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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #1
watson76
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Default I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

Oh, what a pain in the ass gear can be. So I have an XSI and I love the output, but the screen sucks for checking focus, buffering is quite slow (shooting RAW + JPG) and focus is hit or miss.

I typically only take pictures of my twin girls who while only 10 months old move enough that nailing focus on the XSI requires burst shooting to hopefully get a sharp picture. Checking focus on the XSI lcd (which I do quite a bit) is difficult (the lcd color/contrast is poor and the detail always looks soft). I also shoot indoors quite a bit and prefer natural light to flash whenever possible and XSI images fall apart above ISO 400.

I want the very best picture quality and I want a camera that can handle the focusing performance requirement of moving kids ( I shoot candids of people as well).

I have pondered the 5D Mark II and as a former Nikon shooter I have also looked at the D700 considering both price points are fine. Staying crop I have also looked at the Nikon D7000 and the Canon 7D.

I would move back to Nikon, but my biggest concern is Nikon colors which I feel always looked a bit artificial (I just love Canon skin tones), on the other hand I like the dynamic range of Nikon's sensor which seems to be lacking on Canon sensors.

While I do shoot JPEG + RAW, I find myself using the XSI JPEGs 99% of the time because out of the camera they are a close match for the RAW files so I do perfer a body which can deliver a solid OOC JPEG.

Thoughts ?
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #2
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

No that I'm anyone in the photography business, but I shoot .jpg 99% of the time. I simply like the mentality of letting the camera do the work, and since I have dialed in the picture style, I usually don't have to post processs anymore except for maybe a final sharpening.

As for what camera to get from the XSI, well the 5d2 is a fine camera, and I'm sure you would enjoy owning one. It would probably fit what you shoot most of the time.
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #3
joeblack2022
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

How are you focusing exactly? Are you defining a focus point and what mode are you in?

What lens are you using with the XSi?
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #4
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

A 1Ds maybe....

Capturing a fast moving subject is dependent on shutter speed as well as technique, not so much which camera you have, the body you have is capable of good photo's, have you tried a 50mm F1.4 for low light?
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #5
watt100
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by watson76 View Post
Oh, what a pain in the ass gear can be. So I have an XSI and I love the output, but the screen sucks for checking focus, buffering is quite slow (shooting RAW + JPG) and focus is hit or miss.

I typically only take pictures of my twin girls who while only 10 months old move enough that nailing focus on the XSI requires burst shooting to hopefully get a sharp picture. Checking focus on the XSI lcd (which I do quite a bit) is difficult (the lcd color/contrast is poor and the detail always looks soft). I also shoot indoors quite a bit and prefer natural light to flash whenever possible and XSI images fall apart above ISO 400.

I want the very best picture quality and I want a camera that can handle the focusing performance requirement of moving kids ( I shoot candids of people as well).

I have pondered the 5D Mark II and as a former Nikon shooter I have also looked at the D700 considering both price points are fine. Staying crop I have also looked at the Nikon D7000 and the Canon 7D.

I would move back to Nikon, but my biggest concern is Nikon colors which I feel always looked a bit artificial (I just love Canon skin tones), on the other hand I like the dynamic range of Nikon's sensor which seems to be lacking on Canon sensors.

While I do shoot JPEG + RAW, I find myself using the XSI JPEGs 99% of the time because out of the camera they are a close match for the RAW files so I do perfer a body which can deliver a solid OOC JPEG.

Thoughts ?
jpeg may be a close match but you can do a lot more with the RAW file. and shooting RAW and jpeg will slow down the buffering.

Sounds like you are hankering for a full frame model and good large aperture lens but I will say something is wrong if your XSi images "fall apart" after ISO 400. I regular shoot at much higher ISO levels with the XSi (450D) and get what I think are good results.

e.g
XSi (450D)
ISO 1600
no noise reduction, pretty much SOOC but I shoot in RAW and sharpen with adjustments before converting to jpg



Last edited by watt100 : 24th of May 2012 (Thu) at 06:22.
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #6
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack2022 View Post
How are you focusing exactly? Are you defining a focus point and what mode are you in?

What lens are you using with the XSi?
I am using the 50 1.4. Focus is fast, just not accurate. If I shoot 10 or so frames in a row, typically 1 or 2 are keepers. I have rented other lenses (including L) and have had the same problem. I always use Center Point focus. Been shooting for quite a long time and used to do paid work, so I believe it's not user error, but hell it could be me.
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #7
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

Watt, higher ISO on the XSI isn't bad, but I did use a Nikon D5100 for a couple of days and was blown away by how good images were. I could shoot at ISO 6400 and images still retained detail, color and tonality. I didn't care for the 5100s white balance. Nikon's focusing was also accurate under the same conditions, but I still feel like there is a special look from Canon's sensors that I don't get from the Nikon. Nikon images 'feel' flat, whereas Canon images have a natural 3D look that is hard to describe.
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #8
joeblack2022
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

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Originally Posted by watson76 View Post
I am using the 50 1.4. Focus is fast, just not accurate.
There are reports of focusing issues with that lens, but you mentioned issues with L lenses as well...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/....php?t=1032353
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #9
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

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Originally Posted by FerozeK View Post
A 1Ds maybe....

Capturing a fast moving subject is dependent on shutter speed as well as technique, not so much which camera you have, the body you have is capable of good photo's, have you tried a 50mm F1.4 for low light?
I don't think I need a sports/wildlife camera to get the job done. Moving kids are always a challege. I think the problem is with the XSI focusing accuracy. Seems to back/front focus and shooting a 3 fps in burst corrects the problem as a little movement on my part puts the subject in focus (more or less luck). Focusing was my only gripe when moving from Nikon. I never had an OOF shot with my Nikon bodies that wasn't user error, that being said everything else about Canon is better.
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #10
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

What settings are you shooting with? Using center focus, what aperture, etc? Do you have an example you can post?
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #11
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

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Originally Posted by watson76 View Post
Watt, higher ISO on the XSI isn't bad, but I did use a Nikon D5100 for a couple of days and was blown away by how good images were. I could shoot at ISO 6400 and images still retained detail, color and tonality. I didn't care for the 5100s white balance. Nikon's focusing was also accurate under the same conditions, but I still feel like there is a special look from Canon's sensors that I don't get from the Nikon. Nikon images 'feel' flat, whereas Canon images have a natural 3D look that is hard to describe.
I belong to a local photo club and we shoot with the same subject with different cameras - Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. I've never been "blown away" by how good the Nikon images looked but if that's what you think then maybe going back to Nikon is for you. No doubt focusing on the 60D, 7D. etc. will be better than the XSi and undoubtedly full frame will look better with better lens. I don't shoot moving kids indoors but I shoot outdoor sports with the XSi and have no problems, except like you mentioned the limited FPS rate and buffer will slow down
good luck
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #12
watson76
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

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Originally Posted by watt100 View Post
I belong to a local photo club and we shoot with the same subject with different cameras - Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. I've never been "blown away" by how good the Nikon images looked but if that's what you think then maybe going back to Nikon is for you. No doubt focusing on the 60D, 7D. etc. will be better than the XSi and undoubtedly full frame will look better with better lens. I don't shoot moving kids indoors but I shoot outdoor sports with the XSi and have no problems, except like you mentioned the limited FPS rate and buffer will slow down
good luck
Watt, what lenses do you shoot with ? I don't think I could move back to Nikon, I find IQ, menus, buttons, design, better.
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #13
watt100
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

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Originally Posted by watson76 View Post
Watt, what lenses do you shoot with ? I don't think I could move back to Nikon, I find IQ, menus, buttons, design, better.
that pic above was with the Tamron 17-50 2.8 non-vc, I shoot sports with the Canon 100-400. But if I was shooting kids indoors I would use a bounced flash and a large aperture prime. All the models (550D, 60D, etc.) past the XSi have better usable ISO performance but if you want squeaky clean ISO 6400 no-noise reduction jpeg only pics you may not be satisfied with any of the Canon 1.6 crop models!
maybe a used 1d is in your future

Last edited by watt100 : 23rd of May 2012 (Wed) at 10:52.
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #14
FerozeK
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

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Originally Posted by watson76 View Post
I don't think I need a sports/wildlife camera to get the job done. Moving kids are always a challege. I think the problem is with the XSI focusing accuracy. Seems to back/front focus and shooting a 3 fps in burst corrects the problem as a little movement on my part puts the subject in focus (more or less luck). Focusing was my only gripe when moving from Nikon. I never had an OOF shot with my Nikon bodies that wasn't user error, that being said everything else about Canon is better.
There's other reasons for getting a good used 1d besides the speed, it might be an older model but the IQ is definitely still there. The focusing ability is well above the XSI so it might just do the trick. Before you jump onto a new body maybe rent or borrow a body and see if it helps.
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Old 23rd of May 2012 (Wed)   #15
David Arbogast
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Default Re: I'm going crazy, and can't decide ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by watson76 View Post
Oh, what a pain in the ass gear can be. So I have an XSI and I love the output, but the screen sucks for checking focus, buffering is quite slow (shooting RAW + JPG) and focus is hit or miss.

I typically only take pictures of my twin girls who while only 10 months old move enough that nailing focus on the XSI requires burst shooting to hopefully get a sharp picture. Checking focus on the XSI lcd (which I do quite a bit) is difficult (the lcd color/contrast is poor and the detail always looks soft). I also shoot indoors quite a bit and prefer natural light to flash whenever possible and XSI images fall apart above ISO 400.

I want the very best picture quality and I want a camera that can handle the focusing performance requirement of moving kids ( I shoot candids of people as well).

I have pondered the 5D Mark II and as a former Nikon shooter I have also looked at the D700 considering both price points are fine. Staying crop I have also looked at the Nikon D7000 and the Canon 7D.

I would move back to Nikon, but my biggest concern is Nikon colors which I feel always looked a bit artificial (I just love Canon skin tones), on the other hand I like the dynamic range of Nikon's sensor which seems to be lacking on Canon sensors.

While I do shoot JPEG + RAW, I find myself using the XSI JPEGs 99% of the time because out of the camera they are a close match for the RAW files so I do perfer a body which can deliver a solid OOC JPEG.

Thoughts ?
I'll second watt100's recommendation. I went from an xti to a 5D II and absolutely loved it. Was a huge difference-maker for me.

Regarding raw vs jpg I think you're reasoning isn't the best (imo) and I'm going to respond to that particularly because you mentioned an interest in having a better dynamic range. If you're just comparing jpeg to raw right out of the camera, the jpegs should actually have a better appearance because the camera is doing some significant processing for you (sharpening, contrast, saturation, etc.). I'm not keen on letting the camera automatically do the processing for me...I want total control, which is why I shoot 100% raw. And that's especially important if you're really concerned with dynamic range. An 8 bit jpeg file gives you no ability to recover blown highlights or clipped shadow details, but the 14 bit raw file often does.

But, I'm not trying to convince you to shoot only raw, just saying the desire for greater dynamic range is somewhat out of concert with a jpeg shooting style.
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