Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk
Thread started 06 Mar 2017 (Monday) 21:04
Prev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

aperture does not = DOF = how I think

 
Talley
Talley Whacker
Talley's Avatar
10,085 posts
Gallery: 35 photos
Joined Dec 2011
Houston
Mar 06, 2017 21:04 |  #1

aperture for me is controlling ISO and Shutter. It's just how I think. I don't look at aperture as ooooooo how much blur do I get... ok I lied ya I do but not first. I think about F1.4 will get me 1/1000 at ISO 6400 vs 2.8 and 1/250 at ISO 6400.

For some reason I just always think about how aperture controls motion. Actually I always just think in motion and then ISO then I worry about aperture.

am I backward?


5D4 |12mm 2.8 FE | 16-35L 2.8 III | Σ 35A | Σ 50A | Σ 85A | 200 F2 IS | 1.4xIII
X-T20 | X-E3 | 18/2 | 35/1.4 | 56/1.2 | 18-135
My Gear Archive

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
SkipD
Cream of the Crop
SkipD's Avatar
20,450 posts
Joined Dec 2002
Southeastern WI, USA
Mar 06, 2017 21:14 |  #2

If all of what you shoot is the same, then maybe your thinking is OK. For me, the immediate situation probably requires somewhat unique problem solving.


Skip Douglas
A few cameras and over 50 years behind them .....
..... but still learning all the time.

LOG IN TO REPLY
Dan ­ Marchant
Goldmember
Dan Marchant's Avatar
Joined Oct 2011
Where I'm from is unimportant, it's where I'm going that counts.
Mar 06, 2017 21:26 |  #3

I don't know why you would say "aperture controls motion" when it is clearly the shutter speed that controls motion.

Personally I pay attention to ss and aperture first because they have a much greater creative impact on an image. ISO is adjusted to get the desired exposure for the ss and aperture I need.


Dan Marchant
Website/blog: danmarchant.com (external link)
Instagram: @dan_marchant (external link)
Gear Canon 5DIII + Fuji X-T2 + lenses + a plastic widget I found in the camera box.

LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
Tom Reichner's Avatar
Joined Dec 2008
Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
Post has been edited 7 months ago by Tom Reichner.
Mar 06, 2017 22:19 |  #4

Talley wrote in post #18293918 (external link)
aperture for me is controlling ISO and Shutter. It's just how I think. I don't look at aperture as ooooooo how much blur do I get...

For some reason I just always think about how aperture controls motion.

am I backward?

.
Yes, your thinking does appear to be backwards.

If you don't think about aperture as the setting that controls depth of field, then what setting do you think controls depth of field?

If you think about aperture as controlling motion, then what do you think shutter speed does?

There are many, many different ways to go about capturing an image, and in order to be a well-rounded artist, it is important to have a solid working knowledge of how to capture images in those different ways.

Some scenes may be most effectively photographed by having a very shallow depth of field. Some may be most effectively photographed by panning with the subject and thereby creating motion-streaked background blur. Some scenes may produce the most compelling images if you have great depth field and render both the foreground and background elements in sharp focus. Some images will be most creatively captured when you have a given background element appear large relative to the foreground subject. Etc., etc., etc.

A thorough, accurate way of thinking about each camera setting and how that setting will result in the rendering of all of the elements in your composition is the best way to think. Otherwise, you run the risk of not being a well-rounded artist, and having all of your images end up with the same general look and feel.


EDIT:

Talley, since I first responded to this thread of yours, I have given more thought to the way you describe the way you think, and it leads me to a question I would like you to contemplate.

When you survey a scene / subject that you are planning to photograph, when you are thinking through the way you should photograph the scene and what you want the image to look like, are you not asking yourself, "How much of this scene do I want to be in focus, and just how out of focus do I want the out of focus elements to be?"

If you are going through that thought process, where you make assessments and decisions about depth of field, does not the aperture factor in as one of the major factors in this decision-making process?

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "peace of mind", NOT "piece of mind".

LOG IN TO REPLY
Archibald
You must be quackers!
Archibald's Avatar
Joined May 2008
Calgary
Mar 06, 2017 23:04 |  #5

Your post is a bit contradictory. So who knows. Does it work for you? Fine, carry on.

I have heard that many use the Av mode. There could be lots of reasons for that, but often there are fewer aperture choices. For a long time I used Av. For my birding, I was typically wide open or stopped down a small amount, necessary because I needed the shutter speed and ISO... and for my macro stuff, it was usually f/11. Easy, nothing to it in Av.

So starting with aperture is good.

Nowadays I shoot in M with auto ISO.


Hasselblad 500 C/M with 80mm/2.8 Zeiss Planar (trying to sell it); Pentax Spotmatic F with 28/3.5, 50/1.4, 50/1.8, 135/3.5; Canon digital gear
C&C always welcome.
Picture editing OK

LOG IN TO REPLY
mystik610
Cream of the Crop
mystik610's Avatar
Joined Jan 2012
Houston, TX
Post has been last edited 7 months ago by mystik610. 3 edits done in total.
Mar 06, 2017 23:24 |  #6

It depends on what you shoot. When shooting portraits considering the aperture is one of the first steps in my compositional process, because that has such a big impact on the aesthetic of the photo. And no I'm not a "always shoot wide open" type. Rather, I'm always thinking of the balance between how much of my subject I want in focus, and how much of the background I need to keep from distracting. Very often this actually means stopping the lens down, but it is one of the first things I consider. And very often I take multiple exposures at different apertures because the aperture is such a big component of the photo that I want to have options when I process the photos later.

Shutter speed controls motion and is always a consideration...but where SS lies as a priority depends on what you shoot. If the aesthetic of a shot depends on the shutter speed(i.e. sports, or LE landscapes), then obviously this is first priority. For portraits, my only concern is that my shutter speed is fast enough to not pick too much subject motion. As such, I usually lock my min shutter speed to 1/125 and call it a day. Only when I'm specifically trying to freeze or capture motion do I ever think of shutter speed when shooting.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α9 - Zeiss Loxia 21 - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - 85GM - Sony 70-200GM

LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Wilt's Avatar
39,009 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Joined Aug 2005
Belmont, CA
Post has been last edited 7 months ago by Wilt. 3 edits done in total.
Mar 07, 2017 00:10 |  #7

Talley wrote in post #18293918 (external link)
aperture for me is controlling ISO and Shutter. It's just how I think. I don't look at aperture as ooooooo how much blur do I get... ok I lied ya I do but not first. I think about F1.4 will get me 1/1000 at ISO 6400 vs 2.8 and 1/250 at ISO 6400.

For some reason I just always think about how aperture controls motion. Actually I always just think in motion and then ISO then I worry about aperture.

am I backward?

While 'aperture controls motion' is absolutely not how I think about it (shutter controls motion), I do think that
'aperture size relates to amount of available light'.
If I am indoors (or outdoors at night), I think f/2; if I am outdoors in sunlight I think f/16 -- very automatically. And for me, f/2 does NOT equal 'shallow DOF' in all cases.
After all, 50mm f/2 has 33' DOF zone when subject is at 50', even 135mm f/2 at 50' has 4' DOF zone. In low light, for reportage I have all the DOF I need for a news photo.
Maybe not enough DOF 'for landsacape', but I do little landscape shooting.

For portraiture, I know many clients wonder 'why is everything out of focus?' when they see shallow DOF. So for me, I automatically select f/8 for portraiture, without thinking...pure reflex action. No thinking of DOF zone.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support http://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

LOG IN TO REPLY
sjones
Goldmember
sjones's Avatar
2,190 posts
Joined Aug 2005
Chicago
Mar 07, 2017 02:49 |  #8

If it’s sunny, smaller aperture; if it’s shady or overcast, wider aperture. DoF fall where it may.


Asheville to Chicago 2016-2017 (external link)
Eggleston's photography is superb. Deal with it!
It's the Photographer (external link) | God Loves Photoshop (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
kf095
Cream of the Crop
kf095's Avatar
Joined Dec 2009
Canada, Ontario, Milton
Mar 07, 2017 08:33 |  #9

Sometimes I do it like OP.
Aperture is nothing, but one of the three exposure components. A, T and ISO.
And "motion" motion of OP does make sense for me as well in the street photography which is done with film and in manual mode in my case. Most often I like to have shutter speed fast enough to avoid motion blur. I'm opening and closing aperture to maintain same shutter speed while I'm walking sun and shadows parts of the streets. Or sometimes I close aperture and put filter on to have plenty of motion blur during sunny day:

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8706/27580127974_ff2f57d0a0_o.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/J2an​aQ] (external link)

But my another situations are where I'm using aperture to control DoF. It includes family candid pictures (five people around table, ten+ people across the room) and also street photography. Where I'm constantly aware of how much DoF I'm getting with f1.5 or f8. If I have rangefinder camera with ISO 50 film, aperture and DoF are very important.

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/446/19046710236_8527097cfa_o.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/v26n​nN] (external link)

This one was done with 50mm lens, but by zone focusing (position of lens focus tab and knowledge of the DoF, which depends on the aperture and focus distance) on ISO50 film.

Old Site (external link). M-E and ME blog (external link). Film Flickr (external link). my DigitaL and AnaLog Gear.

LOG IN TO REPLY
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,305 posts
Joined Apr 2003
British Columbia
Mar 07, 2017 08:46 |  #10

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18293929 (external link)
I don't know why you would say "aperture controls motion" when it is clearly the shutter speed that controls motion.

Personally I pay attention to ss and aperture first because they have a much greater creative impact on an image. ISO is adjusted to get the desired exposure for the ss and aperture I need.

In fact many times I put the camera into auto ISO so I can concentrate on the shutter and / or aperture.




LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
TeamSpeed's Avatar
31,903 posts
Gallery: 58 photos
Joined May 2002
Northern Indiana
Mar 07, 2017 09:39 |  #11

When I do portraiture, I am first thinking of DOF, and not ISO or shutter speeds. I can usually add more light if needed and there is not really any motion to worry about. However I do worry about getting the backdrops blurry, or want that to go to black, or want that 3d pop by having the subject defined and everything else blurred. The only time I run small apertures is when doing a group shot.


Past Equipment | My Gallery (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
ksbal
Goldmember
ksbal's Avatar
Joined Sep 2010
N.E. Kansas
Mar 07, 2017 09:54 |  #12

Nope, everyone has their method that works for them, usually based on the subjects they shoot.
Their ' go to starting point' if you will.


YN622 English User Guide/Manual by Clive
https://drive.google.c​om ...Ig0gMMzZFaDVlZ1VNTE​0/view (external link)

LOG IN TO REPLY
Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
13,450 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Joined Sep 2007
Mar 07, 2017 10:02 |  #13

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18294274 (external link)
When I do portraiture, I am first thinking of DOF, and not ISO or shutter speeds. I can usually add more light if needed and there is not really any motion to worry about. However I do worry about getting the backdrops blurry, or want that to go to black, or want that 3d pop by having the subject defined and everything else blurred. The only time I run small apertures is when doing a group shot.

even portraiture, you still have a minimum shutter you abide by.


Sony A7r - A7ii - A7rii - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - FE 35/2.8 - CV 35/1.7 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CY 35-70, 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8, 24/1.4

LOG IN TO REPLY
Talley
THREAD ­ STARTER
Talley Whacker
Talley's Avatar
10,085 posts
Gallery: 35 photos
Joined Dec 2011
Houston
Mar 07, 2017 10:34 |  #14

this isn't how I pick the settings of the camera or what mode I'm in. This is how my brain deciphers exposure. Out of the triangle I always think about motion first and aperture is easy... I can control aperture by controlling my motion. It's a full 360 circle... one change in one thing changes the other.

What I'm trying to say is I don't really think about what specific changes to one specific setting causes but I think if I change my motion control from 1/60 to 1/250 then I go from 2.8 to 1.4 = I control aperture or if I'm controlling aperture I think more of how I'm affecting motion. The DOF thing for me I never really consider... I just make changes and then I say oh... well.. ya I like 3.2 for this shot or 2.2 for that or F8 for this one it's eh whatever

I don't go into a scene saying I MUST SHOOT THIS AT F11.... no... I worry about what the look I want to achieve is by the motion first and foremost... which adjusting aperture changes motion if not compensated by ISO.


5D4 |12mm 2.8 FE | 16-35L 2.8 III | Σ 35A | Σ 50A | Σ 85A | 200 F2 IS | 1.4xIII
X-T20 | X-E3 | 18/2 | 35/1.4 | 56/1.2 | 18-135
My Gear Archive

LOG IN TO REPLY
Talley
THREAD ­ STARTER
Talley Whacker
Talley's Avatar
10,085 posts
Gallery: 35 photos
Joined Dec 2011
Houston
Mar 07, 2017 10:37 |  #15

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18294274 (external link)
When I do portraiture, I am first thinking of DOF, and not ISO or shutter speeds. I can usually add more light if needed and there is not really any motion to worry about. However I do worry about getting the backdrops blurry, or want that to go to black, or want that 3d pop by having the subject defined and everything else blurred. The only time I run small apertures is when doing a group shot.

I shoot portrait by TV mode and control the motion... if I'm inside I'll be around 1/160 and the camera will select wide open aperture before raising ISO and if the aperture is to narrow then I flick the shutter up to control my aperture.... or if I move to the outside I just flip the shutter up until I get an aperture that I want.

What I hate more than anything is the camera selecting my motion control for me which is why I hardly ever shoot AV. It's either M or TV and I only select ISO when I'm strobing.


5D4 |12mm 2.8 FE | 16-35L 2.8 III | Σ 35A | Σ 50A | Σ 85A | 200 F2 IS | 1.4xIII
X-T20 | X-E3 | 18/2 | 35/1.4 | 56/1.2 | 18-135
My Gear Archive

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

5,166 views & 40 likes for this thread
aperture does not = DOF = how I think
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk


Not a member yet? Click here to register to the forums.
Registered members get all the features: search, following threads, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, settings, view hosted photos, own reviews and more...


AAA

Send feedback to staff    •   Jump to forum...    •   Rules    •   Index    •   New posts    •   RTAT    •   'Best of'    •   Gallery    •   Gear    •   Reviews    •   Polls

COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Privacy policy and cookie usage info.

POWERED BY AMASS 1.4version 1.4
made in Finland
by Pekka Saarinen
for photography-on-the.net
Spent 0.00157 for 4 database queries.
PAGE COMPLETED IN 0.1s
Latest registered member is jjj9070749
910 guests, 425 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6106, that happened on Jun 09, 2016