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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Performing Arts Talk
Thread started 24 Jul 2016 (Sunday) 00:32
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Shooting martial arts

 
virusn3t
Hatchling
5 posts
Joined Dec 2014
Jul 24, 2016 00:32 |  #1

Hi everyone, i would like to hear tips for shooting martial art, i will expain myself: I have been in a KravMaga dojo for a 3 months, and maybe in september they let me try the test to get my first patch (level)... im thinking to take a camera with me and using once i finish or before if theres time, i never have shoot this kind of photos, mostly product, family or social when im not the one hired for the pictures.

About the place the test will be taken, i dont know what light and size it may have (if it going to be indoors or outdoors), or the place i could take to even start photography... thats something i will have to resolve during the shoot, but im seeking for advice in the shutter speed, the amount nessesary for the picture beign completly frozen, the one for show some movement (a blurry leg or arm) when they throw a punch or a kick

Tomorrow will be a small theater dance outdoors in the city, im gonna take my gear and play with the Shutter priority if i got a few numbers that work i will try then , Shutter/Aperture and let AutoISO fly to see DOF, then if i got lucky maybe try the continuos focusing and hope for the best...

I have a few time to take the "trial and error" way, but it will help me a lot if i got some tips.

Thanks




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Nogo
I could have been worse....
Joined Dec 2013
All Along the Natchez Trace (Clinton, MS)
Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Nogo.
Jul 24, 2016 01:03 |  #2

The locations where these events usually are held are notorious for having poor lighting. What equipment you have will determine what settings you will be able to use. In all likelihood you will need to use a high ISO, and a faster lens will be a real plus.

A good lens that is reasonably priced if you can get right down at ring side would be a EF 85 f1.8. If you can't get close one of the 70-200 f2.8 lenses would be my choice. If these lenses are out of your price range, the 50 f1.8 STM will work but will limit you due to the focal length. In other words, don't expect the 50 to be able to take a closeup.

Having said all that, we really need to know what equipment you have available to even begin to recommend what settings to use.


Philip
Does the TF actually know about the soda cans and PVC pipe from 30 years ago?

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virusn3t
THREAD ­ STARTER
Hatchling
5 posts
Joined Dec 2014
Jul 24, 2016 01:59 |  #3

Nogo wrote in post #18075828 (external link)
The locations where these events usually are held are notorious for having poor lighting. What equipment you have will determine what settings you will be able to use. In all likelihood you will need to use a high ISO, and a faster lens will be a real plus.

A good lens that is reasonably priced if you can get right down at ring side would be a EF 85 f1.8. If you can't get close one of the 70-200 f2.8 lenses would be my choice. If these lenses are out of your price range, the 50 f1.8 STM will work but will limit you due to the focal length. In other words, don't expect the 50 to be able to take a closeup.

Having said all that, we really need to know what equipment you have available to even begin to recommend what settings to use.

Hi, my equipment is a Pentax K1, and my lenses are a 31mm f1.8, 43mm f1.9, 77mm f1.8, a 100mm f2.8 Macro WR and a DFA* 70-200 f2.8.

Im used to studio kind off "work" for product and some portraits, im never ever really have done this type of photography and because of that i feel something lost in how to start.

Thanks for your answer




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Nogo
I could have been worse....
Joined Dec 2013
All Along the Natchez Trace (Clinton, MS)
Jul 24, 2016 03:08 |  #4

Your lens lineup should do well. Without knowing what the setup of the ring is, the 70-200 2.8 is most likely one of the lenses you will end up using.

The problem you are going to have with advise is most users of this forum are Canon users with some Nikon and Sony users. I have not seen many Pentax users on this forum, even though I am sure there are many who use this forum. The problem is, will the Pentax users even notice this topic.....

You will need to use continuous focus mode (what is called servo with canon cameras.) Expect to use a higher ISO depending on the lighting of the venue. Don't be surprised if you need to use even up to 4000 ISO. The higher ISO will cause noise in the images, but this will need to be dealt with in post processing. I would probably shoot the younger kids at the event the first time you try to photograph this sport. The reason I suggest this is the young kids will be slower so it will be less challenging. I know nothing about your camera, but looking at the reviews, they suggest that your keeper rate with action photographs will be low. If the reviews are right, just take a lot of shots and be prepared to cull a lot of images to get good ones. A high shutter speed is necessary for most shots. You can probably get away with 1/600 or 1/800 for the young kids, but for the black belts and older teens/adults you will probably need to use 1/1600 or even 1/2000 to stop action. Of course, you will want to play with the speed. A slightly slower speed showing some motion blur can be beneficial to some shots.

Take my advise as a starting point. I used a Pentax MX probably 30 years ago, but other than having used that camera, I know nothing about Pentax cameras. Someone who knows your camera would be much more able to offer advice than I can.


Philip
Does the TF actually know about the soda cans and PVC pipe from 30 years ago?

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virusn3t
THREAD ­ STARTER
Hatchling
5 posts
Joined Dec 2014
Jul 24, 2016 11:41 |  #5

Nogo wrote in post #18075874 (external link)
Your lens lineup should do well. Without knowing what the setup of the ring is, the 70-200 2.8 is most likely one of the lenses you will end up using.

The problem you are going to have with advise is most users of this forum are Canon users with some Nikon and Sony users. I have not seen many Pentax users on this forum, even though I am sure there are many who use this forum. The problem is, will the Pentax users even notice this topic.....

You will need to use continuous focus mode (what is called servo with canon cameras.) Expect to use a higher ISO depending on the lighting of the venue. Don't be surprised if you need to use even up to 4000 ISO. The higher ISO will cause noise in the images, but this will need to be dealt with in post processing. I would probably shoot the younger kids at the event the first time you try to photograph this sport. The reason I suggest this is the young kids will be slower so it will be less challenging. I know nothing about your camera, but looking at the reviews, they suggest that your keeper rate with action photographs will be low. If the reviews are right, just take a lot of shots and be prepared to cull a lot of images to get good ones. A high shutter speed is necessary for most shots. You can probably get away with 1/600 or 1/800 for the young kids, but for the black belts and older teens/adults you will probably need to use 1/1600 or even 1/2000 to stop action. Of course, you will want to play with the speed. A slightly slower speed showing some motion blur can be beneficial to some shots.

Take my advise as a starting point. I used a Pentax MX probably 30 years ago, but other than having used that camera, I know nothing about Pentax cameras. Someone who knows your camera would be much more able to offer advice than I can.

Yep, i know Pentax is not a very regular choice, even less in (kinda) sport photography were the tracking in Z axle isnt in the level of Nikon or Canon, but i think i can do it ok, im already been given some tips about tracking settings from the same camera users who take pictures of birds (pretty much all default setup is made to suck at tracking once i understand the setup they give me), but others as way of metering light could be not very similar

Im going to try the speed you tell me, im confident with ISO6400 as it get very easy to clean, and about 10kISO with some process the image get very acceptable for my needs.

So far im thinking about going Shutter/Aperture Priority, put a 1/600 and f2.8 or less fo shallow DOF, let AutoISO up tp 6400 and control it from the EV compensation button... and change speed and EV at need.

Thanks for your tips!




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Nogo
I could have been worse....
Joined Dec 2013
All Along the Natchez Trace (Clinton, MS)
Jul 24, 2016 21:16 |  #6

The tracking is what is going to be the challenge. You should be able to find more advice on the exposure settings. Other than the ISO performance of the cameras the brand should not matter too much. The specs for your camera sound like that should not be much of a problem.

White balance is likely to give you problems if it is like most of those places. The cycles of the lights will drive you crazy if you have to shoot with no flash. One frame will be red tinted, the next green, and the next one is "who knows." The trick I figured out is don't just take a shot of a gray card. Take multiple shots of a card. 5 or 6 shots holding the shutter down for a couple of seconds helps capture the different lighting temperature you are likely to get.

Good luck. Sometimes the best approach is just try something and if it works great, if not try something else.


Philip
Does the TF actually know about the soda cans and PVC pipe from 30 years ago?

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PhotosGuy
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Middle of Michigan
Jul 24, 2016 21:40 |  #7

virusn3t wrote in post #18076191 (external link)
...

So far im thinking about going Shutter/Aperture Priority, put a 1/600 and f2.8 or less fo shallow DOF, let AutoISO up tp 6400 and control it from the EV compensation button... and change speed and EV at need.

If I were you, I'd be sure to take the 77mm f1.8, & maybe the other fast primes, too. (They won't do you any good sitting at home?)  ; )


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MalVeauX
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Joined Feb 2013
Florida
Jul 24, 2016 22:20 |  #8

Heya,

If you really want to freeze motion, I would use a strobe or two. Flash duration is so short, that you can completely freeze time. Fast enough to freeze a bee's wings, let alone a slow human punch/kick. Strobe duration is short.

I would use a wider focal length, stopped down to F8 or F11 inside, F16 outside (or more, depends on how bright ambient is), to get full depth of field, and also to completely take down all ambient light. ISO to whatever low value you wish, that keeps ambient light down, along with a shutter at synch speed (1/200s, or whatever it is). Raise ISO as high as you want with shutter at max synch speed, and aperture for full depth of field, while keeping ambient exposure still next to nothing (totally depends on ambient light). Then dial in overall exposure with the strobes. Flashes can do the job just fine. I suggested higher ISO simply because it effects overall exposure and you can use lower power on the strobes that way, making their duration ultra fast and really fast recycle time too.

I would position the wider focal length in a perspective low to the ground, looking up at the subjects, so they appear larger than life, titans, warriors.

I would position two or three speedlites/strobes around off camera, so that the light comes from several angles of your choice, to really liven up the overall environment since it would be in full depth of field.

If you want blurry fists, that takes more creative use of blending ambient & flash, or just using natural ambient light, but something as slow as 1/60s will blur a hand/foot in fast motion while the body is still.

Very best,


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virusn3t
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Hatchling
5 posts
Joined Dec 2014
Jul 25, 2016 00:50 |  #9

Nogo wrote in post #18076688 (external link)
The tracking is what is going to be the challenge. You should be able to find more advice on the exposure settings. Other than the ISO performance of the cameras the brand should not matter too much. The specs for your camera sound like that should not be much of a problem.

White balance is likely to give you problems if it is like most of those places. The cycles of the lights will drive you crazy if you have to shoot with no flash. One frame will be red tinted, the next green, and the next one is "who knows." The trick I figured out is don't just take a shot of a gray card. Take multiple shots of a card. 5 or 6 shots holding the shutter down for a couple of seconds helps capture the different lighting temperature you are likely to get.

Good luck. Sometimes the best approach is just try something and if it works great, if not try something else.

- As i expect the dojo is in full use, i doubt i could take several gray card pictures, i will must have trust the assign to the auto white balance, and hope for not to many correction nedeed.

And yes, im taking every tip to the shoot as if i fail, at least have more ideas and dont freeze myself in the unknow of what else can i do?

Thanks foy your advice

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18076709 (external link)
If I were you, I'd be sure to take the 77mm f1.8, & maybe the other fast primes, too. (They won't do you any good sitting at home?) ; )

- Maybe only at my back :v

But yeah, im planing in taking all the lenses; As theyre very small and light except the 70-200 who is a behemont in weight and size, but i have the confidence that i willl beat any smartphone photo in the dojo

MalVeauX wrote in post #18076731 (external link)
Heya,

If you really want to freeze motion, I would use a strobe or two. Flash duration is so short, that you can completely freeze time. Fast enough to freeze a bee's wings, let alone a slow human punch/kick. Strobe duration is short.

I would use a wider focal length, stopped down to F8 or F11 inside, F16 outside (or more, depends on how bright ambient is), to get full depth of field, and also to completely take down all ambient light. ISO to whatever low value you wish, that keeps ambient light down, along with a shutter at synch speed (1/200s, or whatever it is). Raise ISO as high as you want with shutter at max synch speed, and aperture for full depth of field, while keeping ambient exposure still next to nothing (totally depends on ambient light). Then dial in overall exposure with the strobes. Flashes can do the job just fine. I suggested higher ISO simply because it effects overall exposure and you can use lower power on the strobes that way, making their duration ultra fast and really fast recycle time too.

I would position the wider focal length in a perspective low to the ground, looking up at the subjects, so they appear larger than life, titans, warriors.

I would position two or three speedlites/strobes around off camera, so that the light comes from several angles of your choice, to really liven up the overall environment since it would be in full depth of field.

If you want blurry fists, that takes more creative use of blending ambient & flash, or just using natural ambient light, but something as slow as 1/60s will blur a hand/foot in fast motion while the body is still.

Very best,

I like every part of the aproach, but as will be a real test for a grade, i doubt i can arrenge that kind of setup, often in the drills we use the whole room in the scramble and some equipment in there can be dangerous (for my lightstands and my flashes XD), my plan is once i get there, see whats is going on, take the test, and then take snaps (good ones) of other students as long as i can be there.

Thanks for the tip of low perspective, i havent even think of that way of take the photograph, and im going to try the 1/60 speed!




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