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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 07 Jan 2016 (Thursday) 08:35
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Real full frame cameras

 
joedlh
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Jan 07, 2016 08:35 |  #1

Phase 1 announced a medium format 100mp back for their cameras. According to dpreview, they're calling it full frame. Does that mean that all the people who call 135 format sensors full frame have to start calling them something else? Will many "full frame" owners now have to run out and drop $49,000 on a camera so that they can continue to state that they only shoot full frame? I'm just asking.

http://www.dpreview.co​m …0_162913140_dpr​_nl_182_69 (external link)


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Left Handed Brisket. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 07, 2016 08:43 |  #2

6x4.5 film is 56mm x 42mm

the new Phase One is listed as 53.7mm x 40.4mm while a typical MF camera back is a smaller "crop" sensor.

apples to oranges, they (35mm and MF) are both full frame.

technically though, 6x6 medium formant would probably be considered FF by some.


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Wilt
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Wilt. (5 edits in all)
     
Jan 07, 2016 11:49 |  #3

A number of us have, from the very beginning, objected to 135 format 24 x 36mm being used as 'full frame' definition, as if the 135 format were the standard against which all formats were judged...we brought up the point that 24 x 36mm was actually referred to as the 'miniature format' (apparently somewhat derogatorily) in the 1950s and early 1960s.
But for the common usage of 'FF' we all had to give up the fight, as the industry and journalists all referred to the 'crop' vs. 'FF' bodies both using the same lenses.

In the medium format world, the square 6x6 format was marketed by Hasselblad for a long time as superior to the 645 format. That marketing positioning disappeared as soon as Hasselblad started to put digital backs on their bodies, and all of the sensors were LESS THAN 645 (43 x 56mm) in size. For example one back offered by Hasselblad was 32.9mm x 43.8mm or a 1/1.3 crop vs. the 'FF 645'. It has taken medium format many, many years even to EQUAL the 43 x 56mm dimension. Ergo, in the medium format world sensors smaller than 43 x 56 were 'crop' and those achieving 43 x 56 (or thereabouts) are 'full frame'...and even 40.4mm x 53.7 is not truly 'Full Frame 645', but we'll let 7% sneak by.

That brings us back to 'FF' being a contextual reference, and NOT establishing 24 x 36mm 135 format as 'the standard reference'.


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gonzogolf
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Jan 07, 2016 12:00 |  #4

Why the pedantic hangup on the term full frame? It serves its purpose to distinguish between 35mm and crop sensors in bodies that share a form factor.




  
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Wilt
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Jan 07, 2016 12:07 |  #5

gonzogolf wrote in post #17848486 (external link)
Why the pedantic hangup on the term full frame? It serves its purpose to distinguish between 35mm and crop sensors in bodies that share a form factor.

Me. pedantic and hung up? I am not hung up on it, I ceased trying a very long time ago, and merely was responding to the OP's question.


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Charlie
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Jan 07, 2016 12:50 as a reply to  @ gonzogolf's post |  #6

MF cameras have the same issues as 35mm based cameras, one "full" frame, and one with a smaller frame "crop". Pentax uses a ~40mm sensor and phase 1 uses ~50mm.


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JeffreyG
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Jan 07, 2016 13:42 |  #7

To my mind, 35mm is 'full frame' within the context of the complete and preexisting lens lines that existed at the time that the digital sub-formats were invented that shared these same lenses.

So there is nothing wrong or silly about the name. And the existence of larger medium format sensors does nothing to change the fact that 35mm is 'full frame' for EOS.

People act shocked....like, how can 35mm be full frame when actual bigger sensors exist? Well, try shooting 6x6 with EOS or Nikon F-mount and you'll see what 'full frame' means.


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Cuypers1807
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Jan 07, 2016 13:48 |  #8

Use of the words "full frame" is just a sales gimmick to make those with crop sensors feel inadequate and need to eventually upgrade to FF to be "professional".


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gonzogolf
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Jan 07, 2016 13:49 |  #9

Cuypers1807 wrote in post #17848654 (external link)
Use of the words "full frame" is just a sales gimmick to make those with crop sensors feel inadequate and need to eventually upgrade to FF to be "professional".

There is a legitimate difference between the two formats that goes beyond marketing.




  
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Cuypers1807
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Jan 07, 2016 13:51 |  #10

true... but not as much as 35mm to medium format film... or medium format to 4x5 or 8x10.


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gonzogolf
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Jan 07, 2016 14:02 |  #11

Cuypers1807 wrote in post #17848663 (external link)
true... but not as much as 35mm to medium format film... or medium format to 4x5 or 8x10.

Nope. Nobody claimed that. It's just a term that describes a class of Cameras.




  
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kf095
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Jan 08, 2016 11:02 |  #12

To me in MF the FF is 6x6 and 6x4.5 is half-frame. If Phase Uno has sensor as big as 6x6 it is FF in MF.
But what is 6x9 then...  :p


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nathancarter
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Jan 08, 2016 15:04 |  #13

gonzogolf wrote in post #17848486 (external link)
Why the pedantic hangup on the term full frame? It serves its purpose to distinguish between 35mm and crop sensors in bodies that share a form factor.

Whatta ya, new to photography?

Arguing about semantics is one of the core principles of proper photography. It's right up there with measurebation, pixel-peeping, and complaining about new gear that hasn't been released yet.


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Jan 08, 2016 15:09 |  #14

Cuypers1807 wrote in post #17848654 (external link)
Use of the words "full frame" is just a sales gimmick to make those with crop sensors feel inadequate and need to eventually upgrade to FF to be "professional".

Never in life. You have to remember that full-frame cameras appeared before cropped sensors. If anything, it's the crop that's the gimmick to make people who can't afford or are unwilling to pay thousands for a camera buy DSLR cameras.


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gjl711
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Jan 08, 2016 15:22 |  #15

Hmm.. Interesting, a quick peek at Wiki (external link) seems to indicate that the term Full Frame has been around since 1932 and was used to define a frame size almost equal of today's digital crop cameras. :)


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Real full frame cameras
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