Photography and school

[Foodguy]

Take a class or 10. There's no substitute for being in a creative environment with others who are excited about learning. No amount of "on-line tutorials" will provide the same kind of experience.

I've taken classes at the college level (long, long ago...) and have taught classes at the college level (more recently) and have experienced and witnessed the results. Do it, you won't regret it.

[flowrider]

I did a 2 year photography program that was great. It exposes you to much more than a forum or online learning can ever do. Where else do you have access to full equipped studios, medium format, 4x5, and 8x10 systems? Often (in my program) we printed everything from B&W to Cibachromes as well. We matted and framed large prints, discussed business aspects, had seminars from established pros.

Courses will also have practicum components which help you to get your foot in the door to start assisting.

these along with the reasons listed are why I think taking a program is valuable.

[Gameface]

I went to school for film (moving film). I picked up photography as a hobby many moons ago. I knew all about exposure, composition, yada, yada, yada.

A couple years ago I took a couple night workshop courses at NESOP for advanced digital photography. While I knew the MAJORITY of the info in the class, I did learn some stuff. It also urged me to get out and shoot more creatively for class projects and to look at what others were capturing. The workshops were I think 8 weeks for a couple hundred bucks. Well worth it in my opinion and look forward to do more intense ones on studio lighting in the future.

[Wilt]

Originally Posted by outtamymind

OP rather then taking a class maybe see if there are some workshops taking place in your area. these are more likely to be less expensive and you can take them at your leisure.

One of the very best things that I did, after already having 15 years of photography in my background, and having a good amount of my own studio lighting gear, was to take a product photography lighting workshop from a commercial photographer. I learned so much more from the dialog and 'war stories' provided by him, and practical tips and tricks, and then putting that insight into practice in setting up and lighting and shooting my own 'product photo' during the workshop.

It seems that the syllabus from that course is pretty complete, and covers a lot of 'commercial' uses of lighting.

Interesting to see the required equipment list, and the optional list...there are only 2 or 3 things on the option list which I am not already in possession of. I can fully understand the reason for the long list of things, but having to invest that much in gear to take the course is a big pill to swallow first! Having the gear, and then deciding to take the course, the course itself is very reasonably priced!

I, too, have offered instruction both at the college level and in small classes. The interactivity affords tons of information to be shared between instructor and student. Done properly, the self study can be beneficial, but it also can be dry and less beneficial. There is tremendous value in having an instructor present, to provide suggestions and critique of what you think is great...and then find out all the sins you have not avoided!

[Clean Gene]

Originally Posted by Wilt

One of the very best things that I did, after already having 15 years of photography in my background, and having a good amount of my own studio lighting gear, was to take a product photography lighting workshop from a commercial photographer. I learned so much more from the dialog and 'war stories' provided by him, and practical tips and tricks, and then putting that insight into practice in setting up and lighting and shooting my own 'product photo' during the workshop.

It seems that the syllabus from that course is pretty complete, and covers a lot of 'commercial' uses of lighting.

Interesting to see the required equipment list, and the optional list...there are only 2 or 3 things on the option list which I am not already in possession of. I can fully understand the reason for the long list of things, but having to invest that much in gear to take the course is a big pill to swallow first! Having the gear, and then deciding to take the course, the course itself is very reasonably priced!

I, too, have offered instruction both at the college level and in small classes. The interactivity affords tons of information to be shared between instructor and student. Done properly, the self study can be beneficial, but it also can be dry and less beneficial. There is tremendous value in having an instructor present, to provide suggestions and critique of what you think is great...and then find out all the sins you have not avoided!

It really does make a HUGE difference just who the teacher is. Even if they're teaching the exact same course and have the exact same requirements, having a GOOD teacher there to personally guide you can make a big freaking difference.

Little anecdote. The college that I go to has a few photography teachers. I've heard a LOT of students complain about Mr X, saying that he's mean and a bit of a hardass. He's also the head of the photography department. A bunch of students also apparently went to his boss to complain about him being a mean old stinky-head, and apparently for now he's having to record his lectures just to keep his ass out of trouble. I don't really know the story, but it's easy to pick up things. People say stuff, even when they're NOT talking about it.


Which is frankly, a load of BS. That man is by far the best damn photography instructor they have.

Is he sort of a jerk? Well, sometimes...yeah. Does he insult people? Sort of, but in my experience never without insulting himself as well. He IS a hardass, and he takes a VERY active level of involvement with his students' work. He'll flunk your ass, he'll talk down to you, but his point is ALWAYS clear: "you can do better".

On the other hand, I just finished a commercial photography course with Ms Z. Don't get me wrong, I think she's really freaking cool. And as far as work goes, I generally prefer her work over that done by Mr X. But my problem with Ms Z is that she ISN'T a hardass. Case in point, this was a class that REQUIRED using potentially deadly (or at least "expensive if broken") studio equipment. One of the biggest freaking rules was to NOT shoot in the studio without an assistant on-hand.

Well, several times I started setting up in the studio with the intention of going into the classroom to find an assistant, and then just found myself doing the shoot entirely alone. So the teacher walks in, sees that I'm shooting alone and asks, "where's your assistant?" To which I then say, "oh crap, I forgot. Let me go get someone to help me." At which point she says, "meh, you know what you're doing. Just come get me if you have any questions."

And that should not happen.

Another example...I went through nearly an entire semester of Ms Z's class while only getting input from her on about 5% of the work. She never asked to see the stuff that I cut out because I thought it was crap, and the only time I ever ASKED for her input was when I knew my work was crap and I actually left myself time to reshoot. Bottom line is that for most of the semester, the teacher was just like, "meh, he knows what he's doing" and actually let me keep going without seeing ANY of what I was working on.

That also shouldn't happen.

Worst of all, I think I was late on about 80% of the assignments (in a few cases, VERY late, which is supposed to be a guaranteed F for that assignment). I ultimately ended up checking my grades and...I got an A. Either I misread my grade, or the grading criteria is so ****ed up to even allow an A with that many late assignments, or the teacher was like, "meh, he knows what he's doing. A."

That REALLY shouldn't happen.

Don't get me wrong, I still learned a lot in Ms Z's class. But the point is this...Mr X inspired me to be better. He made me realize that I'm not doing nearly good enough. Ms Z was just sort of like, "this isn't his type of thing, I'll leave him alone and give him a good grade so that he can go on and do the type of stuff that he does." And don't get me wrong, I love both of them...they're awesome people who do awesome work. But one of them is a lot more awesome as a TEACHER.

[SkipD]

Originally Posted by iisrandy

Now about the topic.
She always brings up how i should take some kind of classes in college because im "really good". Even though I have a lot of learning to do.. Im the type of person that likes to learn stuff on my own. Well my question. How many of you guys have taken classes? What classes, what did it teach you, was it worth the time and did it help at all? I see there are beginner intermediate classes. What are they going to be teaching me? I have noticed they have "photoshop" classes as well. I think that would be better for me than a actual photography class? I should probably be asking the school this instead of you guys but it could never hurt.

Randy, I am essentially a "self-taught" photographer. However, I started way back when there was NO camera automation at all. Yes, there were a few in-camera meters in those days but they did did not control the camera at all. Since the in-camera meters were rather awkward and could not be used for incident readings very handily (a large gray card was needed), I usually used a handheld meter in those days (and still do).

If you are using the camera's automation now, I very strongly suggest that you put the exposure mode dial into "M" and leave it there for at least a year or more. Get yourself a good handheld light meter such as the Sekonic L-358 that I use these days. Learn about light. Learn about controlling your exposures in less-than-ideal situations. Learn about how the color and reflectivity of your subjects and backgrounds can "fool" a meter's reading.

Learn about things like controlling perspective in your images and other composition concepts.

You will definitely want to learn about post-processing techniques. Choose a good photo editing software package and buy a good book or two to help you learn that software's capabilities.

When I started in photography I did all of my own processing (using mostly black & white film). I was lucky in that I had a photo lab that I could use on the Army base that I was assigned to and there were a couple of folks that I knew who helped me get started. Books and magazines were the places where I learned more while I experimented in the photo lab. You can do essentially the same sort of things I did, but with digital imaging and software instead of film and stinky chemistry, today.

Learn to control your photography. YOU do the thinking. YOU "see" the image you want to produce in your head first and then figure out how to make the camera capture what you're imagining the way you want it to be. YOU learn to control your post-processing to fine-tune the images to present your concept of the image to the folks who view your work.

The learning process is something that NEVER STOPS if you're serious about your work. This applies in any field of endeavor. For me, it applies in photography, wood working, metal fabrication, gunsmithing, electronics, electrical work, plumbing, painting a house, repairing stuff, and doing anything else that I want to do well. ALWAYS think about the end product you are trying to produce and figure out what you can do to make it better.

The world wide web is a fantastic source of information these days, much like yesterday's libraries and magazines were for me. Unfortunately, there is a lot of mis-information on the web that you'll have to wade through. One of the reasons that I spend a lot of time on forums like this is to help folks understand what's good information as well as what's not. There's a lot of bad advise being given about a lot of subjects on the web. You can determine when you really understand a subject by realizing what information is bogus. You can also learn more by teaching others.

[birdfromboat]

I took some classes at our local community college to satisfy the arts requirement for a degree I was working on and I have been glad I did. I did learn alot even though I went in with plenty of experience and a good understanding of most aspects covered in the classes I took.

The best things I got from the experience werethe ability to buy software at a greatly reduced price at the college bookstore, free access to the huge printers, and the opportunity to experiment with photoshop on brand new Apple computers without having to buy one. The networking and feild trips were fun, the ability to trade cameras with fellow students and try different gear, all of it was definitely financially a great investment and I would recommend it to any photographer at any skill level.

[DStanic]

Is your aunt into photography? Maybe take a class with her too that might be fun bonding time.

[iisrandy]

Camera has been in "M" pretty much from day 1 (: