a 15 image stack with Zerene, and ended up with a quarter to a third of the resultant image with horizontal and vertical streaks, as well as some ghosting in other areas. CS6 was able to produce a stack without major artifacts. While I was satisfied with some of the areas of the image, others appeared somewhat blotchy. I will try Helicon next.

25th of February 2013 (Mon)	#10
Acidomoduso Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hampshire,UK Posts: 34 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Focus stack techniques? You could try this with a Raspberry Pi... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eMzD0t0Lrg __________________ Canon 5D - Sigma 12-24 - Canon 24-70L - Canon 50mm f1.8 - Tamron 70-300 - Canon 580EXII - Elinchrom BX400's - Elinchrom BXRI500's.

25th of February 2013 (Mon)	#11
DQE Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: near Portland, Maine Posts: 135	Re: Focus stack techniques? A systematic comparison of Photoshop CS5 vs Zerene is given here, along with a forum discussion thread: http://www.photomacrography.net/foru...ic.php?t=14810 My impression is that most serious stackers are now using Zerene. Any single stack may of course benefit from one of the available stacking software packages, depending heavily on the quality of the input slices. I hope this additional information and my few comments are helpful. (Disclosure: I own Photoshop CS6 and Zerene, as well as the Stackshot automated stacking rail hardware.) __________________ --Phil Canon gear: 5D MkII, 5D, MPE-65, 100 mm 2.8 macro, 85 mm f1.2 L, 16-35 mm f2.8, 24-105 mm L, MT-24, MR-14; 550EX flash (2 units); Gitzo 2548 tripod; Gitzo monopod; Acratech Ultimate Ballhead; Manfrotto 410 geared tripod head; Cognisys StackShot rail & controller

1st of March 2013 (Fri)	#13
StayFrosty Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 169 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Focus stack techniques? I recently got a really good app called DSLR Controller (http://dslrcontroller.com/). It can control the camera's focus in exact steps which makes it very easy to stack when I get the images into photoshop. It has the added advantage of being able to see the actual images I'm taking nice and big on the tablet screen. I only got the app a few days ago and it just so happens that I'm going to potter around with focus stacking this afternoon, I've a hunch that I will prefer this to moving the camera along focus rails which feels a bit too vague for my taste, although admittedly my focus rails are cheap amazon.co.uk ones I tried the demo of Zerene and compared it to Photoshop CS5, it seemed to me that Photoshop worked better on some images and Zerene on others? edit: oops I see that this is an old topic! __________________ 500px flickr Vimeo Last edited by StayFrosty : 1st of March 2013 (Fri) at 04:50.

1st of March 2013 (Fri)	#14
chauncey Cream of the Crop Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: MI/CO Posts: 7,672 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Focus stack techniques? Let us know how it turns out...btw, what device are you using it on? __________________ The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever. A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm. Gear...Ds Mk III, 16-35 f/2.8, 24-105 f/4.0, 70-200 f/4 and f/2.8, 300 f/2.8, and assorted other stuff.

1st of March 2013 (Fri)	#15
StayFrosty Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 169 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Focus stack techniques? On a Nexus 10, I only got it last week and have been trying out lots of photography related apps with it. __________________ 500px flickr Vimeo

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