Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Motorsports Talk 
Thread started 15 Jul 2012 (Sunday) 07:17
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Do non-photographers not value difficult shots?

 
Zweihaender
Member
108 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 105
Joined Dec 2011
     
Jul 15, 2012 07:17 |  #1

Until yesterday I have never shot Motorsports before, but I always wanted to try some panning shots. So I went to a local bike event to give it a try. As it turned out, panning shots are not that easy with a heavy lens. I did some, but I could already see on the LCD most of them were not good. That's why I decided to shoot wide open.

I showed some of my photos four non-photographers (regular people) this morning and asked them if they can see a difference (panning/non-panning) and which they like more. It turned out, all four of them prefer the photos with the short shutter speeds, where the wheels are frozen.

So I wonder: Why do panning shots at all, if your potential customers (I don't work for money) prefer photos with short shutter speeds? A photographer or a magazine won't agree, but I'm talking about the drivers who don't know anything about photography.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

5D3, 300mm, f11.0, 1/50, ISO 100

IMAGE: http://www10.pic-upload.de/15.07.12/olwzm43y3g3t.jpg
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

5D3, 300mm, f2.8, 1/5000 & 1/4000, ISO 200

IMAGE: http://www10.pic-upload.de/15.07.12/ytc6fs7d9zv.jpg
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

5D3, 300mm, f10.0, 1/60, ISO 100
5D3, 300mm, f8.0, 1/80, ISO 200

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

5D3, 300mm, f2.8, 1/1600 & 1/2000, ISO 200


I cant't edit the typo in the title/header. :-( Would be nice if a moderator edits it.



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
windpig
Chopped liver
Avatar
14,655 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 1014
Joined Dec 2008
Location: Just South of Ballard
     
Jul 15, 2012 07:21 |  #2

Why do people drink Lite beer.


Would you like to buy a vowel?
Go ahead, spin the wheel.
flickr (external link)
I'm accross the canal just south of Ballard, the town Seattle usurped in 1907.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,039 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jul 15, 2012 07:22 |  #3

Your frozen action shots have other things showing the dynamics of action that even to me are more preferable than a standard panning shot. Flying mud and water for example. You've also captured the frozen action at more pleasing angles than you did the pans.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
joedlh
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,233 posts
Gallery: 31 photos
Likes: 379
Joined Dec 2007
Location: Long Island, NY, N. America, Sol III, Orion Spur, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Cluster, Laniakea.
     
Jul 15, 2012 07:23 |  #4

To convey the sense of speed, motion blur is appropriate. But as you have seen, it's not easy. If you showed your shots to a driver, I think they'd like the blurred shots better as it better conveys the sense of the activity. An untrained eye will focus on features that are not necessarily essential to what you're trying to convey. Buy a motorcross magazine and see what kinds of images they favor.


Joe
Gear: Kodak Instamatic, Polaroid Swinger. Oh you meant gear now. :rolleyes:
http://photo.joedlh.ne​t (external link)
Editing ok

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mark1
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,725 posts
Likes: 6
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Maryland
     
Jul 15, 2012 09:44 |  #5

Not only Non-photographers, other photographers dont care either. Technique and effort does not sell a photograph. They just dont. How compelling is the photograph is what will make it sell. Spinning wheels or not.


www.darkslisemag.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdiver2
Goldmember
Avatar
1,031 posts
Likes: 67
Joined Feb 2012
Location: Safety Harbor Fl
     
Jul 15, 2012 10:43 |  #6

I have to agree with this.

Your frozen action shots have other things showing the dynamics of action that even to me are more preferable than a standard panning shot. Flying mud and water for example. You've also captured the frozen action at more pleasing angles than you did the pans

.

Now if you could get the blur of movement and mud/water flying everywhere I think they would sell




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Rob ­ Stewart
Member
Avatar
31 posts
Joined Feb 2009
Location: Nr Cambridge, UK
     
Jul 15, 2012 13:58 |  #7

cdifoto hit the nail on the head above. When you are photographing motox or rallying it's easier to get a sense of speed and excitement using a faster shutter speed because of all the cr*p flying about, mud, water, snow etc all show that the vehicle is moving at a pace. Try the same shutter speed on a sunny day at Silverstone however and you'll end up with a tedious shot of a car seemingly standing still on the track (except head on or going away).

Motion blur and spinning wheels are only two of several ways of getting some interest in your subject and conveying what you saw when you observed the subject. They are not the be all and end all of motorsport photography, just a couple of 'tools' you can use in some situations.

Regards,

Rob.


Rob Stewart.
www.StewartRACINGIMAGES.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MidnightUK
Member
152 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Feb 2012
Location: UK / GB
     
Jul 15, 2012 16:52 |  #8

I thought there were some good shots there.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jim ­ M
Goldmember
1,649 posts
Likes: 25
Joined Aug 2006
     
Jul 30, 2012 20:05 |  #9

I shoot drag racing, but I almost never sell a panning shot. I sold one once that I recall. They like the exploding power at the starting line. I think road racers and oval track folks are most into panning.

One of the things I remember from my earliest days in photography is that the only person that cares how hard the shot was to get is you. Your client or editor doesn't care at all. They only assess the value the finished product has to them. This is why I think photographers shouldn't edit their own work. We know how hard a shot was to get and give it extra points for degree of difficulty, so to speak. A dispassionate outsider will do a better job of editing.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lifeburn
Member
Avatar
57 posts
Joined May 2012
Location: North Carolina
     
Aug 10, 2012 02:53 |  #10

It comes down to taste. Personally I like the frozen shots better, most panning shots are hard for me to stare at for more than five seconds.


Canon 7D | Canon T3i | Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 | Canon 50mm 1.8 | Canon 75-300mm f4/5.6 | Sigma 500 DG Super speedlite

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ltdave
Goldmember
2,517 posts
Gallery: 20 photos
Likes: 439
Joined Apr 2012
Location: the farthest point east in michigan
     
Aug 10, 2012 05:12 as a reply to  @ Lifeburn's post |  #11

Maybe, most non-photographers shoot pics that have some sort of "blurring" whether it be a good pan shot or just insufficient shutterspeed so they are used to that look...

Then, BAM! here you come with a shot made at a shutterspeed of say 1/800 (which their camera is incapable of achieving, let alone them knowing what short SS would do) so they say, "you're a GREAT photographer! "




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bosscat
Goldmember
1,892 posts
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Ontario Canada
     
Aug 11, 2012 16:23 |  #12

I've seen people at dirt tracks wet their pants over a high shutter speed shot of a car that looks like it is parked under a red flag, where you could tell every person sitting in the stands, and those same people will dismiss a pan shot that rips your eyes out with colour and blur.

I think they love the word "HOOSIER" on the tires......LOL


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TSchrief
Goldmember
Avatar
2,099 posts
Joined Aug 2012
Location: Bourbon, Indiana
     
Aug 12, 2012 10:51 |  #13
bannedPermanent ban

Personally, I like the panning shots better. Frozen spokes on an obviously moving motorcycle are as weird as a frozen propeller on a flying airplane. That said, there is an appeal in a photograph of something you can't see with your eyes, frozen spokes and propellers. Or a bullet going through and apple. Try shooting that at 1/50s. Shoot both, sell what the customer wants.


Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dorafan
Hatchling
Avatar
9 posts
Joined Aug 2012
     
Aug 25, 2012 00:29 |  #14

It is a little unfair act like non-photographers are somehow beneath photographers and have bad taste when it comes to "difficult shots". A difficult shot isn't always the best shot. To assume that a shot is somehow automatically better, just because it was harder to take, is silly. I personally also like the "frozen" wheel shots. They are more exciting to me.


Play Dora Games (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Gadget-Guy
Senior Member
Avatar
711 posts
Likes: 407
Joined Jun 2005
Location: Wolverton,Bucks.UK
     
Aug 26, 2012 19:55 |  #15

Different forms of motorsport suit different styles of shooting,mx and freestyle look better frozen or with slight wheel blur as its more about the body language of the rider.Circuit bikes work different with frozen head on pics or slight angle being frozen but pans work great to show speed.
Cars are a complete different subject than bikes and also benefit from the above general rule depending on circuit or dirt etc.
Most people look at a picture and as long as its sharp thats all they care about where as a magazine or editor will look for a picture that conveys the best capture for the story and shows the action or style of sport and rider.
If your selling at an event to mums and dads or riders as long as its sharp they dont care in all honesty but to a magazine etc you need to combine all of the above and more.


The equipment you'll leave at home will be the equipment you'll need the most!
Murphy's Law

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

4,505 views & 0 likes for this thread
Do non-photographers not value difficult shots?
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Motorsports Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is johnowens
659 guests, 332 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.