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Thread started 28 Jan 2016 (Thursday) 13:28
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Upgrade PC or get a new one (for 5DsR photos)

 
skid00skid00
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Mar 03, 2016 14:08 as a reply to post 17922153 |  #46

With your settings:

psd: 66.79
psd again: 46.57 (might have been building previews alongside the first run?)
jpg: 52.67
jpg: 52.96
tiff: 45.96
dng: 10.11 that's TEN point one one!
psd: 46.59




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KatManDEW
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Mar 04, 2016 07:17 |  #47

skid00skid00 wrote in post #17922220 (external link)
With your settings:

psd: 66.79
psd again: 46.57 (might have been building previews alongside the first run?)
jpg: 52.67
jpg: 52.96
tiff: 45.96
dng: 10.11 that's TEN point one one!
psd: 46.59

Seems like we're in the same ball park.




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skid00skid00
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Mar 04, 2016 11:43 as a reply to KatManDEW's post |  #48

Good job. Now, can you overclock? There's a great guide at http://www.overclock.n​et/f/5/intel-cpus (external link)




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KatManDEW
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Mar 11, 2016 06:50 |  #49

skid00skid00 wrote in post #17923299 (external link)
Good job. Now, can you overclock? There's a great guide at http://www.overclock.n​et/f/5/intel-cpus (external link)

What kind of throughput increase do you think I would realize by overclocking?




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skid00skid00
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Mar 11, 2016 07:40 |  #50

KatManDEW wrote in post #17931439 (external link)
What kind of throughput increase do you think I would realize by overclocking?

I got 10% higher frequency on my latest chip, but a whopping 50% on the PC I built prior. It depends on the specific parts you get.




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KatManDEW
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Mar 24, 2016 12:18 |  #51

Update: One small BIOS tweak wiped out my system C: drive, and I had to reinstall Windows 7 vmad

I'm pretty much back up and running, but now the system won't shut down reliably. It usually goes to sleep (or hibernates) when I select Shut Down from the Start menu.

I've tried everything I can think of in Windows Power Options. And I checked everything in the BIOS that looks like it might be applicable. It didn't do this before I reinstalled Windows vmad

If I shut down, resulting in sleep/hibernate, and then wake it up and select Shut Down when Windows asks for my password, it will then shut down. If I go into power options and change any of the sleep settings and save it, and then change back to my original Power Options settings and save it, then it will usually shut down after I do that.

Anyone have any ideas what's going on?




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Submariner
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Mar 24, 2016 19:24 |  #52

absplastic wrote in post #17914516 (external link)
I wouldn't say you are being ridiculed, but I think people are right to ask for clarification because the system you describe yourself as having should be an absolute beast that eats 5DSR files for breakfast, burps, and says, "is that all you got?" It's better hardware than I have, and my system does not choke on 5DSR files in any way.

The photos from my most recent fashion shoot are all in the range of 53.1 to 63.8 MB RAW files right from the camera. Exported from Lightroom as PSD, they range from 236 to 301 MB, with the most compressible white cyclorama shots being the smallest. I'm using a laptop, which is a Macbook Pro Mid-2014, 2.5GHz i7 with 16GB of 1.6GHz DDR3 RAM, 512GB SSD, 3TB RAID 1 main storage, NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M available and enabled for OpenCL.

These 200-300 MB photoshop files open into Photoshop CC in under 1 second from either the SSD or Thunderbolt RAID. Slightly slower from USB 3.0 backup drive, as expected. Applying a Gaussian blur to an entire 5DSR file ranges from near instantaneous as makes no difference at small radii, to 6 seconds if I do the 1000 pixel radius maximum. The most complex liquify operation I've ever done took maybe 1 to 1.5 seconds to return a result, if that.

The only time I regularly encounter operations that take more than 1 second in normal usage are when applying 3rd party filters such as Imagenomic or MacPhun effects. It's possible that these don't leverage OpenCL or multiple cores as well as Adobe functions. Not sure. The other thing that I've seen take up to 10 seconds is saving out a multi-layered file, like if I save a portrait while I still have a dozen masked effect layers or frequency separation layers. These tend to be files upwards of 1 gigabyte, so I don't expect them to save instantly, but I feel like 5-10 seconds is pretty reasonable. For Lightroom CC to join 2 5DSR files together as a 100MP panorama is a 5 to 6 second operation. Again, not instant, but compared to how slowly HugIn rendered panoramas, this seems blazingly fast. On a fast desktop tower machine I would expect it could be twice as fast or faster.

When I moved from CS6 to CC, things got SO much faster. Kudos to Adobe, there are serious performance upgrades in these latest versions.

Just to qualify the new system is like grease lightning, booting is almost instantaneous.
Moving files is instant - everything I hoped for, and a ton more. Actually it exceeded my expectations by 400%.
Sadly I got a duff motherboard which is being replaced as I type.

But Im not put off , as it will be worth the wait. Core temps are about 36C to 37C so its hardly breaking sweat. Even the Intel diagnostic stress test showed it 48C UNDER THE CPUs max temp, and all the case fans hit a max of 350rpm. So very quiet, sometimes the Noctua cooler fans rise to 900 rpm for a few mins then subside back to 320 rpm
Basically its silent, except when you stress test it but 14db is still very quiet for the performance.

Oh and this is with a 4K Monitor - so far the MSI Gaming 970 sems to eatneverything thrown at it - photography wise - not done any gaming.

It seems to load the windows operating system from scatch in 3 mins including getting all the updates!
The limitation seems to be the time you interact with the loading like passwords for internet etc.

My performance problems were with the old i7 2630M laptop. That was dire - the healing brush could be 50 dabs in front of the screen.


Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

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EverydayGetaway
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Mar 24, 2016 20:26 |  #53

Submariner wrote in post #17947474 (external link)
Just to qualify the new system is like grease lightning, booting is almost instantaneous.
Moving files is instant - everything I hoped for, and a ton more. Actually it exceeded my expectations by 400%.
Sadly I got a duff motherboard which is being replaced as I type.

But Im not put off , as it will be worth the wait. Core temps are about 36C to 37C so its hardly breaking sweat. Even the Intel diagnostic stress test showed it 48C UNDER THE CPUs max temp, and all the case fans hit a max of 350rpm. So very quiet, sometimes the Noctua cooler fans rise to 900 rpm for a few mins then subside back to 320 rpm
Basically its silent, except when you stress test it but 14db is still very quiet for the performance.

Oh and this is with a 4K Monitor - so far the MSI Gaming 970 sems to eatneverything thrown at it - photography wise - not done any gaming.

It seems to load the windows operating system from scatch in 3 mins including getting all the updates!
The limitation seems to be the time you interact with the loading like passwords for internet etc.

My performance problems were with the old i7 2630M laptop. That was dire - the healing brush could be 50 dabs in front of the screen.

The thing is, you could've had an imperceivable difference in performance for far cheaper. But it's your build and your cash, so I'm happy that you're happy with it ;)


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)

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idkdc
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Mar 24, 2016 21:09 |  #54

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17947542 (external link)
The thing is, you could've had an imperceivable difference in performance for far cheaper. But it's your build and your cash, so I'm happy that you're happy with it ;)

You can't 4K for far cheaper. Until you feel the purr of a high end build, or the Rev of a nice nice car, or the sound of a strativarius violin, you really can't relate with each other.


1DIII through 1DXII(2) | 5D2-4 | 5DS | 8-800mm
XT2 | 16-140mm

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KatManDEW
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Mar 24, 2016 21:26 |  #55

absplastic wrote in post #17914516 (external link)
I wouldn't say you are being ridiculed, but I think people are right to ask for clarification because the system you describe yourself as having should be an absolute beast that eats 5DSR files for breakfast, burps, and says, "is that all you got?" It's better hardware than I have, and my system does not choke on 5DSR files in any way.

The photos from my most recent fashion shoot are all in the range of 53.1 to 63.8 MB RAW files right from the camera. Exported from Lightroom as PSD, they range from 236 to 301 MB, with the most compressible white cyclorama shots being the smallest. I'm using a laptop, which is a Macbook Pro Mid-2014, 2.5GHz i7 with 16GB of 1.6GHz DDR3 RAM, 512GB SSD, 3TB RAID 1 main storage, NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M available and enabled for OpenCL.

These 200-300 MB photoshop files open into Photoshop CC in under 1 second from either the SSD or Thunderbolt RAID. Slightly slower from USB 3.0 backup drive, as expected. Applying a Gaussian blur to an entire 5DSR file ranges from near instantaneous as makes no difference at small radii, to 6 seconds if I do the 1000 pixel radius maximum. The most complex liquify operation I've ever done took maybe 1 to 1.5 seconds to return a result, if that.

The only time I regularly encounter operations that take more than 1 second in normal usage are when applying 3rd party filters such as Imagenomic or MacPhun effects. It's possible that these don't leverage OpenCL or multiple cores as well as Adobe functions. Not sure. The other thing that I've seen take up to 10 seconds is saving out a multi-layered file, like if I save a portrait while I still have a dozen masked effect layers or frequency separation layers. These tend to be files upwards of 1 gigabyte, so I don't expect them to save instantly, but I feel like 5-10 seconds is pretty reasonable. For Lightroom CC to join 2 5DSR files together as a 100MP panorama is a 5 to 6 second operation. Again, not instant, but compared to how slowly HugIn rendered panoramas, this seems blazingly fast. On a fast desktop tower machine I would expect it could be twice as fast or faster.

When I moved from CS6 to CC, things got SO much faster. Kudos to Adobe, there are serious performance upgrades in these latest versions.

I'm jealous. My new mobo isn't anyway near that fast.




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Submariner
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Mar 24, 2016 21:52 |  #56

KatManDEW wrote in post #17947634 (external link)
I'm jealous. My new mobo isn't anyway near that fast.

Yeah but yours is not broken like mine :)

Maybe Tims right but as I couldnt find anyone who could scientifically tell me which bits make it fast - for an extra £500
I got:-
40 PCIe electrical lanes
32 GB ram. ( note the whole shoot can go in ram)
6 Cores
ECC Ram
And those super fast PCIe NVME discs, someone said they are 4.5 times faster than my interim backup Samsung Evo 850s. And I would say it feels like it.

Call it insurance, I dont know which bits really make it super fast.

As far as I am concerened if I had saved £500 and put it on deposit, Lloyds are only paying 0.7% so thats less than £5 per annum interest! So defo worth it.

But all this depends on the replacement MB running reliably.


Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

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EverydayGetaway
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Mar 24, 2016 22:29 |  #57

idkdc wrote in post #17947609 (external link)
You can't 4K for far cheaper. Until you feel the purr of a high end build, or the Rev of a nice nice car, or the sound of a strativarius violin, you really can't relate with each other.

Yeah, you most definitely can...

Also, the OP never mentioned anything about 4K other than the screen resolution, which could be powered by the lowest end GPUs.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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RHChan84
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Mar 24, 2016 23:06 |  #58

Reading this makes me want to build my own PC again.

But that is a lot of power for me. I wouldnt even OC since I don't see a 10% performance gain is worth it. I would stick with the latest I7 and that's it. I would do maybe water cool and not for high heat but instead, less dust inside the computer tower.

4k is pretty easy for GPU these days even the Intel integrated ones on the latest I series processors. I have the Surface Pro 3 with HD4400 and I remember it was able to handle 4K.


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KatManDEW
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Mar 25, 2016 05:14 |  #59

RHChan84 wrote in post #17947735 (external link)
Reading this makes me want to build my own PC again.

But that is a lot of power for me. I wouldnt even OC since I don't see a 10% performance gain is worth it. I would stick with the latest I7 and that's it. I would do maybe water cool and not for high heat but instead, less dust inside the computer tower.

4k is pretty easy for GPU these days even the Intel integrated ones on the latest I series processors. I have the Surface Pro 3 with HD4400 and I remember it was able to handle 4K.

I agree on the 10% performance gain and the dust inside the tower.




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Submariner
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by Submariner. 7 edits done in total.
Mar 25, 2016 06:58 |  #60

KatManDEW wrote in post #17947873 (external link)
I agree on the 10% performance gain and the dust inside the tower.

ATM I cant see any reason for overclocking for my requirements, I think the NVMe discs solve all the performance issues.
As for water cooling, thats too scary for me; and the Noctua D15 is superb. Noise wise multiple fans at low rpms mean its exceptionally quiet.

But the dust issue, thats a real worry.... i just hope that keeping a positive air pressure will keep it down, and I have kept the pc interior clear by using small SSDs flat on the case side. So hopefully I can blow it out regularly.

One thing I dont see is just how much cheaper people say you could do it for. £2,100 seemed fairly reasonable. Sure I didnt need to swap out the fans for quiet Noctuas and buy 3 more fans but £78 seemed OK for that.
Yes one could go the i7 route and save about £200, and save £122 and have 16GB of ram, and save £100 and not have PCIe SSDs. So about £500 overspend. But its still £1000 less than buying one of those iMacs with nowhere near the performance or future flexibility. Since then, I have discovered that the SM MB will be able to take the new E5 Ver 4 processors :)
So buy one of those for £400, and sell the current one say circa £200; and it might cost me circa £200 for an historical upgrade of 20% power. TBH I cant ever envisage ever needing more cpu power ATM.

Photo of clear case interior with 1.5mm polished stainless steel panels on the right hand side, to mount interim backup SSDs on
Note only the vertical one is currently mounted - the second ( to be cannibalised from my Laptop before selling it ) has yet to be fitted on the silicone pads on the horizontal 2.5mm thick plate ( this replaced a flimsy .7mm steel affair) .

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One the reverse side you can see all the cable holes (on the left hand side) for the standard SSD mounting caddies - which rattled and the horizontal disc mounts also restricted the airflow. You can see through the holes the back of the stainless steel sheet. This really braces the rear wall - so no tinny rattling noises, where there were 7 plastic hole cover plates that were only secured by 1 screw. :)

And yes it cost me about £30, thanks to the great service from Material 4 me ( any one need details pm me - they were great) who cut the plates perfectly to size. All I had to do was drill the holes. A 2 hour job!

I think it looks nicer, helps airflow and really braces the rear wall of the case, add solid 3mm aluminium top and sides of the Phanteks case and its now imo a really great solid, quiet case. As for over spending, the case cost £119 from Overclockers .. Delivered, add £30 for the stainless steel, and £78 to swap out the fans and add 3 more. So £220 less maybe sell the 3 new std. Fans for £2o means a net spend of £200. I am sure some folks will say you could have done it for £100! :)

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My only regret was the stress of building a "first" pc with such expensive parts. And of course moving out of the mainstream by going Xeon ... I.e Not so many users pushing a supplier, if there is a problem. So there was a 2 week delay as I ( totally unskilled with the knowledge needed) , had to discover , and then convince Supermicro to replace it.
But I understand it now, and they are replacing it. So eventually it should be fine, and worth it for 40 PCIe lanes, cool running, 6 cores and ECC Ram, and the alleged "Server" Quality MB.

But only time will tell.

Incidentally I have met 3 other 5DS R users who are sufferring performance issues due to the immense file sizes. We are all in agreement, that it requires something special!

Naturally a massive "THANK YOU" to all the kind people on this forum, who helped me through this nightmare learning curve - from zero knowledge to ... Well getting lightning performance.

Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

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Upgrade PC or get a new one (for 5DsR photos)
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