Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports
Thread started 23 Jul 2013 (Tuesday) 22:21
Prev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

Post your cycling photos here!

 
AZAlphaDog
Goldmember
AZAlphaDog's Avatar
1,750 posts
Joined Oct 2009
Southwest
Jul 27, 2013 11:51 |  #31

Biffbradford wrote in post #16157327 (external link)
QUOTED IMAGE
[IMAGE'S LINK: http://s219.photobucke​t.com ...0889_zps0cb910ca.jp​g.html] (external link)

I would be willing to bet a 100% crop of this shot will reveal how soft the focus is, and there is nothing "artistic" about this image's lack of sharp focus.

QUOTED IMAGE
[IMAGE'S LINK: http://s219.photobucke​t.com ...7806_zps292a9883.jp​g.html] (external link)

The focus on this one doesn't appear to be very sharp either, lets see a 100% crop of this rider's face.

Not sure if I'm going to shoot any cyclocross at all this fall. I shot 10 days of the Tour of America's Dairyland in June (on spec) and made a whopping $40. The market for cycling photos here in the midwest is in the toilet. In July was 9 days of the Prairie State Cycling Classic (Illinois) - I didn't go to a single race. In fact, I pulled ALL my cycling stuff off Facebook. Ha! I think I'm better off shooting landscapes and chasing birds during the fall migration. (see my landscapes on the FAA link below, birds on my Flickr link)

You can't shoot cycling on spec anymore because guys like "brad21" flood the market with hundreds of "straight-out-of-camera" images because they just stand there and lean on the shutter . . .

brad21 wrote in post #16157461 (external link)
When you know it's out of focus, but somebody BUYS it anyway! ;)

BTW, my Cascade Classic pics are mostly SOOC... I edit after I get a purchase and give that disclaimer on my site. Not going to edit 400 shots beforehand...

You have so many shots because you are "capturing an instant in time" you are NOT making photographs, and sadly most people don't know the difference any more. For most people the lower the cost of the image the more they will accept poor quality, i.e. soft focus images.

brad21 how much are you selling your images for? And when you say "sell" you are talking about providing digital files to the "customer" and not talking about selling actual photographic prints, right?

Klystron wrote in post #16157560 (external link)
When its artistic ?

Artistically, and intentionally out of focus is one thing, out of focus because you used an incorrect shutter speed, missed your focus point or your camera didn't have time to get focus lock is an entirely different story . . .


DOUG JAMES | PHOTO PRODUCTIONSexternal link | FACEBOOKexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
brad21
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
brad21's Avatar
533 posts
Joined Jan 2012
Gardnerville, NV
Jul 27, 2013 12:30 |  #32

AZAlphaDog wrote in post #16158320external link
You can't shoot cycling on spec anymore because guys like "brad21" flood the market with hundreds of "straight-out-of-camera" images because they just stand there and lean on the shutter . . .

You have so many shots because you are "capturing an instant in time" you are NOT making photographs, and sadly most people don't know the difference any more. For most people the lower the cost of the image the more they will accept poor quality, i.e. soft focus images.

brad21 how much are you selling your images for? And when you say "sell" you are talking about providing digital files to the "customer" and not talking about selling actual photographic prints, right?


Artistically, and intentionally out of focus is one thing, out of focus because you used an incorrect shutter speed, missed your focus point or your camera didn't have time to get focus lock is an entirely different story . . .

Doug, you can go look at my site if you want specifics. I'm not giving my stuff away.

I didn't intend this as a debate thread. Why don't you post a photo and some c/c, make us all better?


EOS 7D2, EOS 1DMkIII (work equip.)/85mm 1.8, 300 2.8L, 16-35 2.8L, 24-70 2.8L, 24-105L, 70-200 2.8 L, Canon 1.4x, Canon G15, www.brad21photo.comexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
Biffbradford
Goldmember
Biffbradford's Avatar
Joined Jul 2008
Milwaukee
Jul 27, 2013 13:01 |  #33

Images posted here are not going to be tack sharp. They have been reduced in size and compressed. Please show me one image anywhere on POTN that looks tack sharp. Better yet, show us all how it's done and post one of yours here.


My pictures: John Wilke Photographyexternal link, Flikrexternal link , Facebookexternal link, Fine Arts Americaexternal link, Canon 1D MkII N, 1D MkIII, various Canon and Tokina lenses. :D

LOG IN TO REPLY
AZAlphaDog
Goldmember
AZAlphaDog's Avatar
1,750 posts
Joined Oct 2009
Southwest
Jul 27, 2013 15:27 |  #34

brad21 wrote in post #16158406external link
Doug, you can go look at my site if you want specifics. I'm not giving my stuff away.

I didn't intend this as a debate thread. Why don't you post a photo and some c/c, make us all better?

Do you want to be a better photographer?

Learn to "self-edit," if you take 395 images from a criterium, fine but sort through them and delete the out-of-focus images and just plain boring "snap-shot-ish" images that capture an "instant in time." Learn to keep only the tack sharp images that are unique images and capture your "style" and add value to your skills as a photographer.

Don't be the guy that fires off the shutter for every rider in the hopes that his great-aunt will see your web site and buy (17) 4 x 6 prints. In fact, stop offering 4 x 6 prints because to really appreciate your brand of unique images they are only sold as 12 x 18 custom prints . . .

What I am getting at here is that something that is unique and only available in limited quantities has more value than something that is not unique, i.e. a picture anyone could take, and something where only a few, once again unique examples are available.

Even if your images are so unique that no one could duplicate your "style" that still doesn't guarantee you will get any sales because there is always "someone" out there who will fire the shutter as every rider passes and put large images on the internet for free or for very low cost so it's an uphill battle to differentiate yourself from the pack.


DOUG JAMES | PHOTO PRODUCTIONSexternal link | FACEBOOKexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
brad21
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
brad21's Avatar
533 posts
Joined Jan 2012
Gardnerville, NV
Jul 27, 2013 16:56 |  #35

AZAlphaDog wrote in post #16158737 (external link)
Do you want to be a better photographer?

Learn to "self-edit," if you take 395 images from a criterium, fine but sort through them and delete the out-of-focus images and just plain boring "snap-shot-ish" images that capture an "instant in time." Learn to keep only the tack sharp images that are unique images and capture your "style" and add value to your skills as a photographer.

Don't be the guy that fires off the shutter for every rider in the hopes that his great-aunt will see your web site and buy (17) 4 x 6 prints. In fact, stop offering 4 x 6 prints because to really appreciate your brand of unique images they are only sold as 12 x 18 custom prints . . .

What I am getting at here is that something that is unique and only available in limited quantities has more value than something that is not unique, i.e. a picture anyone could take, and something where only a few, once again unique examples are available.

Even if your images are so unique that no one could duplicate your "style" that still doesn't guarantee you will get any sales because there is always "someone" out there who will fire the shutter as every rider passes and put large images on the internet for free or for very low cost so it's an uphill battle to differentiate yourself from the pack.

There we go. That's some good advice.

As you may have noticed I take a lot of panning shots because not everyone does that and the riders seem to like them. They're hard to get right every time, as you probably know.

I actually shot 771 images for 4 separate races, so I did "self-edit". I know that some of what's left is crap or boring, but at this point I'm still trying to make a sale, whatever it may be worth.

There was no shortage of "real" photogs at this race, not even including Aunt Tilly, mom and her iPhone, girlfriend with the p&s etc... but I wanted someone to be able to scan the gallery and find themselves, because who knows? Maybe they'd like a boring or soft focus 8x10??

Point taken and thanks for some real feedback.

PS, this one sold, and he claims to also be a photographer...

IMAGE: http://www.brad21photo.com/Sports/Bikes/CCC-Crit-2013/i-6hVCvds/0/L/IMG_6129-L.jpg

EOS 7D2, EOS 1DMkIII (work equip.)/85mm 1.8, 300 2.8L, 16-35 2.8L, 24-70 2.8L, 24-105L, 70-200 2.8 L, Canon 1.4x, Canon G15, www.brad21photo.comexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
AZAlphaDog
Goldmember
AZAlphaDog's Avatar
1,750 posts
Joined Oct 2009
Southwest
Jul 27, 2013 19:10 |  #36

brad21 wrote in post #16158922external link
There was no shortage of "real" photogs at this race, not even including Aunt Tilly, mom and her iPhone, girlfriend with the p&s etc...

And that is the problem!

That is the problem we all face, so many images available from so many different sources that even the unique images have little or no value . . .

The more images you take, and make available to the public the more the value drops.


DOUG JAMES | PHOTO PRODUCTIONSexternal link | FACEBOOKexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
TooManyShots
Cream of the Crop
9,966 posts
Joined Jan 2008
NYC
Jul 27, 2013 19:43 as a reply to AZAlphaDog's post |  #37

I guess I am late to the party here...:) For cycling photos, just go to my site. Here are few from mine....


NYC Harlem Crit.

IMAGE: http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Other/potn/i-5dVRn7F/0/X3/harlemcrit615_cat12045%20copy-X3.jpg


IMAGE: http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Other/potn/i-R8QmZSw/0/X3/harlemcrit615_cat12042%20copy-X3.jpg


From last week.

"Racing in New York City"
IMAGE: http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Other/potn/i-DrnWfbF/0/X3/loumalteserace__092%20copy-X3.jpg


My recent finishing shot experiment. I am getting tired of shooting those head-on finishing shots.

IMAGE: http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Other/potn/i-qGtt48Q/0/XL/8O2T0348-XL.jpg

A typical scene in our weekly park races, riders going up on a mild hill, pro123 field.

IMAGE: http://www.oneimagingphotography.com/Other/potn/i-Z4j8Pr9/0/XL/8O2T0255%20copy-XL.jpg

Yeah, you can't really shoot cycling race for the money. :) You have to do it for the sport as well as for the racing community. That's why I cut down my shooting by half this year. The racing community hasn't grown that much and I have been shooting the same riders. The same riders do not buy the photos anymore because they have them already. Occasionally, I do get some surprise results.....:) Oh yeah, those photogs year after year producing OOF shots and couldn't figure out why..... Yeah, those...hmmm... I couldn't figure why they would produce OOF shots year after year though.

One Imaging Photographyexternal link and my Flickrexternal link
Facebookexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
TooManyShots
Cream of the Crop
9,966 posts
Joined Jan 2008
NYC
Jul 27, 2013 20:04 |  #38

AZAlphaDog wrote in post #16157148external link
I was excited to review this thread, sadly most of the images are grossly out of focus!

I guess I have to ask, since when is an out-of-focus image acceptable?

Hehehe.....:)


One Imaging Photographyexternal link and my Flickrexternal link
Facebookexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
brad21
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
brad21's Avatar
533 posts
Joined Jan 2012
Gardnerville, NV
Jul 27, 2013 20:10 |  #39

AZAlphaDog wrote in post #16159173external link
And that is the problem!

That is the problem we all face, so many images available from so many different sources that even the unique images have little or no value . . .

The more images you take, and make available to the public the more the value drops.

It's really an impossible situation then.

Hell, a guy I've personally TALKED TO and recommended he NOT give his photos away on Facebook like he always does again posted up several galleries of 50+ photos each right after the last race I shot. He's a nice guy, been around the block even in the photo realm, and still just gives it away. Another photog/ex-teammate of mine has resorted to shooting dance recitals as a result of this guy's actions and several others like him...

:confused:


EOS 7D2, EOS 1DMkIII (work equip.)/85mm 1.8, 300 2.8L, 16-35 2.8L, 24-70 2.8L, 24-105L, 70-200 2.8 L, Canon 1.4x, Canon G15, www.brad21photo.comexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
TooManyShots
Cream of the Crop
9,966 posts
Joined Jan 2008
NYC
Jul 27, 2013 20:18 |  #40

brad21 wrote in post #16159292external link
It's really an impossible situation then.

Hell, a guy I've personally TALKED TO and recommended he NOT give his photos away on Facebook like he always does again posted up several galleries of 50+ photos each right after the last race I shot. He's a nice guy, been around the block even in the photo realm, and still just gives it away. Another photog/ex-teammate of mine has resorted to shooting dance recitals as a result of this guy's actions and several others like him...

:confused:


Here is a rule you should live by. You can't compete with FREE. If you are losing out to photogs shooting for FREE, your works suck. Two, you aren't able to establish yourself as THE race photographer in the racing community. If you are so afraid to compete with FREE, you better not shoot for the money then. Shoot it for the sports, for the racing community, and for artistic reasons. No, it is very unprofessional on YOUR part to tell people stop shooting for free. You can't. There are tons of people shooting for free.

For the OP, I checked your site. You are approaching cycling race photography like a charity ride. You need to produce race photos. Bike racing isn't a charity ride. There are stories to tell. There are race and pack dynamics.


One Imaging Photographyexternal link and my Flickrexternal link
Facebookexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
TooManyShots
Cream of the Crop
9,966 posts
Joined Jan 2008
NYC
Jul 27, 2013 20:40 |  #41

Biffbradford wrote in post #16158459external link
Images posted here are not going to be tack sharp. They have been reduced in size and compressed. Please show me one image anywhere on POTN that looks tack sharp. Better yet, show us all how it's done and post one of yours here.


Hahaha...John...sharp enough is all you need because you don't want to capture the riders as if they are doing track stands with frozen wheels and ridiculous sharp background. I rarely use shutter speed faster than 1/500s. You are supposed to convey motions in the shots. Obviously, if your shots are OOF, that's just...hmmm...bad. :)


One Imaging Photographyexternal link and my Flickrexternal link
Facebookexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
AZAlphaDog
Goldmember
AZAlphaDog's Avatar
1,750 posts
Joined Oct 2009
Southwest
Jul 27, 2013 20:59 as a reply to TooManyShots's post |  #42

There really isn't much point in shooting cycling on spec, guys with $6K bikes don't want to pay $25 for a nice print . . .

So you shoot it because you love cycling or because you love photography, not because you want to make money . . . (sadly you can say the same thing for most youth sports, baseball, football, basketball, etc.)

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/9142227008_74745da76f_b.jpg

Blur to show motion is one thing, out-of-focus is another . . .

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5343/9139999301_8d7732b03c_b.jpg

IMAGE: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2826/9139999311_aba831dd54_b.jpg

DOUG JAMES | PHOTO PRODUCTIONSexternal link | FACEBOOKexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
TooManyShots
Cream of the Crop
9,966 posts
Joined Jan 2008
NYC
Jul 27, 2013 22:06 |  #43

AZAlphaDog wrote in post #16159388external link
There really isn't much point in shooting cycling on spec, guys with $6K bikes don't want to pay $25 for a nice print . . .

So you shoot it because you love cycling or because you love photography, not because you want to make money . . . (sadly you can say the same thing for most youth sports, baseball, football, basketball, etc.)

Blur to show motion is one thing, out-of-focus is another . . .

It really depends....on the riders. If you are shooting riders just starting to race, yeah, you can make some money from the photos. Now, if you are shooting local pros or amateur elite riders who have been racing for more than 10 years, is kind of hard to sell them photos. You are far less likely to make some good money shooting pros and amateur elites than people just starting the sport. This goes for most sports. If your racing community isn't growing and having the same riders racing year after year, you know you aren't going to make any money selling photos of them.


One Imaging Photographyexternal link and my Flickrexternal link
Facebookexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
Biffbradford
Goldmember
Biffbradford's Avatar
Joined Jul 2008
Milwaukee
Aug 01, 2013 12:25 |  #44

Thoughts? My last attempt at squeezing blood out of a turnip ($) for the time I put into shooting spec at this last cycling series. Sales of individual photos (print or file) were almost non-existent. Nobody is doing posters around here (okay, one guy for MTB), it's all spray and dump straight from the camera. I chose this rider, Tamina Oliver, because she is from Great Britain and rode for this local team just in this series, so I know nobody is going to 'profit' from posting this to FB. Ha! I still get emails: "How do I download the high rez file of xyz photo?" Uh ... you PAY for it. :roll:

IMAGE: http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc54/biffbradford/TaminaOliver_zpsc49e84b6.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: http://s219.photobucke​t.com ...iver_zpsc49e84b6.jp​g.html] (external link)

My pictures: John Wilke Photographyexternal link, Flikrexternal link , Facebookexternal link, Fine Arts Americaexternal link, Canon 1D MkII N, 1D MkIII, various Canon and Tokina lenses. :D

LOG IN TO REPLY
ormathisen
Senior Member
ormathisen's Avatar
273 posts
Joined Oct 2012
Northern-Norway
Aug 01, 2013 13:14 |  #45

Great to see a thread like this with lots of photos. I´m covering Arctic Race of Norway (www.arctic-race.noexternal link) for a wire service next weekend and I´m looking for inspiration. I need the "Finishline-celebrating" moneyshot photos but I need to produce photos good enough during the race to sell for web-newspapers. Good work, and I don´t care about photos not being tack sharp etc ;-)a


--
Happy Norwegian

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

93,403 views & 344 likes for this thread
Post your cycling photos here!
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports


Not a member yet? Click here to register to the forums.
Registered members get all the features: search, following threads, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, settings, view hosted photos, own reviews and more...


AAA

Send feedback to staff    •   Jump to forum...    •   Rules    •   Index    •   New posts    •   RTAT    •   'Best of'    •   Gallery    •   Gear    •   Reviews    •   Polls

COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Privacy policy and cookie usage info.

POWERED BY AMASS 1.4version 1.4
made in Finland
by Pekka Saarinen
for photography-on-the.net
Spent 0.00128 for 4 database queries.
PAGE COMPLETED IN 0.07s
Latest registered member is alessandro
931 guests, 442 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6106, that happened on Jun 09, 2016