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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre People Talk
Thread started 06 Nov 2015 (Friday) 17:45
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Using a grey card vs a cto gel, are they the same?

 
digitalduck
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Nov 06, 2015 17:45 |  #1

So have a shoot next weekend andthought about getting some 1/2 cto's but using a grey card wouldn't be the same correct? Is it mainly becuase using a cto would keep the color of the ambient correct but would "match (white balance) the subject correctly but a grey card would just match the subject and then the ambient would match the same warm or cold but may not be correctly "exposed" ? AM i non the right track?

Thanks




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texkam
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By The Lake in Big D
Nov 06, 2015 17:51 |  #2

No. Explain what the challenge is that you are facing.




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digitalduck
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Nov 06, 2015 17:54 as a reply to texkam's post |  #3

Hi Tex, so it will be in the mountains and I would normally use my rovelight or speedlight, but give nthe fact that its still fall and even though I dont wnt it to be super warm, I may use the light for fill and wouldn't want it to be too cold only to have my adjust it slightly in post but then the overall temp will change, not just the subjects.

Perhaps if i used a 1/2 cto gel then the end result wont be too warm and ill still have nice fill, catchlights etc... I have a grey card but I know thats not the same end result...




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s1a1om
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Post has been edited over 2 years ago by s1a1om.
Nov 06, 2015 18:10 |  #4

Gels are meant to match the light source to the ambient light conditions. If you have a bright blue sky, you will likely want a CTB gel to match the quality of light coming from the flash to the color of light coming from the sky. If you have a deep orange sunset, you will likely want a CTO gel to match the color of the flash to the color of the light from the sunset.

See how the light in this photo coming from the strobe is very white and doesn't match the orange light from the sunset?
http://s621.photobucke​t.com ...G/media/_MG_3635.jp​g.html (external link)

See how the light in this photo from the flash is warmer and matches the sunset better? Note the photographer here mentions they used 1 gelled flash and one not gelled. Can you tell which direction the gelled one is coming from? What about the non-gelled one?
http://www.jonimages.c​om/img/s7/v163/p361862​081-5.jpg (external link)


Constructive criticism is always appreciated.

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windpig
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Post has been last edited over 2 years ago by windpig. 2 edits done in total.
Nov 06, 2015 19:32 |  #5

s1a1om wrote in post #17774748 (external link)
See how the light in this photo coming from the strobe is very white and doesn't match the orange light from the sunset?
http://s621.photobucke​t.com ...G/media/_MG_3635.jp​g.html (external link)

That's just a poorly lighted subject, color match is the least of the issues.

s1a1om wrote in post #17774748 (external link)
See how the light in this photo from the flash is warmer and matches the sunset better? Note the photographer here mentions they used 1 gelled flash and one not gelled. Can you tell which direction the gelled one is coming from? What about the non-gelled one?
http://www.jonimages.c​om/img/s7/v163/p361862​081-5.jpg (external link)

This one is better, but only because the light is softer. Problem is two competing light sources (setting sun and key light camera left)camera left light is gelled.

On both of them I would have filled with on axis light only, considering the sunset is directly behind both subjects.

Just my two bits worth.


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s1a1om
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Nov 06, 2015 20:52 as a reply to windpig's post |  #6

I was in no way saying either was a good photo. Just pointing out what a gel does. I agree with you on all points. They were the best examples I could come up with from a quick Google search.


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digitalduck
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Nov 06, 2015 21:42 as a reply to s1a1om's post |  #7

Hi s1a1om.. thanks for the pictures and I agree with windpig on the assessment of the lights. I guess I am concerned that some of the pics ive seen as examples are too warm because the photographer likes the look when I thought that its too warm. Could it be too high of a cto? could it be bad post? Perhaps,...I did just purchase a set from amazon to be delivered Sunday so I can try them on the speedlight... I do want to bring my Rovelight with me and my 48" Octo but will also being my speedlight, a gel and a softbox Cheetah qbox style not Apollo..really just to fill shadows and add some catchlights no matter what i do in post... im trying to determine if I want to gel the speedlight or just bring my Rovelight...would I gel that?




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windpig
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Nov 07, 2015 02:59 |  #8

It will bea nice chancd to experiment, especially because it's so easy to gel a light. I'd be sure to have a couple of 1\4 CTS.


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digitalduck
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Nov 07, 2015 10:19 as a reply to windpig's post |  #9

Then I just saw CTS.. lol since its more yellow and less red, should I be looking at those as well?

Ultimately, I like the look of photos like this...

This is warm enough because i ike the lighter look http://media.digitalca​meraworld.com ...re.getty_RF_1631157​20.jpg (external link)

but I like this but this is too warm for me or is right at the border

http://2.bp.blogspot.c​om ...its-clinton-library-7.jpg (external link)

Another one i think is warm enouhg

http://www.apriloharep​hotography.com ...ortraits-in-Telluride.jpg (external link)

and here https://farm8.staticfl​ickr.com ...33196745_a043576377​_c.jpg (external link)

Then again, you can get the right light along wiht the right skill and achieve great results ala Lisa Holloway.... but for now... what are your thoughts on the two posted pics... second one could have a CTO perhaps?

I know a lot can be adjusted in post as well..




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windpig
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Nov 07, 2015 10:27 |  #10

mixed lighting is a hassle to adjust in post, therefore the need to gel to match, if in fact that's what you're after. For sure I'd be setting up my camera such that the LCD gets me close to representing color and contrast so that you can chimp (add or subtract or change your gel).

In the link images from your above post I would say the WB is all over the place, but none of the images were dealing with drastic mixed light.


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texkam
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By The Lake in Big D
Nov 07, 2015 16:01 |  #11

Are you shooting in raw?




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digitalduck
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Post has been edited over 2 years ago by digitalduck.
Nov 07, 2015 17:31 |  #12

texkam wrote in post #17775551 (external link)
Are you shooting in raw?

Absolutely, I know ill have a higher dynamic range with the 6d for what its worth, butill bring my Rovelight, 48 Octobox and ill bring some 14 and 1/2 cto gels to see how they perform in a softbox...

Looking online, I like this pics color style

http://www.pinkous.com .../2015/05/picture-8622.jpg (external link)

looks like it was an 85 L lens on a 5dmiii..... while I dont have that I do have my 6d and 70-200 2.8 and 24-105 f4..... I would still be capable of something ilke this without flash so with, i should be fine...




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absplastic
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Nov 07, 2015 20:10 |  #13

digitalduck wrote in post #17775638 (external link)
http://www.pinkous.com .../2015/05/picture-8622.jpg (external link)

looks like it was an 85 L lens on a 5dmiii..... while I dont have that I do have my 6d and 70-200 2.8 and 24-105 f4..... I would still be capable of something ilke this without flash so with, i should be fine...

For that exact look, you also have to get lucky with an overcast sky. That is to say, it's not a reliable plan B, especially if you're shooting mid day. Direct sunlight won't leave you this option, you'll probably have to find shade and deploy the big octo to get a soft look.


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mike_311
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Nov 09, 2015 07:32 |  #14

a grey card will help you to get a proper WB in post so you dont need to dial in the color temperature at the time of capture. gels are different in that they will change the color temp of your artificial light to match the ambient so that when you go to adjust in post you arent dealing with multiple color temps.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post has been last edited over 2 years ago by Left Handed Brisket. 2 edits done in total.
Nov 09, 2015 08:17 |  #15

1/2 CTO is almost always too warm

1/4 CTO works great when the sun is on the horizon

CTS for an hour before sunset

remember that two 1/4 gels equal one 1/2


edit: it's been a long time since i spent time in the Rockies outside of Denver, but i sure feel like with the altitude, orange and red sunsets were not super common. Yes you get some bouncing off the clouds (if there are any) but just the sun coming through a clear cold atmosphere isn't going to create the same look as other places. In other words, i'd bet the CTS will be your best bet.


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Using a grey card vs a cto gel, are they the same?
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