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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands
Thread started 30 Jun 2016 (Thursday) 02:28
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Canon or Nikon (Fair Comparison)

 
Ah-keong
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Ah-keong.
Jun 30, 2016 02:28 |  #1

I was discussing with a photographer in Japan and one this topic extended our discussion(debate).
Do add in your expert opinions if you think that I have left out or missed out.

Here goes!

Introduction:
Many beginners (like me) used to wonder what is the difference between Canon and Nikon when they are getting a D-SLR. I would like to make a "fair" comparison between the styles/characteristics of Canon and Nikon.

1. For AF (Autofocus), Canon is faster. However, Nikon is more accurate.
Comment: For sports / action related photography, Canon has higher chance of getting the frames but Nikon has higher chance of getting the shots.

2. Nikon is strong in the "blacks", Canon is strong in the "whites"
Comment: I believe this could be due to the DR (Dynamic Range) of the sensors used. For portraiture related photography, Canon has a better rendering of the skin tones. However, Nikon has a better rendering of the hair tones. (See D4 vs 1DX)

D4
http://imgsv.imaging.n​ikon.com ...4/img/sample/img_05​_l.jpg (external link)

1DX
https://lh6.googleuser​content.com .../6l0NtPrT6kE/s800/0​01.jpg (external link)


Canon 7D Mark II | BG-E16 | Canon EF-S 10-18mm | Sigma DC 18-35mm ART |
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Olympus E-PL3 | M.Zuiko ED 7-14mm PRO
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Ah-keong
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Jun 30, 2016 02:46 |  #2

3. Nikon entry level prime glass are better than Canon entry level primes
Comment: Other than Canon's 50mm STM f/1.8, Nikon's primes are newer and better compared to Canon's primes released in say 1995?

4. Nikon is more "rugged" than Canon
Comment: I believe this could be due to the fact that historically, Nikon started building military specs equipment while Canon started from commercial / industrial specs equipment.

Summary:
Primarily, depending on the usage and application you are in. One would be a greater tool better than the other. One can consider other like Fujifilm / Leica / Sigma.

I know one photographer who uses Nikon for landscapes primarily while using Canon for wedding photography.

Happy choosing! :D


Canon 7D Mark II | BG-E16 | Canon EF-S 10-18mm | Sigma DC 18-35mm ART |
Canon Speedlite 430EX III-RT |
Olympus E-PL3 | M.Zuiko ED 7-14mm PRO
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Left Handed Brisket.
Jun 30, 2016 02:48 |  #3

how much had you and your buddy had to drink? :P

nikon was very lucky to be able to use Sony's sensors for the last few years, other than that it is hardly worth the effort ... well outside of beer talk.

i bought into canon because the used lens market was pretty strong and I didn't want to have to spend a fortune on lenses. I've done a wide variety of shooting with three bodies and can't really complain.

so what are you drinking? Dale's Pale Ale over here.

cheers


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 2x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

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Ah-keong
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Ah-keong.
Jun 30, 2016 03:05 as a reply to Left Handed Brisket's post |  #4

Asahi over here!

Well, its a never ending debate so I (a Canon shooter) try to defend Nikon, while she (a Nikon/Sony shooter) try to defend Canon.

Statistically speaking, I think there are more Canon shooters than Nikon shooters based on market share but I must say both have pros and cons.

I was wondering if like in the film days where the film is independent, imagine regardless of the shooter using a Nikon or Canon body or any body(Fujifilm/Olympus/​Leica/etc), just slot in the digital sensor(Sony) and shoot! :D

IMAGE: https://www.asahibeer.com/images/index_bg_001.jpg

Canon 7D Mark II | BG-E16 | Canon EF-S 10-18mm | Sigma DC 18-35mm ART |
Canon Speedlite 430EX III-RT |
Olympus E-PL3 | M.Zuiko ED 7-14mm PRO
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Kolor-Pikker
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Jun 30, 2016 09:01 |  #5

Ah-keong wrote in post #18053935 (external link)
1. For AF (Autofocus), Canon is faster. However, Nikon is more accurate.
Comment: For sports / action related photography, Canon has higher chance of getting the frames but Nikon has higher chance of getting the shots.

Debatable. Modern sports DSLRs feature so many AF parameters, most photographers don't even bother setting them up, or refer to cheat sheets used by others. Depending on how you have it set up, your environment, subject and other factors could make a certain camera seem superior... or not. All modern AF systems are incredibly good, and if you're missing shots, it's likely your fault, otherwise they're within a hair's split within another. Considering the 1DX2 can shoot at 14fps, it's a miracle that it can find the time to focus at all.

2. Nikon is strong in the "blacks", Canon is strong in the "whites"
Comment: I believe this could be due to the DR (Dynamic Range) of the sensors used. For portraiture related photography, Canon has a better rendering of the skin tones. However, Nikon has a better rendering of the hair tones. (See D4 vs 1DX)

Sony sensors (which Nikon often makes use of) typically have a very wide dynamic range, but are also set up with the saturation point close to the histogram's edge, meaning that you really do not what to ETTR with these cameras, just ensure the highlights are not in the red, and you can push the shadows as much as you want.
Canon is more reasonable with this and has set the gray point of their sensors closer to the actual mid point of the dynamic range, meaning both the shadows and highlights extend equally past the visible range depicted on the histo.
Frankly, both companies should just offer a Raw histogram option, and remove all doubt about where and how much of your dynamic range is being utilized, rather than leaving users to guess.

Ah-keong wrote in post #18053939 (external link)
3. Nikon entry level prime glass are better than Canon entry level primes
Comment: Other than Canon's 50mm STM f/1.8, Nikon's primes are newer and better compared to Canon's primes released in say 1995?

Probably... low-end glass isn't something that interests me  :p
As far as high-end lenses go, Canon definitely has the more interesting options, as well as some unique options Nikon simply doesn't, like the 5x macro. The 17/24mm TS-E lenses are legendary. Some similar lenses across the two makers are superior in the Canon variant, like the 70-200 2.8 IS II, which does not have the close focus problem of the Nikon variant.

4. Nikon is more "rugged" than Canon
Comment: I believe this could be due to the fact that historically, Nikon started building military specs equipment while Canon started from commercial / industrial specs equipment.

Any mid-range & up DSLR is going to be more rugged than most people can hope to damage them. I'm sure most people have seen that DRTV video where Kai wrecks a 7D in every way possible (including freezing it in ice and then burning it) and it still works. The high-end cams are built even tougher, which probably means they could stop a bullet.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

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Ah-keong
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Ah-keong.
Jun 30, 2016 21:59 |  #6

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #18054125 (external link)
Debatable. Modern sports DSLRs feature so many AF parameters, most photographers don't even bother setting them up, or refer to cheat sheets used by others. Depending on how you have it set up, your environment, subject and other factors could make a certain camera seem superior... or not. All modern AF systems are incredibly good, and if you're missing shots, it's likely your fault, otherwise they're within a hair's split within another. Considering the 1DX2 can shoot at 14fps, it's a miracle that it can find the time to focus at all.

To a large extent, I agree. I see the body as a tool of controls where setup is crucial when shooting for action. Gratitude to the developers and designers at Canon where they try to aid the users(shooters) to group into 6 cases. I believe the R&D has studied many scenarios and try to group them into 6 AF templates. Other settings are made adjustable so as to customize the AF monster to suit your environment of shooting.

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #18054125 (external link)
Sony sensors (which Nikon often makes use of) typically have a very wide dynamic range, but are also set up with the saturation point close to the histogram's edge, meaning that you really do not what to ETTR with these cameras, just ensure the highlights are not in the red, and you can push the shadows as much as you want.
Canon is more reasonable with this and has set the gray point of their sensors closer to the actual mid point of the dynamic range, meaning both the shadows and highlights extend equally past the visible range depicted on the histo.
Frankly, both companies should just offer a Raw histogram option, and remove all doubt about where and how much of your dynamic range is being utilized, rather than leaving users to guess.

This is a good idea, customizing the utilization of the dynamic range so that the user can choose to compromise one end for the other end.

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #18054125 (external link)
Probably... low-end glass isn't something that interests me  :p
As far as high-end lenses go, Canon definitely has the more interesting options, as well as some unique options Nikon simply doesn't, like the 5x macro. The 17/24mm TS-E lenses are legendary. Some similar lenses across the two makers are superior in the Canon variant, like the 70-200 2.8 IS II, which does not have the close focus problem of the Nikon variant.

To a large extent, I agree with you. I feel the Nikon 70-200 kinda lose out to the Canon 70-200. However, as a Canon shooter, I would like Canon to update the entry level primes. I believe the 50mm STM is a good and timely update, I wish that the 85mm f/1.8 would have a update when I save enough to buy one for my next project.

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #18054125 (external link)
Any mid-range & up DSLR is going to be more rugged than most people can hope to damage them. I'm sure most people have seen that DRTV video where Kai wrecks a 7D in every way possible (including freezing it in ice and then burning it) and it still works. The high-end cams are built even tougher, which probably means they could stop a bullet.

I would say it depends. I have read many wedding photographers experience some malfunction of some kind on the prosumer bodys. Mirror falling out of the 5D mark II.
Generally, in my opinion, if you compare the same class of body across Canon(70D) & Nikon(D7100). Generally, Nikon body is more "rugged"


Canon 7D Mark II | BG-E16 | Canon EF-S 10-18mm | Sigma DC 18-35mm ART |
Canon Speedlite 430EX III-RT |
Olympus E-PL3 | M.Zuiko ED 7-14mm PRO
Manfrotto BeFree Travel Tripod |
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Jun 30, 2016 22:55 |  #7

Ah-keong wrote in post #18054747 (external link)
I would say it depends. I have read many wedding photographers experience some malfunction of some kind on the prosumer bodys. Mirror falling out of the 5D mark II.
Generally, in my opinion, if you compare the same class of body across Canon(70D) & Nikon(D7100). Generally, Nikon body is more "rugged"

i would like to see some statistics on that.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 2x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

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Ah-keong
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Ah-keong.
Jul 01, 2016 04:12 as a reply to Left Handed Brisket's post |  #8

just a few...
but I must say, my friend's 5D2 is still working fine.... :D

http://petapixel.com ...r-from-mirror-separation/ (external link)

http://www.prophotosho​w.net ...lens-falling-off-problem/ (external link)

https://blog.kareldonk​.com ...mark-ii-camera-from-hell/ (external link)

http://captainkimo.com ...rror-problem-it-fell-off/ (external link)


Canon 7D Mark II | BG-E16 | Canon EF-S 10-18mm | Sigma DC 18-35mm ART |
Canon Speedlite 430EX III-RT |
Olympus E-PL3 | M.Zuiko ED 7-14mm PRO
Manfrotto BeFree Travel Tripod |
Tenba DNA 15 Messenger | Think Tank Photo Digital Holster 40v2.0 | Speed Changer v2.0

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raptor3x
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Rutland, VT
Jul 01, 2016 09:52 |  #9

Ah-keong wrote in post #18053935 (external link)
1. For AF (Autofocus), Canon is faster. However, Nikon is more accurate.
Comment: For sports / action related photography, Canon has higher chance of getting the frames but Nikon has higher chance of getting the shots.

This may have been true at one point but when using newer Canon lenses with newer Canon bodies (not sure if this applies to the lower end bodies yet) the Canon AF is significantly more precise (external link) than in Nikon bodies. The caveat being that I haven't seen any data regarding this for the D5/D500 so Nikon may have made some strides in this regard in order to catch up to Canon.


Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii Lenses: µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 45 1.2, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, Z 150 2.0, µ.Z 300 4.0

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gjl711
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Jul 01, 2016 10:11 |  #10

Ah-keong wrote in post #18054747 (external link)
.... I have read many wedding photographers experience some malfunction of some kind on the prosumer bodys. Mirror falling out of the 5D mark II.
Generally, in my opinion, if you compare the same class of body across Canon(70D) & Nikon(D7100). Generally, Nikon body is more "rugged"

The mirror problem was with the original 5D. The 5DII has not had a mirror problem. With the classic, it was recognized as a manufacturing fault and Canon had a program to repair it for free.


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I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
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Canon_Shoe
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Jul 01, 2016 17:39 |  #11

I've owned 4 Canon bodies (60D, 5D2, 5D3, 6D), and just recently switched to the Nikon D810 for the dynamic range as I'm a landscape shooter. The Sony sensors absolutely are night and day better than Canons I will say and my D810 is far more customizable than my Canon bodies. Even though it took a bit to get used to, I prefer Nikon's ergonomics now other the lens attaching backwards(still seems weird). Downside of Nikon is their LCD screens are not as good as Canon's and the D810 is a heavy beast. Lenses seem about the same to me, the 14-24 is an amazing lens for what I do and about the only lens I miss is the 135L. It's been a great switch so far and the image quality difference was more than worth it. Excited to see the next round of Sony sensors and what they offer :)


Facebook-- http://www.facebook.co​m/AndrewShoemakerPhoto​graphy (external link)
Website----http://andrewshoemaker​photography.com/ (external link)
Nikon D810, Nikon 14-24, Nikon 24-70 F/2.8 VR, Nikon 70-200 VR II

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idkdc
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Jul 01, 2016 18:01 |  #12

Canon_Shoe wrote in post #18055392 (external link)
I've owned 4 Canon bodies (60D, 5D2, 5D3, 6D), and just recently switched to the Nikon D810 for the dynamic range as I'm a landscape shooter. The Sony sensors absolutely are night and day better than Canons I will say and my D810 is far more customizable than my Canon bodies. Even though it took a bit to get used to, I prefer Nikon's ergonomics now other the lens attaching backwards(still seems weird). Downside of Nikon is their LCD screens are not as good as Canon's and the D810 is a heavy beast. Lenses seem about the same to me, the 14-24 is an amazing lens for what I do and about the only lens I miss is the 135L. It's been a great switch so far and the image quality difference was more than worth it. Excited to see the next round of Sony sensors and what they offer :)

1DX2 sensor changes that. Expect Canon sensors from now on across the board to improve to be on par with competing current gen sensors, well within marginal differences.

Back to the OP, I think Canon does better than Nikon because of customer support and CPS in the US. Canon's targetting refreshes of their high end lenses while Nikon is mainly targetting their 1.8 budget (mid-level) primes right now. I have always had a better experience with AF on the 5D3/1DX and newer cameras, although I have not tried the D500 or D5 at a real shoot. They look like swell cameras, but I do find their new high end primes lacking in sharpness and quality despite being priced significantly more sometimes.


1DIII through 1DXII(2) | 5D2-4 | 5DS | 8-800mm
XT2 | 16-140mm

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Canon_Shoe
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by Canon_Shoe. 2 edits done in total.
Jul 01, 2016 18:19 as a reply to idkdc's post |  #13

I mean the 1DX2 is a big leap in the right direction for Canon, but as a landscape shooter, it's still behind the 4 year old D800 platform in dynamic range and resolution. It's an sports/wildlife camera so I know the MP have to be lower to shoot 15fps or whatever it is. I do think Canon did a better job on the 1DX2 than Nikon did on the D5 image quality wise. Age old argument Canon vs Nikon :) I like them both.....I mean my handle is Canon_Shoe and I shoot Nikon now ;)


Facebook-- http://www.facebook.co​m/AndrewShoemakerPhoto​graphy (external link)
Website----http://andrewshoemaker​photography.com/ (external link)
Nikon D810, Nikon 14-24, Nikon 24-70 F/2.8 VR, Nikon 70-200 VR II

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idkdc
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by idkdc. 2 edits done in total.
Jul 01, 2016 18:45 |  #14

Canon_Shoe wrote in post #18055425 (external link)
I mean the 1DX2 is a big leap in the right direction for Canon, but as a landscape shooter, it's still behind the 4 year old D800 platform in dynamic range and resolution. It's an sports/wildlife camera so I know the MP have to be lower to shoot 15fps or whatever it is. I do think Canon did a better job on the 1DX2 than Nikon did on the D5 image quality wise. Age old argument Canon vs Nikon :) I like them both.....I mean my handle is Canon_Shoe and I shoot Nikon now ;)

I think the difference in sensor is negligable to me right now. The D810 is a solid camera, but there is really no need for me to invest further into Nikon for other reasons.


1DIII through 1DXII(2) | 5D2-4 | 5DS | 8-800mm
XT2 | 16-140mm

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Canon_Shoe
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Jul 01, 2016 19:41 as a reply to idkdc's post |  #15

It's definitely closing the gap.....I'm looking at 36.3mp and 14.8 stops DR vs 20.2mp and 13.5 stops DR. Still a big difference for landscape. If the 5DSR had 13.5 stops DR, I pry would've stuck with Canon


Facebook-- http://www.facebook.co​m/AndrewShoemakerPhoto​graphy (external link)
Website----http://andrewshoemaker​photography.com/ (external link)
Nikon D810, Nikon 14-24, Nikon 24-70 F/2.8 VR, Nikon 70-200 VR II

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Canon or Nikon (Fair Comparison)
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