If The Quadra is Going Lithium...

[maxblack]

Will the Ranger be going lithium also sometime soon?

I'm debating getting a Ranger 1100w/s flash but I'm wondering if Elinchrom will be adding/changing to a lithium battery pack in the future?
See, I own two 600RX's and want a third light. I want to use this third light on location, outdoors. Would I be better suited getting another 600RX and an
Innovatronix battery, or maybe a VML battery or get a Ranger.
The 600RX and battery "would" save a lot of money over the Ranger but I have the funds for the Ranger right now. Always wanted one of those bad boys. So help me think with my head and not my heart. What would you do?
Just looking for a little feedback. Thanks in advance for any opinions!

[Darkwand]

I usae an Explorer XT SE for my RX 1200 and two D-lites it 2/4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFmDfyeq0y0

[windpig]

I'll be getting a Quadra set with the lithium battery when it is available. I've got two Ranger RX Speed AS pacs with 3 lights. I don't see as much of an upside for the Ranger RX Speed batteries being lithium. Although the weight would go down, I would never consider them a light weight option anyway. With the Quadra you are going from a fairly light weight to an ultra light weight set up, along with more pops.

[RichNY]

Buy a Quadra and a battery for your 600RX rather than a Ranger RX.

Unless you need the full 1100ws of the Ranger the Quadra will be much lighter and more enjoyable to carry around. For those times when you are shooting at noon and fighting the sun you take a 600RX and the battery.

[alyson]

Originally Posted by windpig

I'll be getting a Quadra set with the lithium battery when it is available.

I think Quadra in Li Ion batteries are already available but at a premium compared to the SLA powered, of course.
And IMHO, I doubt if Elinchrom will have a Li battery powered ranger, anytime soon.

[alyson]

Originally Posted by BerthaBiatch

Weight down AND faster recycling, AND more pops.



Where?

This link.

It's in UK though.

[K.C.]

That's a link for pre-order. They have been claiming availability in June, which could still happen.

I think the innovation we'll see next from Elinchrom is more features in the Quadra. The iPhone app for the Quadra is a good indication of what I'm referring to. The Ranger series are already much more controllable packs and have a very successful market segment. While they may enjoy some new battery technology I think there are other priorities for Elinchrom.

FWIW, I just returned a Tronix Mini because it interfered with built in Pocket Wizards in my Profoto packs, shutting them off. There's a thread on this board with another user having the same issue with Dynalite packs with built in PWs while using one of the larger Tronix batteries. While you may not be considering using PWs,it says something about their converters not supplying full current at initial demand for it when a flash is just starting to recycle.

[pwm2]

Just remember that the higher energy density (lower weight) of Li-Ion batteries comes together with significant ageing. The Li-Ion batteries starts to age directly from factory - speed of decay to a large part depending on storage temperature.

So 3 years later, there will be significantly less juice in the batteries. Most people wear out (or grow tired of) their mobile phones before the batteries runs out. But this is equipment that is expected to last, so multiple battery replacements may need to be planned for. Especially for people who need to use/store the equipment in high temperatures.

[K.C.]

Originally Posted by pwm2

Just remember that the higher energy density (lower weight) of Li-Ion batteries comes together with significant ageing. The Li-Ion batteries starts to age directly from factory - speed of decay to a large part depending on storage temperature.

So 3 years later, there will be significantly less juice in the batteries. Most people wear out (or grow tired of) their mobile phones before the batteries runs out. But this is equipment that is expected to last, so multiple battery replacements may need to be planned for. Especially for people who need to use/store the equipment in high temperatures.

Very important information to mention.

The quality of the Li-Ion battery largely determines this aging and can be directly correlated to the cost initially and over time as you replace the battery.

All those PCB Vagabond Minis have about a year of life before they loose significant capacity. A salient point that's been removed from the critical review of the product on more than one major blog.

It's also the reason that Elinchrom has taken some time to bring their first LI battery to market. They're producing a very high quality battery that will enjoy long life.

[windpig]

Good points on the longevity of the lithium battery, I wasn't aware of that. I may get a standard kit and add a lithium battery in the future.

Thanks for the info guys!

[alyson]

Originally Posted by K.C.

It's also the reason that Elinchrom has taken some time to bring their first LI battery to market. They're producing a very high quality battery that will enjoy long life.

Yes, in addition to that (battery life), or I may have read somewhere on the safety of charging these Li ion batteries.

[pwm2]

Originally Posted by alyson

Yes, in addition to that (battery life), or I may have read somewhere on the safety of charging these Li ion batteries.

They are pretty safe to charge if:
- not charged if discharged too far.
- not charged to a too high voltage.
- reduction in charge speed for the last part of the charge.

Most manufacturers of Li-Ion cells don't want to sell separate cells - just solutions that have an integrated control chip. Just to make sure unskilled people makes complete batteries without the required supervision logic and then uses a charger that is a bit too optimistic about how fast to charge - or who doesn't refuse to charge a too empty battery.

[K.C.]

Originally Posted by alyson

Yes, in addition to that (battery life), or I may have read somewhere on the safety of charging these Li ion batteries.

You may have read ?

[K.C.]

Originally Posted by pwm2

They are pretty safe to charge if:
- not charged if discharged too far.
- not charged to a too high voltage.
- reduction in charge speed for the last part of the charge.

Most manufacturers of Li-Ion cells don't want to sell separate cells - just solutions that have an integrated control chip. Just to make sure unskilled people makes complete batteries without the required supervision logic and then uses a charger that is a bit too optimistic about how fast to charge - or who doesn't refuse to charge a too empty battery.

So to sum it up, don't be an idiot and try to charge your very expensive LI battery with the wrong charger and everything will be fine.

Good advice.

[pwm2]

Originally Posted by K.C.

So to sum it up, don't be an idiot and try to charge your very expensive LI battery with the wrong charger and everything will be fine.

Good advice.

Now and then, real good companies (maybe even in direct association with the battery vendors) do push the envelope a bit too high. Then we see these very expensive recalls of batteries. It has happened to just about every big supplier of electronics - companies with the best design departments.

So in the end, the "correct" charger with the expensive original battery could still be a combination that results in big issues - something we buyers often will not know about until a couple of years later.

Today, at least some manufacturers have at least learned that they should slightly downplay the capacity of the batteries or the charging time of the batteries. So maybe specify charging time to 90% of the capacity. Then go very slow the last part. Or specify that the battery is full (indicate 100%) when the battery reaches 90%. And then show "bonus" capacity when the charger then continues at a lowered speed. A Sony video camera I have does that - the charge time claimed is up to 100%. Continue to charge for 1-2 hours more, it reaches somewhere 108-110%.

The big problem is that we customers wants to see nice figures. We want to see a huge capacity (Wh or Ah) and we want to see fast charge times. And the batteries have production variation. So what works with the best batteries may be over the limit for the 1-5% least good batteries. And this variation may not be visible directly at factory but may show up first with one or more years of use.

The good thing is that the battery manufacturers learns as time progresses so they can supply better and better information to the electronics designers. So hopefully, we should get fewer and fewer products that do ship with batteries/chargers that may be running too close to the safe envelope.