Index  •   • New Posts  •   • RTAT  •   • "Best Of"  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
New Posts  •   • RTAT  •   • "Best Of"  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Motorsports Talk
Thread started 15 Jul 2012 (Sunday) 07:17
PREV/NEXT

Do non-photographers not value difficult shots?

 
Zweihaender
Member
79 posts
Joined Dec 2011
MORE INFO

Until yesterday I have never shot Motorsports before, but I always wanted to try some panning shots. So I went to a local bike event to give it a try. As it turned out, panning shots are not that easy with a heavy lens. I did some, but I could already see on the LCD most of them were not good. That's why I decided to shoot wide open.

I showed some of my photos four non-photographers (regular people) this morning and asked them if they can see a difference (panning/non-panning) and which they like more. It turned out, all four of them prefer the photos with the short shutter speeds, where the wheels are frozen.

So I wonder: Why do panning shots at all, if your potential customers (I don't work for money) prefer photos with short shutter speeds? A photographer or a magazine won't agree, but I'm talking about the drivers who don't know anything about photography.

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

5D3, 300mm, f11.0, 1/50, ISO 100

IMAGE: http://www10.pic-upload.de/15.07.12/olwzm43y3g3t.jpg
IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

5D3, 300mm, f2.8, 1/5000 & 1/4000, ISO 200

IMAGE: http://www10.pic-upload.de/15.07.12/ytc6fs7d9zv.jpg
IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

5D3, 300mm, f10.0, 1/60, ISO 100
5D3, 300mm, f8.0, 1/80, ISO 200

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: data

5D3, 300mm, f2.8, 1/1600 & 1/2000, ISO 200


I cant't edit the typo in the title/header. :-( Would be nice if a moderator edits it.

Jul 15, 2012 07:17



LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
windpig
Chopped liver
windpig's Avatar
12,191 posts

Joined Dec 2008

Just South of Ballard
MORE INFO

Why do people drink Lite beer.

Jul 15, 2012 07:21

Would you like to buy a vowel?
Go ahead, spin the wheel.

LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
cdifoto's Avatar
34,036 posts

Joined Dec 2005
MORE INFO

Your frozen action shots have other things showing the dynamics of action that even to me are more preferable than a standard panning shot. Flying mud and water for example. You've also captured the frozen action at more pleasing angles than you did the pans.

Jul 15, 2012 07:22

Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it hereexternal link. Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid!external link

LOG IN TO REPLY
joedlh
Goldmember
joedlh's Avatar
4,640 posts

Joined Dec 2007

Long Island, NY, North America, Sol III, Orion Spur of the Milky Way galaxy.
MORE INFO

To convey the sense of speed, motion blur is appropriate. But as you have seen, it's not easy. If you showed your shots to a driver, I think they'd like the blurred shots better as it better conveys the sense of the activity. An untrained eye will focus on features that are not necessarily essential to what you're trying to convey. Buy a motorcross magazine and see what kinds of images they favor.

Jul 15, 2012 07:23

Joe
Gear: Kodak Instamatic, Polaroid Swinger. Oh you meant gear now. :rolleyes:
http://photo.joedlh.ne​texternal link
Editing ok

LOG IN TO REPLY
Mark1
Cream of the Crop
Mark1's Avatar
6,725 posts

Joined Feb 2008

Maryland
MORE INFO

Not only Non-photographers, other photographers dont care either. Technique and effort does not sell a photograph. They just dont. How compelling is the photograph is what will make it sell. Spinning wheels or not.

Jul 15, 2012 09:44

I started a new showcase site for photographers and models. E-Mag coming soon! Please considder submitting!www.thelatentpixel.comexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
cdiver2
Senior Member
cdiver2's Avatar
954 posts

Joined Feb 2012

Safety Harbor Fl
MORE INFO

I have to agree with this.

Your frozen action shots have other things showing the dynamics of action that even to me are more preferable than a standard panning shot. Flying mud and water for example. You've also captured the frozen action at more pleasing angles than you did the pans

.

Now if you could get the blur of movement and mud/water flying everywhere I think they would sell

Jul 15, 2012 10:43



LOG IN TO REPLY
Rob ­ Stewart
Member
Rob Stewart's Avatar
31 posts

Joined Feb 2009

Nr Cambridge, UK
MORE INFO

cdifoto hit the nail on the head above. When you are photographing motox or rallying it's easier to get a sense of speed and excitement using a faster shutter speed because of all the cr*p flying about, mud, water, snow etc all show that the vehicle is moving at a pace. Try the same shutter speed on a sunny day at Silverstone however and you'll end up with a tedious shot of a car seemingly standing still on the track (except head on or going away).

Motion blur and spinning wheels are only two of several ways of getting some interest in your subject and conveying what you saw when you observed the subject. They are not the be all and end all of motorsport photography, just a couple of 'tools' you can use in some situations.

Regards,

Rob.

Jul 15, 2012 13:58

Rob Stewart.
www.StewartRACINGIMAGES.comexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
MidnightUK
Member
144 posts
Joined Feb 2012

UK / GB
MORE INFO

I thought there were some good shots there.

Jul 15, 2012 16:52



LOG IN TO REPLY
Jim ­ M
Goldmember
1,640 posts
Joined Aug 2006
MORE INFO

I shoot drag racing, but I almost never sell a panning shot. I sold one once that I recall. They like the exploding power at the starting line. I think road racers and oval track folks are most into panning.

One of the things I remember from my earliest days in photography is that the only person that cares how hard the shot was to get is you. Your client or editor doesn't care at all. They only assess the value the finished product has to them. This is why I think photographers shouldn't edit their own work. We know how hard a shot was to get and give it extra points for degree of difficulty, so to speak. A dispassionate outsider will do a better job of editing.

Jul 30, 2012 20:05



LOG IN TO REPLY
Lifeburn
Member
Lifeburn's Avatar
57 posts

Joined May 2012

North Carolina
MORE INFO

It comes down to taste. Personally I like the frozen shots better, most panning shots are hard for me to stare at for more than five seconds.

Aug 10, 2012 02:53

Canon 7D | Canon T3i | Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 | Canon 50mm 1.8 | Canon 75-300mm f4/5.6 | Sigma 500 DG Super speedlite

LOG IN TO REPLY
Ltdave
Goldmember
1,695 posts
Joined Apr 2012

the farthest point east in michigan
MORE INFO

Maybe, most non-photographers shoot pics that have some sort of "blurring" whether it be a good pan shot or just insufficient shutterspeed so they are used to that look...

Then, BAM! here you come with a shot made at a shutterspeed of say 1/800 (which their camera is incapable of achieving, let alone them knowing what short SS would do) so they say, "you're a GREAT photographer! "

Aug 10, 2012 05:12 as a reply to Lifeburn's post 2 hours earlier.



LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
Bosscat
Goldmember
1,892 posts
Joined Apr 2005

Ontario Canada
MORE INFO

I've seen people at dirt tracks wet their pants over a high shutter speed shot of a car that looks like it is parked under a red flag, where you could tell every person sitting in the stands, and those same people will dismiss a pan shot that rips your eyes out with colour and blur.

I think they love the word "HOOSIER" on the tires......LOL

Aug 11, 2012 16:23

Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

LOG IN TO REPLY
TSchrief
Goldmember
TSchrief's Avatar
2,099 posts

Joined Aug 2012

Bourbon, Indiana
MORE INFO
banned

Personally, I like the panning shots better. Frozen spokes on an obviously moving motorcycle are as weird as a frozen propeller on a flying airplane. That said, there is an appeal in a photograph of something you can't see with your eyes, frozen spokes and propellers. Or a bullet going through and apple. Try shooting that at 1/50s. Shoot both, sell what the customer wants.

Aug 12, 2012 10:51

Gear List

LOG IN TO REPLY
Dorafan
Hatchling
Dorafan's Avatar
9 posts

Joined Aug 2012
MORE INFO

It is a little unfair act like non-photographers are somehow beneath photographers and have bad taste when it comes to "difficult shots". A difficult shot isn't always the best shot. To assume that a shot is somehow automatically better, just because it was harder to take, is silly. I personally also like the "frozen" wheel shots. They are more exciting to me.

Aug 25, 2012 00:29

Play Dora Gamesexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
Gadget-Guy
Senior Member
Gadget-Guy's Avatar
605 posts

Joined Jun 2005

Wolverton,Bucks.UK
MORE INFO

Different forms of motorsport suit different styles of shooting,mx and freestyle look better frozen or with slight wheel blur as its more about the body language of the rider.Circuit bikes work different with frozen head on pics or slight angle being frozen but pans work great to show speed.
Cars are a complete different subject than bikes and also benefit from the above general rule depending on circuit or dirt etc.
Most people look at a picture and as long as its sharp thats all they care about where as a magazine or editor will look for a picture that conveys the best capture for the story and shows the action or style of sport and rider.
If your selling at an event to mums and dads or riders as long as its sharp they dont care in all honesty but to a magazine etc you need to combine all of the above and more.

Aug 26, 2012 19:55

The equipment you'll leave at home will be the equipment you'll need the most!
Murphy's Law

LOG IN TO REPLY

2,805 views & 0 likes for this thread
Do non-photographers not value difficult shots?
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Motorsports Talk

NOT A MEMBER YET? CLICK HERE TO REGISTER TO THE FORUMS
Registered members get all the features: search, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, own reviews...




SEND FEEDBACK TO STAFF    •   JUMP TO FORUM    •   FORUM RULES    •   Index    •   New Posts    •   RTAT    •   "Best Of"    •   Gallery    •   Gear    •   Reviews    •   Polls

COOKIES DISCLAIMER: By using this site you agree that some cookies will be stored on your browser. For unlogged users we store one session id cookie. For registered members we store (in addition to login session cookie) only cookies that are essential for required functionality. We do not store any personal tracking data in cookies or other browsers' data storage methods.

POWERED BY AMASS 1.1version 1.1
made in Finland
by Pekka Saarinen
for photography-on-the.net
Spent 0.00163 for 4 database queries.
PAGE COMPLETED IN 0.03s
Latest registered member is Photomad
872 guests, 823 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 3341, that happened on Dec 11, 2014