LOG IN    OR   REGISTER TO FORUMS


Is there a company that can print a raw file?

FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing
Thread started 27 May 2012 (Sunday) 19:29   
LIST NEARBY THREADS
 
tim
Light Bringer
tim's Avatar
Joined Nov 2004
49,507 posts
Wellington, New Zealand
[MORE/SHARE]

I'll check it out this evening and let you know what I find.

Post #31, May 28, 2012 21:00:55


NZIPP Qualified Professional wedding photographer.
Wellington Wedding Photographerexternal link ~ Camera and Lens Reviewsexternal link ~ Photographers Tech Supportexternal link
Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
jjj5278
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
jjj5278's Avatar
Joined Apr 2012
421 posts
Chicago
[MORE/SHARE]

Sent. No rush, thanks again!

Post #32, May 28, 2012 21:06:27


Gripped 60d/ Rokinon 15mm fisheye/ 8-16mm Sigma/ 17-55mm f/2.8/ 55-250mm IS/ 50mm 1.8/ 60mm Macro/ Kenko Extension Tubes/ Thinktank StreetWalker Pro
Looking to buy a 400mm f/5.6 L

LOG IN TO REPLY
tim
Light Bringer
tim's Avatar
Joined Nov 2004
49,507 posts
Wellington, New Zealand
[MORE/SHARE]

Right, I've had a look, and I'm confused. The image has sRgb embedded, but when I assign ProFoto RGB the colors really look much better. This makes me think the color profile is an issue, and right now it's my best guess.

When I develop from the RAW in ACR I can see the colors are a bit muted, but with saturation + 50 it looks like the original I received with ProFoto assigned. If develop as ProFoto in ACR/Photoshop the colors are a little more vivid, but not hugely.

Here's some outputs for people to ponder over, and the original raw file can be downloaded hereexternal link. John, please let me know ASAP if you'd like the images taken down.

Sorry for the size mismatches, getting absent minded.

IMAGE: http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/temp/fire1-orig.jpg

IMAGE: http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/temp/fire1-profoto.jpg

IMAGE: http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/temp/fire-acr-sRgb-defaults.jpg

IMAGE: http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/temp/fire-acr-sRgb-sat50.jpg

Post #33, May 29, 2012 00:42:50 as a reply to jjj5278's post 3 hours earlier.


NZIPP Qualified Professional wedding photographer.
Wellington Wedding Photographerexternal link ~ Camera and Lens Reviewsexternal link ~ Photographers Tech Supportexternal link
Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Mark ­ Vuleta
Goldmember
Mark Vuleta's Avatar
Joined Aug 2006
4,014 posts
Auckland NZ
[MORE/SHARE]

tim wrote in post #14498612external link
Right, I've had a look, and I'm confused. The image has sRgb embedded, but when I assign ProFoto RGB the colors really look much better. This makes me think the color profile is an issue, and right now it's my best guess.

Did John send you his JPEG originally??

I did a conversion in Bibble 5, DPP & CS5 and they all look more or less identical, certainly not dull or lacking in vibrancy.

I wonder if he has a corrupt sRGB ICC file in DPP??

Post #34, May 29, 2012 03:37:40




LOG IN TO REPLY
tim
Light Bringer
tim's Avatar
Joined Nov 2004
49,507 posts
Wellington, New Zealand
[MORE/SHARE]

Yes the first conversion is a resize of the jpeg he sent me.

Post #35, May 29, 2012 03:42:39


NZIPP Qualified Professional wedding photographer.
Wellington Wedding Photographerexternal link ~ Camera and Lens Reviewsexternal link ~ Photographers Tech Supportexternal link
Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
Mark ­ Vuleta
Goldmember
Mark Vuleta's Avatar
Joined Aug 2006
4,014 posts
Auckland NZ
[MORE/SHARE]

I wonder if it is worth John removing & then re-installing DPP to eliminate a possible corruption??

Post #36, May 29, 2012 03:44:48




LOG IN TO REPLY
Bob_A
Cream of the Crop
Bob_A's Avatar
Joined Jan 2005
8,108 posts
Alberta, Canada
[MORE/SHARE]

Here is what I get using ACR and the "Camera Standard" profile, saving as an sRGB jpeg and adding sharpening in PS (300, 0.3, 0). No other adjustment.

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
http://bobanderson.smu​gmug.com ...GqhLS/0/XL/IMG3709-XL.jpgexternal link
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

Post #37, May 29, 2012 08:21:14


Bob
SmugMugexternal link | My Gear Ratings | My POTN Gallery

LOG IN TO REPLY
René ­ Damkot
Cream of the Crop
René Damkot's Avatar
Joined Feb 2005
39,854 posts
enschede, netherlands
[MORE/SHARE]

tim wrote in post #14498612external link
Right, I've had a look, and I'm confused. The image has sRgb embedded, but when I assign ProFoto RGB the colors really look much better. This makes me think the color profile is an issue, and right now it's my best guess.

Well, if the OP used DPP, there's no way the image can have ProPhotoRGB embedded. DPP only uses sRGB, AdobeRGB and WideGamutRGB.

Gave it a quick try. This is the image straight out of DPP, no adjustments, sRGB embedded.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos.

This is a screenshot of the Raw vs converted jpgs in DPP. There's a definite saturation loss. (Visible in the jpgs, and converted files). You'll need a color managed browser to view it correctly though; the screenshot has my monitor profile embedded)

IMAGE: https://img.skitch.com/20120529-nd1rcq6dwtyqq7khnfja4d4jt5.preview.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://skitch.com ...ne-downloads-img-3709.cr2]external linkClick for large viewexternal link

Since I'm on a wide gamut screen, I tried converting to WideGamutRGB. No difference: Saturation loss compared to the RAW. Not that big of a difference between sRGB and WideGamutRGB jpgs, saturation wise: All appear to be about within sRGB gamut.

I also opened the converted images in PSCS6 to compare.

All jpgs appear to have a bit more black clipping in DPP. (Never noticed that before)
All jpgs have about the same saturation in DPP vs. PS (hard to tell since the blacks also change): Way less then the CR2 in DPP.

For giggles, I opened the CR2 in DPP, maxed out the saturation slider. The image does get more saturated, both CR2 and resulting jpg. They still do not match each other. I also tried different Picture Styles, and "transfer to Photoshop" instead of "Process and Save".

IMO, this is a bug in DPP.



Edit: But not a color management one, but terrible resizing and a bad sharpening/NR preview ;)

Tried DPP 3.11.26 and 3.11.1 on OSX 10.6.8

Side note:
The sRGB jpg has less black clipping in PS then jpgs in any other color space (very old DPP issue, definite bug IMO, and you can actually see this happening when you switch workspace in DPP: Adjustment > Work Color Space. This also affects jpg files viewed in DPP, which should not be happening, and is the reason I avoid sRGB in DPP.)

Post #38, May 29, 2012 08:23:18


"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams
Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.
MySpaceexternal link
Get Colormanagedexternal link
Twitterexternal link
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.

LOG IN TO REPLY
jjj5278
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
jjj5278's Avatar
Joined Apr 2012
421 posts
Chicago
[MORE/SHARE]

Well, at least it wasn't just me or my eyes. So should I just splurge and buy some other photo processing software? I never bought one b/c I didn't think I'd really need it, b/c I don't do any post processing other than some cropping. Thanks for the help everyone, it sucks that the images look so much better as the raw. I was kind of impressed w/ my first attempts at fireworks photography, haha.

Post #39, May 29, 2012 12:17:52


Gripped 60d/ Rokinon 15mm fisheye/ 8-16mm Sigma/ 17-55mm f/2.8/ 55-250mm IS/ 50mm 1.8/ 60mm Macro/ Kenko Extension Tubes/ Thinktank StreetWalker Pro
Looking to buy a 400mm f/5.6 L

LOG IN TO REPLY
tonylong
do I really have to respond?
tonylong's Avatar
Joined Sep 2007
53,001 posts
Vancouver, WA USA
[MORE/SHARE]

jjj5278 wrote in post #14500693external link
Well, at least it wasn't just me or my eyes. So should I just splurge and buy some other photo processing software? I never bought one b/c I didn't think I'd really need it, b/c I don't do any post processing other than some cropping. Thanks for the help everyone, it sucks that the images look so much better as the raw. I was kind of impressed w/ my first attempts at fireworks photography, haha.

Heh! Most of the "serious" photogs here use something like Lightroom, Photoshop with Camera Raw, Aperture, or another more "advanced" Raw processor, but it's really up to you -- you can "tweak" your DPP settings knowing its shortcomings, or you can take on another Raw app!

Post #40, May 29, 2012 12:47:44


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBaseexternal link
Wildlife project pics hereexternal link, Biking Photog shoots hereexternal link, "Suburbia" project hereexternal link! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics hereexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
René ­ Damkot
Cream of the Crop
René Damkot's Avatar
Joined Feb 2005
39,854 posts
enschede, netherlands
[MORE/SHARE]

Might also be a problem with the color profiles used for the camera.

However, I don't think so. I think it's more related to sharpening/NR.

While I don't have a fireworks shot, I've tested some colorful images from my 1D3, and in those I think they look the same between CR2 and jpg.
Measuring the two screenshots in PS, I found that in some colors, either G or B values changed 1 unit. I might have seen a slight change in a yellow patch, but I doubt I can reliably tell a change of 1 unit, even on a wide gamut screen ;)

IMAGE: https://img.skitch.com/20120529-t32aw5c1bgubp8y4p31x3dytjd.preview.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://skitch.com/ren​edamkot/87eps/cloud]external linkClick for large viewexternal link

An older 1D2 file did show some more differences, but that turned out to be the noise on a higher ISO shot changing quite a bit, certainly at anything else then 100% view. No idea why, but that difference was visible at 100% view. Color changes again within 1 R, G or B unit. The jpg looked a bit warmer however.

You might be able to see the line in this screenshot, mainly because the changed noise character (less "blobs" in the jpg).

IMAGE: https://img.skitch.com/20120529-84h86t7pgbd4ppg242ynq6kxqj.preview.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://skitch.com/ren​edamkot/87eqj/cloud]external linkClick for large viewexternal link

This did make me go look at your shot.

When viewed at 100%, the only things that had less saturation were the small lightbulbs and fireworks trials.

The (terrible) resizing for screen, done by DPP makes the images look very different, mainly sharpness wise, while they aren't. It appears that the CR2 preview for fine details (fireworks trials or noise) simply isn't very accurate. Only: with noise it gives you better noise in the resulting file, which nobody notices, and in this case, it lowers saturation, which is very obvious and unwanted. Might be some sort of NR going on which cannot be disabled.

Side note, if you want more saturation left in the firework trials, you could try to lower the sharpening. The high amount and fineness kill color in blue and yellow respectively (zoom in to 100% as you should when sharpening, and give it a try)

Image at 100%, your settings for everything, except AdobeRGB was used as output color space.
Note the thumbs still appear very different. When comparing the two screenshots in PS I could visibly see mainly the yellow trail and lightblobs change: Sometimes up to 20 or 30B values between screenshot of the CR2 and jpg.

The big red blobs in the lower right (waterfall?) however, and also other larger structures (buildings), are as consistent as they should be between CR2 and jpg: about 1R, G or B unit that changes.
However it's harder to see in a split screen…

IMAGE: https://img.skitch.com/20120529-jtnumss9wtxyuk2q4r1tsq2fuy.preview.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://skitch.com/ren​edamkot/87epd/cloud]external linkClick for large viewexternal link

Conclusive: For sharpening: view at 100%. We knew that.
Appears that for fireworks shots, it's also best to use another raw converter then DPP.

But, I think it's more of a "bad sharpening/NR preview" issue then a color management one.

Post #41, May 29, 2012 13:53:41


"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams
Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.
MySpaceexternal link
Get Colormanagedexternal link
Twitterexternal link
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
jjj5278
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
jjj5278's Avatar
Joined Apr 2012
421 posts
Chicago
[MORE/SHARE]

Ugh, so forgive my lack of technical understanding but from all the reading and comparisons I am guessing I should use other software for fireworks photos at least. If I try sharpening it still doesn't quite capture the colors of the fireworks. I have not noticed any other photos suffering from color loss except these ones.

Oh and yes the red blobs on the lower right are waterfalls. (American Falls at Niagara Falls)

Post #42, May 30, 2012 11:11:56


Gripped 60d/ Rokinon 15mm fisheye/ 8-16mm Sigma/ 17-55mm f/2.8/ 55-250mm IS/ 50mm 1.8/ 60mm Macro/ Kenko Extension Tubes/ Thinktank StreetWalker Pro
Looking to buy a 400mm f/5.6 L

LOG IN TO REPLY
René ­ Damkot
Cream of the Crop
René Damkot's Avatar
Joined Feb 2005
39,854 posts
enschede, netherlands
[MORE/SHARE]

jjj5278 wrote in post #14506032external link
I am guessing I should use other software for fireworks photos at least.

Yes. Either that, or accept the DPP preview is inaccurate WRT sharpening / NR, which causes saturation loss in small, colorful details, and try to compensate by "over saturating" the CR2 before exporting… But that's a bit of a guessing game, and will also over saturate larger colored parts of the image… :eek:

Post #43, May 30, 2012 11:16:12


"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams
Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.
MySpaceexternal link
Get Colormanagedexternal link
Twitterexternal link
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.

LOG IN TO REPLY
jjj5278
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
jjj5278's Avatar
Joined Apr 2012
421 posts
Chicago
[MORE/SHARE]

Ugh, bummer....well at least I have the raw files so when I do find another program I can convert them w/o the loss of color. Again, I'm just glad it wasn't me and something stupid I was doing, haha.

Post #44, May 30, 2012 13:43:55


Gripped 60d/ Rokinon 15mm fisheye/ 8-16mm Sigma/ 17-55mm f/2.8/ 55-250mm IS/ 50mm 1.8/ 60mm Macro/ Kenko Extension Tubes/ Thinktank StreetWalker Pro
Looking to buy a 400mm f/5.6 L

LOG IN TO REPLY
tim
Light Bringer
tim's Avatar
Joined Nov 2004
49,507 posts
Wellington, New Zealand
[MORE/SHARE]

Don't worry I don't really understand it either, not fully.

Post #45, May 30, 2012 14:40:09


NZIPP Qualified Professional wedding photographer.
Wellington Wedding Photographerexternal link ~ Camera and Lens Reviewsexternal link ~ Photographers Tech Supportexternal link
Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

LOG IN TO REPLY


LIST NEARBY THREADS
2,057 views & 0 likes for this thread
Is there a company that can print a raw file?
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing



NOT A MEMBER YET? CLICK HERE TO REGISTER TO FORUMS

CHANGE BODY TEXT SIZE FOR ALL THREAD PAGES
POWERED BY AMASS 1.0version 1.0
made in Finland
by Pekka Saarinen
for photography-on-the.net


SEND FEEDBACK TO STAFF  |  JUMP TO FORUM...  |  FORUM RULES


Spent 0.00202 for 4 database queries.
PAGE COMPLETED IN 0.04s
710 guests, 498 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 3341, that happened on Dec 11, 2014
Latest registered member is Fairy Isabella

COOKIES DISCLAIMER: By using this site you agree that some cookies will be stored on your browser. For unlogged users we store one session id cookie. For registered members we store (in addition to login session cookie) only cookies that are essential for required functionality, we do not store any personal tracking data in cookies or other browser's data storage methods.