Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS News & Rumors Lens Rumors and Predictions
Thread started 08 May 2016 (Sunday) 19:18
Prev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

I predict that a 500 f/5.6 or 600 f/5.6 will come out in next few years

 
buddy4344
Goldmember
Joined Nov 2006
Allentown, PA
May 08, 2016 19:18 |  #1

Okay, I don't know where this post should go. I have heard no rumors, so I'm starting one. With the 1Dx MkII being so much better on higher ISO in combination with the 100-400 ver 2 being so sharp, the value of the 200-400 has plummeted as has the re-sale on the Ver 1 Canon 400mm DO. This tells me that with ISO flexibility and sharper glass and focusing many could easily live with f/5.6 at 400mm.

If this is the case, I would argue the 500 f/5.6 or 600mm f/5.6 would be quickly accepted as it would be significantly lighter than the f/4 options and with the ability to push iso, it could allow adequate shutter speed in most situations (since the 1-4 v2 obviously does).

Just a thought on a Sunday night.


Buddy4344

Gear: Canon 1Dx MkII, 7D MkII, Canon Lenses: 100 macro, 100-400 Ver.IIL IS, 24-105L IS, Canon 17-40, Canon 1.4x TCon, Rokinon 14mm. Kenko extension tubes, Kenko 1.4x pro TCon.and Kiboko 30L and 22L+

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
CyberDyneSystems
Admin (type T-2000)
CyberDyneSystems's Avatar
47,719 posts
Gallery: 78 photos
Joined Apr 2003
Rhode Island USA
Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by CyberDyneSystems. 2 edits done in total.
May 08, 2016 19:34 |  #2

Correct place, not just Rumors, also "predictions" :)

It could be. The 600mm f/5.6 would physically weigh pretty much exactly what a 300mm f/2.8 weighs, with the same diameter front element.

A 500mm f/5.6 can apparently be pretty small. If it's D.O., (diffractive optics) it's smaller than a 400mm f/4 DO! If it's not "DO" it would be lighter than a 200mm f/2, with a smaller front element.

With the Zooms being as good as they are, and the trend towards them (Nikon 500mm zoom, and the SIGMA and TAMRON 600mm zooms) I wonder if Canon would go with a lighter prime?

I would have been all over the Primes a few years ago, but now that I've seen what they can do with the 100-400mm II I don't know.


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
LV ­ Moose
Moose gets blamed for everything.
LV Moose's Avatar
Joined Dec 2008
Hangin' with the Muffins at the Moose Mosque
Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by LV Moose. 2 edits done in total.
May 08, 2016 19:35 |  #3

Your prediction is 57 years late. There was a Canon 600 f/5.6 I in 1958. ;-)a

If you want something newer, the updated II came out in 1960.

The 500mm f/5.6 came out in 1969.


Moose

Gear... Flickr (external link)...Macro (external link)...Hummingbirds (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
Bassat's Avatar
6,597 posts
Joined Oct 2015
Bourbon, Indiana - USA
May 08, 2016 19:36 |  #4

My reaction is: "Why bother?" There are already two inexpensive, high-quality f/6.3 150-600mm zooms on the market. If the new lens is priced to compete with the current zooms, who would choose a prime that long over a zoom. If premium IQ is the goal, there are already very good 500mm & 600mm primes in Canon's lineup. Canon is not going to kill sales of current glass to introduce a loss leader.


Tom

LOG IN TO REPLY
buddy4344
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Joined Nov 2006
Allentown, PA
May 08, 2016 19:36 |  #5

LV Moose wrote in post #18000367 (external link)
Your prediction is 57 years late. There was a Canon 600 f/5.6 I in 1958. ;-)a

If you want something newer, the updated II came out in 1960.

okay a version 3 with 5 stop IS.


Buddy4344

Gear: Canon 1Dx MkII, 7D MkII, Canon Lenses: 100 macro, 100-400 Ver.IIL IS, 24-105L IS, Canon 17-40, Canon 1.4x TCon, Rokinon 14mm. Kenko extension tubes, Kenko 1.4x pro TCon.and Kiboko 30L and 22L+

LOG IN TO REPLY
LV ­ Moose
Moose gets blamed for everything.
LV Moose's Avatar
Joined Dec 2008
Hangin' with the Muffins at the Moose Mosque
May 08, 2016 19:39 |  #6

sign me up.


Moose

Gear... Flickr (external link)...Macro (external link)...Hummingbirds (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
MalVeauX's Avatar
Joined Feb 2013
Florida
May 08, 2016 19:39 |  #7

Heya,

I actually don't think Canon is going to step down their super tele game. It's one of their biggest highlights. Slower entry telephoto primes can be nice for consumers on a budget, but they don't do what the F2.8 and F4 super beasts do. I make this prediction based on Canon not even worried about the 150-600's hitting the market, and they just reboot their 100-400 II instead, as well as the lack of cheaper zooms, etc. Instead of rebooting a cheaper zoom, they release the 100-400 II at twice the price. And it sells.

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
Bassat's Avatar
6,597 posts
Joined Oct 2015
Bourbon, Indiana - USA
May 08, 2016 19:40 |  #8

buddy4344 wrote in post #18000369 (external link)
okay a version 3 with 5 stop IS.

A 600mm f/5.6 with 5 stops of IS? Shut off the IS on the $989 Sigma C, and put it on a tripod. All the IS you need. No charge.


Tom

LOG IN TO REPLY
buddy4344
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Joined Nov 2006
Allentown, PA
May 08, 2016 19:42 |  #9

Bassat wrote in post #18000368 (external link)
My reaction is: "Why bother?" There are already two inexpensive, high-quality f/6.3 150-600mm zooms on the market. If the new lens is priced to compete with the current zooms, who would choose a prime that long over a zoom. If premium IQ is the goal, there are already very good 500mm & 600mm primes in Canon's lineup. Canon is not going to kill sales of current glass to introduce a loss leader.

I've edited images by others on the Tamron. It is not in the league with Canon 500 or 600 prime whereas the 100-400 ver 2 definitely is. I've also used the older Sigma and was not impressed.

The prime at 5.6 would be lighter and hopefully sharper. The existing 500 and 600 are still quite heavy and cumbersome to use. I can hand hold the 500 ver II but it's a chore to really hold up for a long while.

Regarding 'killing sales of current glass', they have sort of done that. The re-sale price of the 200-400 fell over $1,000 once folks started shootng the 100-400 ver II, but the number of 1-4 sales took off. Yes, the NFL sideline guys still shoot the 200-400 as well as the 400 f/2.8, but that is not the larger market.


Buddy4344

Gear: Canon 1Dx MkII, 7D MkII, Canon Lenses: 100 macro, 100-400 Ver.IIL IS, 24-105L IS, Canon 17-40, Canon 1.4x TCon, Rokinon 14mm. Kenko extension tubes, Kenko 1.4x pro TCon.and Kiboko 30L and 22L+

LOG IN TO REPLY
buddy4344
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Joined Nov 2006
Allentown, PA
May 08, 2016 19:48 |  #10

Another reason I see the shift is the huge rise in folks using the Olympus OM-D 4/3 sensors. It's gotten more acceptance than expected due to the lighter weight and easier travel size. The baby boomers are aging and the plus 60f crowd doesn't like lifting heavy glass.

btw, I live in Allentown, PA, which is the U.S. HQ for Olympus so I'm seeing tons of shots with their new 300 f/4 (which is 600mm equivalent) and I'm amazed how sharp images are. That lens actually electronically connects the in-lens IS with the IS body stabilization to give 5 stops of IS.


Buddy4344

Gear: Canon 1Dx MkII, 7D MkII, Canon Lenses: 100 macro, 100-400 Ver.IIL IS, 24-105L IS, Canon 17-40, Canon 1.4x TCon, Rokinon 14mm. Kenko extension tubes, Kenko 1.4x pro TCon.and Kiboko 30L and 22L+

LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
Tom Reichner's Avatar
Joined Dec 2008
Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
May 09, 2016 15:07 |  #11

Bassat wrote in post #18000368 (external link)
If premium IQ is the goal, there are already very good 500mm & 600mm primes in Canon's lineup. Canon is not going to kill sales of current glass to introduce a loss leader.

I think that with this statement, you really explained the crux of the issue.

Canon needs to make sure that if they introduce a 500 or 600mm f5.6 lens, that it does not steal any sales away from the $10,000+ f4 versions.

As we have seen with the popularity of the third party 150-600mm zooms, there are a lot of people who want the reach of a 500mm or 600mm lens without having to pay $10,000 to get it.
Canon's job is to make sure that they can't get $10,000 performance for less than $10,000.
So, they will have to figure out ways to cripple the lens so that people who are real nit-picky about image quality and performance are not able to "cheap out" by getting a f5.6 version.
When Canon does offer a 500mm or 600mm f5.6 lens, I don't think it will be an "L" quality lens.

If they were up to true "L" standards, they would probably cost $4,000 or thereabouts, which would really hurt the sales of the current $10,000+ super telephotos.
It'd be better for Canon's profits for them to make a flimsy non-L version for around $2,000 - I don't think that would hurt the sales of the huge whites very much.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "peace of mind", NOT "piece of mind".

LOG IN TO REPLY
buddy4344
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Joined Nov 2006
Allentown, PA
May 09, 2016 15:46 |  #12

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18001368 (external link)
I think that with this statement, you really explained the crux of the issue.

Canon needs to make sure that if they introduce a 500 or 600mm f5.6 lens, that it does not steal any sales away from the $10,000+ f4 versions.

As we have seen with the popularity of the third party 150-600mm zooms, there are a lot of people who want the reach of a 500mm or 600mm lens without having to pay $10,000 to get it.
Canon's job is to make sure that they can't get $10,000 performance for less than $10,000.
So, they will have to figure out ways to cripple the lens so that people who are real nit-picky about image quality and performance are not able to "cheap out" by getting a f5.6 version.
When Canon does offer a 500mm or 600mm f5.6 lens, I don't think it will be an "L" quality lens.

If they were up to true "L" standards, they would probably cost $4,000 or thereabouts, which would really hurt the sales of the current $10,000+ super telephotos.
It'd be better for Canon's profits for them to make a flimsy non-L version for around $2,000 - I don't think that would hurt the sales of the huge whites very much.

.

First and foremost, Canon needs to retain Canon customers. Secondly, they need them to move up market. As I noted, they are losing some folks due to the need for lighter weight glass, but still getting reach.

Regarding the nit-picky, image quality folks. I think the f/4 lens and f/2.8 lens families will always have a preferred bokeh and almost 3D feel vs. a f/5.6 lens.


Buddy4344

Gear: Canon 1Dx MkII, 7D MkII, Canon Lenses: 100 macro, 100-400 Ver.IIL IS, 24-105L IS, Canon 17-40, Canon 1.4x TCon, Rokinon 14mm. Kenko extension tubes, Kenko 1.4x pro TCon.and Kiboko 30L and 22L+

LOG IN TO REPLY
smythie
I wasn't even trying
Joined Jun 2009
Sydney - Australia
Post has been edited over 1 year ago by smythie.
May 11, 2016 00:29 |  #13

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18001368 (external link)
I think that with this statement, you really explained the crux of the issue.

Canon needs to make sure that if they introduce a 500 or 600mm f5.6 lens, that it does not steal any sales away from the $10,000+ f4 versions.

As we have seen with the popularity of the third party 150-600mm zooms, there are a lot of people who want the reach of a 500mm or 600mm lens without having to pay $10,000 to get it.
Canon's job is to make sure that they can't get $10,000 performance for less than $10,000.
So, they will have to figure out ways to cripple the lens so that people who are real nit-picky about image quality and performance are not able to "cheap out" by getting a f5.6 version.
When Canon does offer a 500mm or 600mm f5.6 lens, I don't think it will be an "L" quality lens.

If they were up to true "L" standards, they would probably cost $4,000 or thereabouts, which would really hurt the sales of the current $10,000+ super telephotos.
It'd be better for Canon's profits for them to make a flimsy non-L version for around $2,000 - I don't think that would hurt the sales of the huge whites very much.

.

A rather short sighted viewpoint. Better to disrupt yourself than allow others to do it. And if they're already doing it, you're better off getting in on the action yourself.

There are two distinct markets for that focal length: 1) amateurs and 2) agencies, pros and well funded enthusiasts.

Canon has three current lenses that fit the first market (the 400/5.6L, 70-300L and 100-400L mk2). If you want a Canon lens longer than 400mm without using a TC you need be forking out 4 to 5 times the price of the 100-400 mk2. That's not sound marketing strategy IMO.

That the 100-400 Mk2 has managed to steal some of the market segment from the 150-600 offerings out there is more testament to its IQ and brand name. There is definitely opportunity there for Canon to build a 500 or 600 prime at f/5.6 or a zoom like Nikon's recent 200-500 and dominate that segment. I believe such a lens would sell very well at 1.5 to 2 times the cost of the 100-400 if it offered similar IQ. Give it an extending barrel like the 70-300 and new 100-400 (reducing engineering complexity and weight).

The benefit is that you have created a stepping stone for lens purchase: 55-250-> 70-300L -> 100-400 -> 500/600 f/5.6 option (whatever that happens to be) -> 500/600 f/4 or 800/5.6L.

With the 80D and 7D2 now offering AF with max apertures of f/8 an 800/8 at around 2-3x the price of the 100-400 mk2 would be a smashing option for the market


Gear List

LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
Tom Reichner's Avatar
Joined Dec 2008
Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
May 11, 2016 17:16 |  #14

smythie wrote in post #18003186 (external link)
A rather short sighted viewpoint.

If that is what you have to say to me, then I think you misunderstood my post.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "peace of mind", NOT "piece of mind".

LOG IN TO REPLY
smythie
I wasn't even trying
Joined Jun 2009
Sydney - Australia
May 11, 2016 17:26 |  #15

Ok, my understanding of your post can be summarised as "Canon should/would not produce this type of lens because it might hurt sales of their current big whites"? Is that correct?


Gear List

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

8,404 views & 24 likes for this thread
I predict that a 500 f/5.6 or 600 f/5.6 will come out in next few years
FORUMS News & Rumors Lens Rumors and Predictions


Not a member yet? Click here to register to the forums.
Registered members get all the features: search, following threads, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, settings, view hosted photos, own reviews and more...


AAA

Send feedback to staff    •   Jump to forum...    •   Rules    •   Index    •   New posts    •   RTAT    •   'Best of'    •   Gallery    •   Gear    •   Reviews    •   Polls

COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Privacy policy and cookie usage info.

POWERED BY AMASS 1.4version 1.4
made in Finland
by Pekka Saarinen
for photography-on-the.net
Spent 0.001 for 4 database queries.
PAGE COMPLETED IN 0.08s
Latest registered member is rodney18
957 guests, 409 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6106, that happened on Jun 09, 2016