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Thread started 28 Jan 2016 (Thursday) 13:28
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Upgrade PC or get a new one (for 5DsR photos)

 
adamo99
Goldmember
Joined Mar 2007
Mississauga, ON
Jan 30, 2016 21:06 |  #16

MalVeauX wrote in post #17877809 (external link)
Pretty sure your CPU is tiers faster than even the best laptop CPU for what you're doing. Your issue is elsewhere.

Loading several images from slow HDD's, especially those being served through a RAID 1 array, will be slow. That's your #1 bottleneck. That has to be read and served through the bus to the RAM for use. Your bottleneck is between the data itself and how it gets to your RAM.

Except where the OP states this:

KatManDEW wrote in post #17877799 (external link)
The HWMoniter app shows all the PC cores pegging at 100% the instant I send images to a HDR app. It takes 3-5 minutes to do a HDR. A friend of mine just got a relatively inexpensive laptop and the same process takes 20-30 seconds with that laptop.

A RAID1 array isn't necessarily slow. I can have a pair of Samsung 850Pro SSD drives in RAID1, and it'll be more than fast enough. If the CPU utilization is pegged at 100%, the CPU(s) are the bottleneck. If your RAID implementation is software based, through the O/S, then that processing is handled by the CPU also, making the situation worse.

I have a quad-core, hyperthreaded i7 laptop with 256Kb L1 cache, 1MB of L2 cache, and 6MB of L3 cache, with 24Gbs of RAM, and 2TB of SSD storage, and it does everything immediately.

OP, sounds like a new motherboard and CPU combo, and most likely new memory are in your future. You don't absolutely have to re-install your O/S, but I would. Also, if you can (and I would highly recommend it), get a dedicated RAID controller, so the controller on the card handles the RAID functions, rather than the host CPU.




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RichSoansPhotos
Cream of the Crop
5,981 posts
Joined Aug 2007
London, UK
Jan 31, 2016 06:18 |  #17
banned

KatManDEW wrote in post #17878455 (external link)
Thank you!!!


Let me expand on that post, you still have the OS on that hard drive, so hence this is the reason why you don't need a new installation, just keep it safe. All it does is recognises that a new motherboard and/or hardware has been installed and updates according all the drivers needed from the OS' installation files (albeit, there may be a need for some drivers to be installed, you have to go on the manufacturer's website for that)




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Submariner
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London
Jan 31, 2016 17:22 |  #18

I have always found a fresh install is faster. Heavens knows why? And past caring.

I have the same problem with my current system and huge 5DS R files. I have pretty much been ridiculed as I struggled as a novice to design a build that will not disappoint.

Many say I am crazy and dont need anything like the system I am building ....but note none of them have a 5DS R ;)


All my stuff comes this week :) hopefully.

Super-micro X10SRA MB, Xeon E51650 v3 6 core 40 Lane CPU 3.5 to 3.8 Turbo Ghz.
32GB EEC 2133 Ram, 512 Samsung 950 Pro M.2 PCIe SSD as an os and program, working file disk - Connected by an Asus Hyoer PCIe-M.2 adapter card, 512GB Samsung Evo 850 interim storage file, as I have one spare ex the converted laptop [I.e. Once finished editing I quickly copy the worjk tomthis to free the super fast samsung 950 Pro. Archive disk TBD?? possibly WE black 2 or 3TB ( currently an old wd blue 500GB Sata ... as I have it in a drawer) .
Phantek Evolv ATX case with Noctua 3x 140mm fans. Plus 2x Phantex 140mm stock fans comes with the case
Cooled by Noctua NH-D15 air cooler. And a MSI Gaming 970 GPU. Price under £2000.
4K HP 24" IPS 3840'x 2160 at 60Hz. glass screen monitor.

OP ... If you want to see how it pans out let me know by PM and I will tell you which elements worked out.... Assuming I can actually build a workstation???


Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

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-dave-m-
Senior Member
Joined Sep 2011
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Feb 01, 2016 00:35 |  #19

Submariner wrote in post #17880769 (external link)
I have always found a fresh install is faster. Heavens knows why? And past caring.

I have the same problem with my current system and huge 5DS R files. I have pretty much been ridiculed as I struggled as a novice to design a build that will not disappoint.

Many say I am crazy and dont need anything like the system I am building ....but note none of them have a 5DS R ;)


All my stuff comes this week :) hopefully.

Super-micro X10SRA MB, Xeon E51650 v3 6 core 40 Lane CPU 3.5 to 3.8 Turbo Ghz.
32GB EEC 2133 Ram, 512 Samsung 950 Pro M.2 PCIe SSD as an os and program, working file disk - Connected by an Asus Hyoer PCIe-M.2 adapter card, 512GB Samsung Evo 850 interim storage file, as I have one spare ex the converted laptop [I.e. Once finished editing I quickly copy the worjk tomthis to free the super fast samsung 950 Pro. Archive disk TBD?? possibly WE black 2 or 3TB ( currently an old wd blue 500GB Sata ... as I have it in a drawer) .
Phantek Evolv ATX case with Noctua 3x 140mm fans. Plus 2x Phantex 140mm stock fans comes with the case
Cooled by Noctua NH-D15 air cooler. And a MSI Gaming 970 GPU. Price under £2000.
4K HP 24" IPS 3840'x 2160 at 60Hz. glass screen monitor.

OP ... If you want to see how it pans out let me know by PM and I will tell you which elements worked out.... Assuming I can actually build a workstation???

Are you a psychic? How do you know none of the people who responded to your request for advice have a 5DS R? I currently have a 5DS R on long term loan from a friend who is out of country for the next 18 months(has already been away for 6 months). I have around 1500 RAW files of which I have edited about 500. I have edited files with LR, PS, DPP and several other editing programs. I have edited them on multiple machines including a 5 year old X58/i7-960, 2 year old Z87/i7-4770k, 1 year old Z97/i7-4790k, 1 year old X99/i7-5930k, new Z170/i7-6700k and a MSI Gaming laptop with an i7-5700HQ. All of them have an SSD and at least 16 GB RAM. GPU's range from Intel on chip, Nvidia GTX 460, GTX 760, GTX 970, GTX 980 Ti and GTX 960m, some of these with dual SLI. The X58/i7-960 struggles mainly because of bandwidth limitations between the processor and RAM/Storage. The laptop holds it's own and is perfectly acceptable for a laptop. The other four PC's(I own all but the X99) breeze through editing with no problems and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference of which one you are using.


5D MkII Gripped | 7D MkII Gripped | 200 f/2.8L | 17-40 f/4L | Σ 24-105 OS f/4 Art | Σ 50 f/1.4 Art | Σ 150-600 OS f/5-6.3 C | 430EX II

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KatManDEW
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
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Joined Jan 2005
Ohio
Feb 01, 2016 18:13 |  #20

jnecr wrote in post #17878886 (external link)
I'd like to do some testing as well. I hear a lot about people having trouble with large 5DS files but would like to experience it myself.

Also, do you have a video card in your system? Lightroom CC takes advantage of the GPU for processing files as far as I know, not sure about Photomatix. This might help tremendously for large files. I use on-board graphics and have no problems with speed, but I only have a 20MP camera... :)

Yes, I have a Firepro 5900 which I need to be able to use 10 bit color with my NEC PA301WSV.




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Bleufire
Goldmember
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1,182 posts
Joined Mar 2008
California
Feb 01, 2016 18:17 |  #21

-dave-m- wrote in post #17881130 (external link)
Are you a psychic? How do you know none of the people who responded to your request for advice have a 5DS R? I currently have a 5DS R on long term loan from a friend who is out of country for the next 18 months(has already been away for 6 months). I have around 1500 RAW files of which I have edited about 500. I have edited files with LR, PS, DPP and several other editing programs. I have edited them on multiple machines including a 5 year old X58/i7-960, 2 year old Z87/i7-4770k, 1 year old Z97/i7-4790k, 1 year old X99/i7-5930k, new Z170/i7-6700k and a MSI Gaming laptop with an i7-5700HQ. All of them have an SSD and at least 16 GB RAM. GPU's range from Intel on chip, Nvidia GTX 460, GTX 760, GTX 970, GTX 980 Ti and GTX 960m, some of these with dual SLI. The X58/i7-960 struggles mainly because of bandwidth limitations between the processor and RAM/Storage. The laptop holds it's own and is perfectly acceptable for a laptop. The other four PC's(I own all but the X99) breeze through editing with no problems and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference of which one you are using.


Man... It would be awesome if someone with multiple GPUs would do some benchmarks to see how much a discrete GPU can make in PS or LR ;-)a


5D*Sigma 50/1.4*EF 17-40/4
New to Photography? ----> ENJOY! Canon DSLR! (external link)

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KatManDEW
THREAD ­ STARTER
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Joined Jan 2005
Ohio
Feb 01, 2016 18:20 |  #22

adamo99 wrote in post #17879713 (external link)
Except where the OP states this:

A RAID1 array isn't necessarily slow. I can have a pair of Samsung 850Pro SSD drives in RAID1, and it'll be more than fast enough. If the CPU utilization is pegged at 100%, the CPU(s) are the bottleneck. If your RAID implementation is software based, through the O/S, then that processing is handled by the CPU also, making the situation worse.

I have a quad-core, hyperthreaded i7 laptop with 256Kb L1 cache, 1MB of L2 cache, and 6MB of L3 cache, with 24Gbs of RAM, and 2TB of SSD storage, and it does everything immediately.

OP, sounds like a new motherboard and CPU combo, and most likely new memory are in your future. You don't absolutely have to re-install your O/S, but I would. Also, if you can (and I would highly recommend it), get a dedicated RAID controller, so the controller on the card handles the RAID functions, rather than the host CPU.

It hardware RIAD via the controllers on the motherboard.

But, I just looked up my motherboard online and it appears that only two of the SATA RAID controllers are SATA 6Gb/s and all the others are SATA 3Gb/s.
http://www.gigabyte.co​m ...uct-page.aspx?pid=3449#sp (external link)

So, it seems like that could be the main problem...

Does it make sense to try a RAID controller? The only ones I've seen for a reasonable price have a maximum of four ports. Models with more ports cost as much as a new motherboard/CPU and memory...




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-dave-m-
Senior Member
Joined Sep 2011
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Feb 01, 2016 18:57 |  #23

KatManDEW wrote in post #17882158 (external link)
It hardware RIAD via the controllers on the motherboard.

But, I just looked up my motherboard online and it appears that only two of the SATA RAID controllers are SATA 6Gb/s and all the others are SATA 3Gb/s.
http://www.gigabyte.co​m ...uct-page.aspx?pid=3449#sp (external link)

So, it seems like that could be the main problem...

Does it make sense to try a RAID controller? The only ones I've seen for a reasonable price have a maximum of four ports. Models with more ports cost as much as a new motherboard/CPU and memory...

X58 boards only support SATA II natively, SATA III is achieved using a Marvell controller. The Marvell Controller can not run two SATA III drives at max speed at the same time. If you are using HHD's it's probably OK, SSD's in RAID would actually be slower(I had two X58 based motherboards with the same Marvell Controller).

I personally would not invest anything into trying to get more performance from your current system. Better to save the money and do a proper upgrade.

Cheap RAID cards rely heavily on the CPU and are much the same as onboard solutions. A true hardware RAID card such as an LSI will start around $250 and go up from there.


5D MkII Gripped | 7D MkII Gripped | 200 f/2.8L | 17-40 f/4L | Σ 24-105 OS f/4 Art | Σ 50 f/1.4 Art | Σ 150-600 OS f/5-6.3 C | 430EX II

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KatManDEW
THREAD ­ STARTER
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Joined Jan 2005
Ohio
Feb 01, 2016 19:19 |  #24

-dave-m- wrote in post #17882225 (external link)
X58 boards only support SATA II natively, SATA III is achieved using a Marvell controller. The Marvell Controller can not run two SATA III drives at max speed at the same time. If you are using HHD's it's probably OK, SSD's in RAID would actually be slower(I had two X58 based motherboards with the same Marvell Controller).

I personally would not invest anything into trying to get more performance from your current system. Better to save the money and do a proper upgrade.

Cheap RAID cards rely heavily on the CPU and are much the same as onboard solutions. A true hardware RAID card such as an LSI will start around $250 and go up from there.

So I should get a new motherboard/CPU and memory, right?

Thanks.




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RichSoansPhotos
Cream of the Crop
5,981 posts
Joined Aug 2007
London, UK
Feb 02, 2016 06:13 |  #25
banned

-dave-m- wrote in post #17881130 (external link)
Are you a psychic? How do you know none of the people who responded to your request for advice have a 5DS R? I currently have a 5DS R on long term loan from a friend who is out of country for the next 18 months(has already been away for 6 months). I have around 1500 RAW files of which I have edited about 500. I have edited files with LR, PS, DPP and several other editing programs. I have edited them on multiple machines including a 5 year old X58/i7-960, 2 year old Z87/i7-4770k, 1 year old Z97/i7-4790k, 1 year old X99/i7-5930k, new Z170/i7-6700k and a MSI Gaming laptop with an i7-5700HQ. All of them have an SSD and at least 16 GB RAM. GPU's range from Intel on chip, Nvidia GTX 460, GTX 760, GTX 970, GTX 980 Ti and GTX 960m, some of these with dual SLI. The X58/i7-960 struggles mainly because of bandwidth limitations between the processor and RAM/Storage. The laptop holds it's own and is perfectly acceptable for a laptop. The other four PC's(I own all but the X99) breeze through editing with no problems and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference of which one you are using.


It's got nothing to do with any cameras, it's got a lot to do with computer hardware and operating systems and that is all. The OP wants to replace his mobo if at best, or get a new PC, it's got nada to do with cameras




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-dave-m-
Senior Member
Joined Sep 2011
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Feb 02, 2016 08:18 |  #26

RichSoansPhotos wrote in post #17882756 (external link)
It's got nothing to do with any cameras, it's got a lot to do with computer hardware and operating systems and that is all. The OP wants to replace his mobo if at best, or get a new PC, it's got nada to do with cameras

My reply to Submariner had everything to do with a specific camera and that you don't need to spend thousands on server grade hardware to edit files from that camera.


5D MkII Gripped | 7D MkII Gripped | 200 f/2.8L | 17-40 f/4L | Σ 24-105 OS f/4 Art | Σ 50 f/1.4 Art | Σ 150-600 OS f/5-6.3 C | 430EX II

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EverydayGetaway
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Bowie, MD
Post has been edited over 1 year ago by EverydayGetaway.
Feb 02, 2016 10:19 |  #27

Submariner wrote in post #17880769 (external link)
I have always found a fresh install is faster. Heavens knows why? And past caring.

I have the same problem with my current system and huge 5DS R files. I have pretty much been ridiculed as I struggled as a novice to design a build that will not disappoint.

Many say I am crazy and dont need anything like the system I am building ....but note none of them have a 5DS R ;)


All my stuff comes this week :) hopefully.

Super-micro X10SRA MB, Xeon E51650 v3 6 core 40 Lane CPU 3.5 to 3.8 Turbo Ghz.
32GB EEC 2133 Ram, 512 Samsung 950 Pro M.2 PCIe SSD as an os and program, working file disk - Connected by an Asus Hyoer PCIe-M.2 adapter card, 512GB Samsung Evo 850 interim storage file, as I have one spare ex the converted laptop [I.e. Once finished editing I quickly copy the worjk tomthis to free the super fast samsung 950 Pro. Archive disk TBD?? possibly WE black 2 or 3TB ( currently an old wd blue 500GB Sata ... as I have it in a drawer) .
Phantek Evolv ATX case with Noctua 3x 140mm fans. Plus 2x Phantex 140mm stock fans comes with the case
Cooled by Noctua NH-D15 air cooler. And a MSI Gaming 970 GPU. Price under £2000.
4K HP 24" IPS 3840'x 2160 at 60Hz. glass screen monitor.

OP ... If you want to see how it pans out let me know by PM and I will tell you which elements worked out.... Assuming I can actually build a workstation???

Again, you are "crazy" and there was absolutely no reason to spend that much on a photo editing machine...

-dave-m- wrote in post #17882854 (external link)
My reply to Submariner had everything to do with a specific camera and that you don't need to spend thousands on server grade hardware to edit files from that camera.

Agreed, but good luck telling him that.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)

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RichSoansPhotos
Cream of the Crop
5,981 posts
Joined Aug 2007
London, UK
Feb 02, 2016 14:12 |  #28
banned

-dave-m- wrote in post #17882854 (external link)
My reply to Submariner had everything to do with a specific camera and that you don't need to spend thousands on server grade hardware to edit files from that camera.

It wasn't server grade upgrade I was telling him or he was asking, just a pc upgrade




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adamo99
Goldmember
Joined Mar 2007
Mississauga, ON
Feb 02, 2016 16:27 |  #29

KatManDEW wrote in post #17882158 (external link)
It hardware RIAD via the controllers on the motherboard.

But, I just looked up my motherboard online and it appears that only two of the SATA RAID controllers are SATA 6Gb/s and all the others are SATA 3Gb/s.
http://www.gigabyte.co​m ...uct-page.aspx?pid=3449#sp (external link)

So, it seems like that could be the main problem...

Does it make sense to try a RAID controller? The only ones I've seen for a reasonable price have a maximum of four ports. Models with more ports cost as much as a new motherboard/CPU and memory...

It's not real RAID. What you have is software based RAID, and most of the processing is done by the host CPU, which is only bogging your system down more. If you want a proper RAID controller, they're expensive, because it requires a CPU, memory, etc.

As I mentioned earlier, your best bet is to replace at least your system board/CPU combo. If you insist on running RAID, get a proper array controller. SSD drives are coming down in price, you're better off getting a 1Tb Samsung 850Pro, rather than mirroring a pair of spindle disks.

As you know, RAID1 does nothing for performace. You're only mirroring the two drives, so you're reading and writing the same data twice. The only way I'd use RAID is a RAID0 implementaion (striped, for performance), or RAID5 (combination of striping and parity, for redundancy).

Honestly, just get a big SSD drive, forget about RAID, and be diligent with your backups.




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-dave-m-
Senior Member
Joined Sep 2011
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Post has been edited over 1 year ago by -dave-m-.
Feb 02, 2016 18:48 |  #30

RichSoansPhotos wrote in post #17883361 (external link)
It wasn't server grade upgrade I was telling him or he was asking, just a pc upgrade

My comment was a direct reply to Submariner, it did not involve you or the OP. It involved Submariner trying to convince people you need server grade hardware to edit 5DS R files.


5D MkII Gripped | 7D MkII Gripped | 200 f/2.8L | 17-40 f/4L | Σ 24-105 OS f/4 Art | Σ 50 f/1.4 Art | Σ 150-600 OS f/5-6.3 C | 430EX II

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Upgrade PC or get a new one (for 5DsR photos)
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