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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #1
manderson
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Default 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

First, hello to everyone. This is an excellent and friendly forum. I hope I can become a worthy member.

I'm having a tough time deciding on the 5D Mark III body only or a kit with the 24-105 f/4L IS lens.

Here is my situation. I have a brand new 7D. I bought the 7D when it came out in 2009, had some trouble with it, and luckily I bought the extended warranty which was honored without question. Not only did they give me a brand new camera, but they gave it to me with another brand new 28-135 kit lens as well (and I didn't argue ). I say brand new, but in fact the camera has 121 actuations on it just from testing a bit, and it's really good. Everything in the box is still sealed. I used the battery from my old 7D. And I don't want this to be misconstrued as a "feeler" for selling my 7D. So please, no PM's about that. When I make a decision, I'll set a price and probably post here.

I also have EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS and 60mm f/2.8 macro lens that I can sell along with the 7D kit in order to finance the 5D Mark III. Both are in absolutely excellent condition and have been used very little. I didn't use my first 7D very much because I was never happy with it. I believe it was one that had the focus issue that was so beaten to death on the forums when it first came out. So it sat for a long time, and I finally did some real testing which lead me to conclude it needed to be replaced, and it was a good decision because the new one is much better. I am very happy with it and was thinking of keeping the 7D and EF-S lens compliment, but I honestly believe it will collect dust if I get the 5D mk III.

Which brings me to my problem. I am not certain I would be happy with the 24-105 f/4L kit lens. I'm sure it's a good lens, but the 5D mk III is supposed to be so good in low light, I believe I should opt for the EF 24-70 f/2.8L II lens. Now I get hung up on the fact that this lens has no IS. Are lots of people disappointed this lens was released without IS? It's also so expensive, I would have to buy the 5D body only and wait till I can save some money.

Selling the 7D with the EF-S lenses and buying the 5D mk III body only would leave me with only two lenses until I save more money, the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, and I also have the 70-200 f/4L IS lens.

I like to shoot low light indoors, and landscape in the evenings, or in mist, etc. I particularly like to take rides in the country and photograph old dilapidated buildings, structures, etc. Many people have told me I have a good eye for composition, and I did a couple real paying jobs with my first DSLR, the 40D, that went very well. Would like to get into some wildlife, but don't think keeping the 7D for extended reach would be necessary in my case. Of course, I could keep the 7D and save money until I can afford the 5D, but I want it so bad right now...

Maybe I'm just pouring out my woes and need someone to listen, but all comments will be appreciated. I really, really, really want the 5D mk III for the better IQ, AF, HD, and all those focus points!

And a final comment. I didn't know much about FF vs crop when I bought my first 40D DSLR, or when I upgraded to the 7D for that matter. I was using a G9 for a while before DSLR. After much educational reading, I have finally come to the conclusion that I am a Full Frame guy for the shooting I like to do.

Thanks to everyone who reads through my first post rant.

Mark A.
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #2
michgirl
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

Ahhhh - the big step. Early this year I went from crop (T1i) to FF (5D ii). First let me say to all that says there is no difference -- there is and owning a 5D ii or iii is truly a wonderful experience. I am a grandma and even I notice the difference. With that said - I got the kit and rarely use the 24-105mm. It does a fantastic job and I don't want to be without the IS. But indoors, I prefer a prime - they are lighter and faster. I have thought of selling my primes and 24-105 and going with the 24-70 f/2.8, but I think I would miss the longer reach of the 105 when needed and the IS and the lightness of the primes. Purchased with the 5d iii, the cost of the 24-105 is quite a good deal. Maybe buy the kit, a cheap prime and keep the 70-200 f/4. You can always get the 24-70 f/2.8 at some later date if you truly miss the 2.8 fl.
Good luck and can't wait to see what you get.
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #3
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

The 24-70 Mark II is a much better lens optically than the 24-105....that's the real reason you would want the 24-70. You'll likely find that the one stop advantage from F2.8 to F4 on a FF camera isn't too significant. IS is largely unnecessary for a medium length zoom like the 24-70, and its an extremely tack sharp lens.

If you really want to benefit from the low-light performance of the 5D, get a really fast prime.

That said, I don't think its worth it to be stuck with a body and no lens b/c you don't have the funds for the 24-70 MK II.

I would pick up the kit for now, and sell the 24-105 until you DO have the funds (net of the sale) for the Mark II.

or maybe you can pick up a used version of the Mark I?

or maybe you can pick up a $100 50mm 1.8 and shoot with that until you have the funds?
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #4
convergent
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

Mark, welcome to POTN... This is the place to debate what to buy for sure, and you'll get plenty of opinions!

You said you didn't use your 7D much, and now you are considering spending over $5K to upgrade (5D3 + 25-70 II). Im not sure you aren't going to end up disappointed. The 5D3 is an amazing camera, but the 7D is now slouch and in the hands of a talented shooter with the right lenses, I believe you'd be hard pressed to see the difference between processed images in normal situations. Just realize that even though everyone praises the camera and full frame in general... its still just a camera.

Now to your question about the lens. I love the 24-105 and over recent years it was the lens I almost always grabbed as a walk around lens on my 1D3. I had a 24-70 I the whole time too. I upgraded to the 24-70 II because I shoot a lot of indoor sports and need f/2.8. I loved the handling and build of the 24-105, and the II is very similar. I think you'd be happy with either, but unless you specifically need f/2.8, the 24-105 is a much better deal. Also if you have any intentions to do video, the 24-105 is the most popular lens for video.
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #5
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

The 28-135 will work well on your 5d3 also. With its hi iso ability you may not need the stop faster that the 24-105 gives. Then you could add an 85 f1.8. You have a nice set of cameras and lenses then
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #6
Houston1863
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

Hello Mark

Big welcome to POTN from me too. You certainly won't get any discouragement from me in going the 5D3 route. It's a FANTASTIC camera. I'm not sure what your budget is but if you are not intending to use the 7D much, you may as well sell it along with your EF-S lenses before the 7D begins to lose it's value when a replacement is announced. Depending on what you get and in respect of what you say you need ( low light ) and shoot ( buildings, landscapes ), I would consider getting a used 24-70 which though may have been superseded by albeit a very expensive newer model, nevertheless remains an excellent lens. It will though cost you more than the kit but speaking purely from my own experience in shooting low light, f4 would be quite pointless, IS or no IS. Again if you are shooting buildings and not people, then f4 wouldn't be an issue. I suppose I have never been attracted by the 24-105......

Alternatively you could get the 5D3, a pre-loved 16-35. I'm assuming you are hanging on to your 70-200 f/4L IS but if do sell this too, then there is a little more in terms of budget for you to play with. Incidentally IS is not a big deal in respect of the short to medium zooms.


Bottom line, given what you shoot I personally would go for the 24-70 and 16-35. These along with your 70-200 will be a good trio of lenses to shoot with the 5D3.


Whatever you end up with, keep enjoying your photography.
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #7
manderson
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

Thanking everyone for the comments.

michgirl - Absolutely about the primes. I really think my 60mm macro has better IQ than any of the zooms.

mystik610 - Tack sharp is something I am hung up on, and why the old 7D sat for a long time. The 7D pics were never tack sharp unless it was a close-up shot. My 40D pics always looked tack sharp at 100%. The old 7D never did. I really struggled with the 7D on this, got hung up in the 7D forum "soft focus" issue debates, and didn't know if it was me or the camera. Frankly, it was when I stumbled upon Darwin Wiggett's review of the 7D that I found he described the exact problem I was having. I know his review caused quite a stir, but it truly hit the problem spot on. I haven't tested enough with the new 7D, but I am certain it's much better just from my first hand held pics. I am still a novice and learning that everything is not always going to be tack sharp, even with good glass. Maybe more pixels does not equate to tack sharp at 100%. Maybe I'm a pixel peeper. Maybe the 7D is generally a bit softer unless you post process, because I judge from what comes out of the camera.

convergent - You are absolutely correct. I've seen pics from talented shooters with a 10D or 30D that are outstanding. Bryan Peterson said in Understanding Exposure that you should get the most out of your camera BEFORE post processing. I strive to get great pics from my camera without a lot of post processing. Maybe this is the wrong approach. My thinking was to sell the 7D now, because it is literally brand new, in order to get the most I can for it. But you are right; if I haven't honed my skills with the 7D, it might be better to wait. The 5D will always be there and the prices will drop...
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #8
manderson
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston1863 View Post
Hello Mark

Big welcome to POTN from me too. You certainly won't get any discouragement from me in going the 5D3 route. It's a FANTASTIC camera. I'm not sure what your budget is but if you are not intending to use the 7D much, you may as well sell it along with your EF-S lenses before the 7D begins to lose it's value when a replacement is announced.
This is exactly what I have been thinking and struggling with. If I don't sell the 7D now, I will end up using it and keeping it forever. On the other hand, I can sell it now to finance the 5D mk III, which I believe might be the camera I would want to keep for a long time. I have a few days to think about it. There are some pretty good sale prices on the 5D right now, lasting through the end of the month.
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #9
Houston1863
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

There are indeed some excellent proces on the 5D3 Mark and it is likely that the price of the the camera will come down further before settling down to a certain level until the next model appears which is not likely for another couple of years. The current best US price that I can see is USD2599 which is a great deal on this body. Even if it does come down sometime in the new year you'd have bought the camera at a good price and have enjoyed using it.

Like you, I too believe the quality of the 5D3 will result in it being a far longer and more rewarding keeper of the two bodies. If you don't need two bodies then I would consider parting company with the 7D. Since yours is pretty much BNIB, you should hopefully get a good price for it.

Lenses are a personal choice. While I've gone down the prime route I'm essentially a zoom user but pick the ones which will help you shoot your style of pictures best. I certainly think something wider than 24mm would suit you better.... at least that's how I would shoot buildings and landscapes. IMHO 24mm really isn't very wide.


Best wishes
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #10
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

I would get just the camera and put the rest of the money into a better lens. Not saying that the 24-105 is a bad lens but why not go for the 24-70 or even a prime lens.
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Old 17th of December 2012 (Mon)   #11
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

Just something to keep in mind, people do say the 5DIII makes their 24-105 "come to life" when compared to using it on a 5DII. It is a very verstile lens and while it may not be a world beater it is certainly worth the asking price. It is also usually easy to sell if you want to upgrade later. I rarely use mine but can't bring myself to sell it because it is just such a handy lens on a full frame body.
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Old 18th of December 2012 (Tue)   #12
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

I, too, upgraded from a 7D (which I love, mind you; I just wasn't crazy about its low-light performance, and I want to get into event photography), but went with a body only deal as, right now, there are a lot of places selling them for anywhere between $2500 and $2900. I caught a deal for $2700 from an authorized Canon dealer, so I jumped at it, figuring that the cheapest I'd seen the combo body/lens was a $1000 more than that! I've also noticed a lot of "new' 24-105s on craiglist and the like for $800 or so, so I'm guessing a lot of people got them in the ridiculously cheap 5D MK II kits that were out there before Canon instituted its MAP pricing scheme, and are selling them to offset their cost. I've heard nothing but good things about that lens, and there are deals to be had for certain, but, despite the MK IIIs excellent low-light performance (and it truly is exceptional!), I already have a couple of f/4 L lenses (17-40 and 70-200) and plan on putting my savings (as well as the money I get from the sale of my 7D and my Sigma 8-16mm!) toward a 16-35mm f/2.8L II and a 100mm f/2.8L macro (which I've seen some lovely portrait work done with on these very forums).
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Old 18th of December 2012 (Tue)   #13
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

Consider

1. A good tripod and head, for your dilapidated buildings and mists. A good carbon fibre one should be manageable strapped onto a rear pannier carrier of a touring bicycle.

2. The new 28mm f/2.8 IS or 35mm f/2 IS lenses, together with (say) an 85mm lens.
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Old 18th of December 2012 (Tue)   #14
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

I just upgraded from a 60D to 5D3 a mere 3 weeks ago. The drop dead perfect focusing and low light capabilities are well worth the price of the camera.

As for the 24-105 or 24-70 II, it's your call. I had both a year ago on my 60D and found the 24-70 mark i was just too heavy to carry for more than an hour or so. It's lack of IS also 'got me' quite badly at my step-daughters wedding. Fortunately, they had pro photographers. I sold the 24-70 a week later. I kept the 24-105 for 3 reasons...lighter weight, IS, and better zoom range. While some may consider it a bit less sharp than the latest 24-70, on the 5D3 the results are every bit as good as my other 'L's, not counting the 135 f2L (my absolute favorite lens, wide open, of course!).

So, should you opt for the 24-105 in the kit? I would, and unload the 28-135. The little bit of zoom range lost is more than compensated by the L sharpness and instantaneous focusing. And if you don't like it, sell it for more than the kit price 'bump' (prices will likely go up in January) and get the 24-70.

Last edited by bratkinson : 18th of December 2012 (Tue) at 03:28.
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Old 18th of December 2012 (Tue)   #15
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Default Re: 1st Post - Can't Decide on 5D MK III Body Only or Kit

You can't beat the price of the 24-105 as a kit lens, and it is a very useful lens to have. I would get the kit. You can always sell the lens later if you find you don't like it for some reason. I find the 24-105 a great place to start building a full frame kit. Later add a fast prime or a telephoto or whatever you find you need to compliment the kit lens. If you don't have a flash, I would recommend a Canon speed light.
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