POTN Speed Challenge Rules Changes - Vote Results

[Don Ellis]

Results of Poll
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=128210

While I should let this voting go on another week, I would like to get it settled on a Sunday night in Hong Kong. You can use this thread to complain about this decision or confirm your happiness.

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Compulsory Display
Should all images display in the thread?

Let's take the easy one first -- YES by a landslide... as it should be after BottomBracket's successful effort to explain the reasons...

1. If you don't have a website, you have to attach your image simply to enter -- and you will not be able to delete it later, but that's the cost of entering the challenage.

2. If you link from a website, you have full control over your image, including deleting it later... but please don't (more below).

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Commenting
Do we allow comments to be included with the original image?

A more contentious issue, but the answer is NO. Here's why:

1. The No votes are 16 to 8 (Boutty's was the last one counted), a clear majority. I gave some thought to xentinel2 and BobbyT's musings about limited comments, but I don't think they'll work -- too subjective.

Fortunately, there are two other reasons that point to NO as the right way to proceed...

2. This is a photo challenge, not a photo sharing exercise or an essay test, and the image should stand on its own.

3. You can always add your comments later and it would be great if you did. You can even include your comments with your photo if you edit your original post within a week of its posting -- and I recommend this approach because I like to see comments with the photos rather than later in the thread. This is possible because you can edit your post within a week -- so if you want to comment, post late in the challenge period to give yourself time to return and add your story.

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Other thoughts from voters, with my comments in blue:

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Belga noted that: "I like to see (read, that is) some background on the photos. The people will not necessarily add their comments after the competition has closed. As this is a friendly competition, commenting would be nice, purely because it increases my general knowledge of the different countries as well."

Precisely because this is a "friendly competition," I would think that the "No comments" rule would offer a conversational reason for people to return and comment on their own photos as well as others'. It's like going back to the classroom or office every day... you talk regularly to your friends and colleagues. Think of it as ongong participation rather than a quick post and disappear.

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rpolitsr and RafaPolit are on opposite sides of the fence, so I think I'll take the view of many police officers and not get involved in family disputes.

rpolitsr notes: "ABOUT DELETING IMAGES after a while, I am contrary to that practice. I think that posts become part of the forum’s history and removing the access to the image usually removes the most important part of the post’s content."

I agree. Think of these images as donated to the community cause. You still retain copyright, so that's not a problem. And since this is a friendly challenge with no cash reward for winning, if you have an image you want to protect, don't post it.

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While the NO COMMENTING rule won't find universal favour, I hope the reason for its implementation is understandable and acceptable -- especially with the ability to comment IN YOUR OWN PHOTO MESSAGE once the challenge is closed.

Cheers,

Don

P.S. One last personal comment that future hosts can consider or ignore -- Looking back over the hosts' comments on every single photo, I note three things: 1) they take a lot of time and thought and work, 2) there's the need to point out shortcomings to explain their not winning, and 3) there's an equal need to say something positive to offset the negative.

So I'm going to make comments only on the three winning entries... and any honorable mentions. Then we can all talk about the photos after the winners are declared. People can grumpily ask why they didn't win. Other people can tactfully suggest that Ducks don't win Chicken Challenges. Etc.

I liked the discussions we had after the Colors challenge and I hope to see more of that. After all, it takes only a little time to shoot and post a challenge entry, so for the rest of the week we can relax and have a chat.

[teekay]

I'm happy with your conclusions, Don - thanks for running the poll.

[quote] One last personal comment that future hosts can consider or ignore -- Looking back over the hosts' comments on every single photo, I note three things: 1) they take a lot of time and thought and work, 2) there's the need to point out shortcomings to explain their not winning, and 3) there's an equal need to say something positive to offset the negative.

So I'm going to make comments only on the three winning entries... and any honorable mentions...[quote]

Good idea. It's a tough enough job for judges without their having to say something about every photo.

[Bryan Bedell]

Thanks for doing all the work, Don. I'm happy with democracy, and for those of us that liked to post comments, we can just use longer titles eg. "A duck is a chicken." ha.

Just to open another can of worms, is EXIF data considered a 'comment?" And it is still a requirement to post the camera type, right?

[Boutty]

"It's Don, it's good!" - I am happy with the conclusion. Thanks Don.

[Don Ellis]

Originally Posted by Bryan Bedell

Thanks for doing all the work, Don. I'm happy with democracy, and for those of us that liked to post comments, we can just use longer titles eg. "A duck is a chicken." ha.

Just to open another can of worms, is EXIF data considered a 'comment?" And it is still a requirement to post the camera type, right?

Ah, that brings to mind the "three-word title" rule. I'm joking.

EXIF data is fine (although COMPLETE EXIF data is always a visual nuisance -- it's always nice to see it trimmed own to its most important facts).

Camera model is still required.

And it's always nice to see this information AFTER the photo, as a footnote to the visual impact of your photograph -- but that's a personal observation and doesn't affect eligibility.

Glad you're OK with the new rule. Thanks.

Don

[Don Ellis]

Teekay and Boutty -- thanks for the agreement. It may be a challenge but it's even better if it's a friendly challenge and that depends on everyone's support. Thank you.

Don

[rpolitsr]

Originally Posted by Don Ellis

rpolitsr and RafaPolit are on opposite sides of the fence, so I think I'll take the view of many police officers and not get involved in family disputes.

Many years ago RafaPolit started to speak by himself , but we agree about the comments in the speed challenges. Both my son and I like to read a clever comment or some background on the photos included, and we are contrary to the comments like “This duck IS a chicken” to emphasize that the photo fits the theme.
When voting, he gave a yes to the first class of comments and I gave a no to the second one. The fence is never that tall, we often jump over it. .

I’m ready to follow the new rules.

[BottomBracket]

Thanks Don for taking the time to guide the challenge into what it is now, a year older and better, and going strong. Your baby is doing alright. Thanks to all who took the time to express their views on how to improve the challenge. I truly feel that the new policies will bring this forum sub-culture closer, as we can discuss the entries with wild (and friendly) abandon once the results are in. Geez, a few more hours to go and I still don't have an entry. I better get on it.

[Don Ellis]

Originally Posted by BottomBracket

Geez, a few more hours to go and I still don't have an entry. I better get on it.

There must be something you find more pleasurable than explaining basic logic problems to me.

Thank you for your thank you... that's very kind. It is amazing that we're still here after a year.

Cheers,

Don

[Don Ellis]

Originally Posted by rpolitsr

Many years ago RafaPolit started to speak by himself , but ...

The fence is never that tall, we often jump over it. .

I’m ready to follow the new rules.

Always problematic when they begin talking.

Glad you find the new rules acceptable... I look forward to your entries. And I sympathize with your appreciation of comments. Looking over my own galleries, the majority of photos would be fairly meaningless without comments. I think my realization that you can add comments to your photos as long as it's done within a week will help enhance the original images.

Cheers,

Don

[Maureen Souza]

Thanks for taking the time to start the poll and the final results, Don. It is always interesting to fine-tune some of the rules after the game starts but I think these are great additions. Already I have enjoyed the "No Comments" when looking at this week's challenge entries.

[Don Ellis]

Originally Posted by Maureen Souza

Thanks for taking the time to start the poll and the final results, Don. It is always interesting to fine-tune some of the rules after the game starts but I think these are great additions. Already I have enjoyed the "No Comments" when looking at this week's challenge entries.

Hi Maureen,

You're quite welcome... everyone (so far) has been quite understanding and if this is the biggest controversy we ever have, we'll be lucky.

Glad you're enjoying the No Comments, although it's accidental this challenge because it's not yet a rule.

Cheers,

Don

[Don Ellis]

Special thanks to CDS, our moderator, for updating the Winners List at
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=113480

Cheers,

Don

[Maureen Souza]

Gosh, I forgot the rules haven't been applied yet. Still, it was so nice that everyone went by them anyways.

[MegaTrixel]

Don't know if this is the proper place to post this but...

As I looked at our new contest "Collections", I noticed the wording of rule #6 needs to change to reflect the addition of new rule #7. Rule #6 states you can add a story, give tips, etc.