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Thread started 16 Apr 2017 (Sunday) 21:10
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Second shooter lens question

 
Osa713
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Apr 16, 2017 21:10 |  #1

Hi Guys,

I recently agreed to second shoot an indoor wedding ceremony/reception for a friend of mine in a few months and I had a question about lenses.

I currently have an 18-55 (24-70 equivalent). and I am debating on renting a 90mm which is about 144m or renting the 50-140 (70-200 equivalent).

My position in the ceremony will be similar to this youtube link. You can skip to 1:12 to see her setup. I wanted to ask the Fuji shooters vs posting in the wedding sub forum as 2nd shooter threads were over 2 years old.




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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Apr 17, 2017 03:02 |  #2

You said indoor, if there is good light the 18-55 will do OK for you, if not get 1.4 prime.

Between the 90/2 and the 50-140/2.8:

1. the 90/2 is one stop of light brighter & is smaller and lighter

2. the 50-140/2.8 has OIS

With the 90/2 you will really need to shoot above 1/160 ideally 1/200 even if you have steady hands or you risk blur from camera shake. That was the same when I shot with Canon's beautiful 135 F/2 L on a 5D3.
Given that weddings guests usually move comparatively slow you can get away with shooting 1/100 or so, then OIS will be your friend at longer focal lengths. More than removing the one stop of brightness of the 90/2. The zoom will give you more flexibility in framing also.

I shoot mostly primes at weddings but I carry three camera bodies so I can have a range of widths available to me quickly, zooms are handler but the 1.4 aperture in badly lit areas is a saving feature and OIS will do nothing to help you there as once you hit you min shutter speed so you can not blur your images, from subject movement, getting light into your camera is all about aperture.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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Osa713
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Apr 17, 2017 09:27 as a reply to Two Hot Shoes's post |  #3

Thanks for the insight. The kit lens is 2.8-4 and I would use it on the wider end for the 2.8.

I am leaning towards just buying the 90m as a local camera store has a deal on a used one. For my first rodeo I think the lighter and smaller prime might suit me better vs lugging around a huge zoom i am not accustomed to yet.




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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Post has been edited 7 months ago by Two Hot Shoes.
Apr 17, 2017 12:51 as a reply to Osa713's post |  #4

The 90/2 is a very nice lens, the 50-140 is not that big, big for a mirrorless lens but not big, if you know what I mean.

You could always rent one, plenty of good rental houses in the US to choose from and not expensive at all. Although you could second shoot with just a 23 or 35, chat you your first to see what they want from you and you will know what to expect. A 23 on one camera and the 56 on the other would easily cover you so if you have the light for f/4 I wouldn't even worry about buying a longer lens, chat to the first photographer re his needs for the day.

I only ever ask my 2nds to have a wide, like the xf23 and tele like the xf56 on them or just shoot xf35mm but if they have experience I let them know what to go shoot at each part of the day and let them at it. I also say to dip in and out of my gear if they want/need as long as they get the shot I really don't care what they shoot, just how they shoot.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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5280Pics
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Apr 17, 2017 13:19 |  #5

If you know the lighting will be a bit dark, I would rent the 16-55 2.8, and couple it with the 50-140 2.8
I have read that the 90mm is one of Fuji's sharpest lenses but, that's quite a longer fixed length for run/gun wedding shots.
Your "kit" lens could probably get you buy (if the venue is a bit darker) but, you will be pushing the ISO . Which wouldn't worry me too much since the newer Fuji's handle high ISO pretty darn well.
One lens that I own, is very sharp, but has the slowest focusing of any of my Fuji lenses, is the 56mm. Love the images it produces but, damn is it slow to focus!


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AlanU
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Apr 17, 2017 14:59 |  #6

I'd suggest having a minimum of two bodies and for indoors any fuji application TTL flash.

I think 90mm or 56mm is all dependent of your comfort zone. The 70-200 equivalent in full frame's "go to" lens for many photogs. Nikon or canon the long telephoto lens focuses instantly even it extremely challenging light with most modern day dlsr's!! In low light I'm not certain how the fuji does with the 50-140.

The Primary shooter is relying on you that if he/she messes up timing or has bad images that your the "backup". The 50-140 may give you a lot of versatility while staying stationary or foot zooming while still using a zoom lens.

With a zoom you may have focus lag while in a dark low light environment. Its when you want to do quick trigger money shots that you should give yourself time to be ready. Also the low light dancefloor or even dark reception while a slide show is presented you may need to manual focus.

Just yesterday I put my X-T2 to a challenging test. I documented my friends children's easter egg hunt. I noticed that with my 16mm or 10-24mm the autofocus lagged where I'd normall have no issues with my Canon gear. As guests arrived even quickly trying to capture parents hugging children the X-T2 lagged indoors using my 16mm with EF-X500 flash. X-T2 is definitely faster than my X-E2 and X-T10 but single shot still hesitated to the point it missed a good portion of what I normally capture with ease. Missing photos like that would anger any primary photog.

Do not allow your camera to go into any sleep mode or even your flash. However be prepared to eat batteries quickly and turn off th rear lcd and AF beep. Just monitor the red icon where "no AF" occured if the camera hunts.

Rent any lenses days ahead of the gig. You should be able to navigate second nature with the lens.

If your shooting available light only for indoor environments I don't think zooms would be ideal. Just remember casual fun shots is fine but as a second shooter you may be requested to shoot the groomsmen so it's not a casual environment. No room for missed shots in low light environments.

I'm sure tempted to see how well a 16-55 performs in low challenging light even with flash. The lack of infra red AF assist has really caused me to miss shots I never ever would have missed with a dlsr with flash.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Post has been last edited 7 months ago by Two Hot Shoes. 3 edits done in total.
Apr 17, 2017 16:38 |  #7

AlanU wrote in post #18330472 (external link)
Just yesterday I put my X-T2 to a challenging test. I documented my friends children's easter egg hunt. I noticed that with my 16mm or 10-24mm the autofocus lagged where I'd normall have no issues with my Canon gear. As guests arrived even quickly trying to capture parents hugging children the X-T2 lagged indoors using my 16mm with EF-X500 flash. X-T2 is definitely faster than my X-E2 and X-T10 but single shot still hesitated to the point it missed a good portion of what I normally capture with ease. Missing photos like that would anger any primary photog...

...I'm sure tempted to see how well a 16-55 performs in low challenging light even with flash. The lack of infra red AF assist has really caused me to miss shots I never ever would have missed with a dlsr with flash.

I remember when last years firmware update for the X-PRO2 came out that gave it the same AF as the X-T2, I gave my two kids a couple of water pistols and told them to run about the back garden and have fun. The X-PRO2 nailed shot after shot after shot and that was with the 56/1.2 - about the slowest of Fuji's XF primes. I've never had a problem focusing indoors in average lighting either since that update. If is gets dark you might have a different experience, as with any camera, including any of my 3 5D3's but Fuji's manual focus aids are so good it's just plain easy to use. I'd never even dream of trying to MF on a DSLR. If you are going to get the most out of your Fuji you need to look at how you use it differently. I know trying to get the Sigma art lenses to lock on with or without AF assist was a battle once the subject was moving so you have to know what gear will work given any situation.

The 16-55 is very good in low light Alan, if you have the light for 2.8, at an ISO you are happy with, it's fast. Even if you are using flash, remember the EVF can 'see in the dark', it's all round a great lens and I still use mine from time to time when shooting, it was my first Fuji lens, but I was always a prime guy so I prefer a few cameras and lenses. The 2.8 zooms will give you very fast AF at 1/125 when your ISO is 8000 or so - really I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think it is as fast, in bad light, as a EF 24-70 f/2.8 mark-ii L on a 5D3 with AF assist on but it's plenty close enough for shooting events with, even in low light. Over the last year and a bit of shooting weddings, amongst other things with Fuji I simply don't see the need to use anything else for now. The system has all that is required, for me anyway. I know others might differ but I can get all I need from Fuji. When it comes down to it you have to know your gear and what is going to work for the shot, and for you, otherwise you might just miss it.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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AlanU
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Apr 17, 2017 17:08 |  #8

Thanks for the info Kim,

I'm analyzing my 80D files vs my X-T2 and I'll have to say the Fuji film presets like Provia/standard even looks beautiful and easy on the eyes. Bouncing flash is also producing fantastic Fuji files. My Canon requires me to use on of my custom modified presets to achieve a softer easy on the eyes "look".

I must change my mindset in how I shoot fuji. I had the X-T2 on my spider holster. a new arrival "parent" walked in and hugged the crazy happy kids in the home. I pulled the X-T2 out of my holster and it just didn't grab the "moment" and I missed it by fraction of seconds. I was just in the zone as if I was using my Canon gear. Even if the Canon goes into sleep mode it wakes up in a fraction of a second and I'll be able to capture anything instantly. The fuji in sleep mode with EF-X500 "auto stby" is extremely slow and you'll be guaranteed to wait a little longer than you want till the camera is in full operation. Also I've noticed that my Canon 430exii, 580exii and 600EX-RT has almost no misfires unless it's a low battery. Not sure if the fuji $$$$$$$ flash is flakey but it looses communication sometimes after sleep mode so I am questioning firmware. I have to switch the on/off switch OFF to ON. The LED will spit light only if I do not cycle power. Quite disappointed in this hiccup at the moment.

Sure I'm not quite there with fuji but I cannot complain editing hundreds/thousand of fuji files. The files simply are pleasing to the eyes!!! I honestly can see other Canon users jumping into Fuji experiencing the same exact change in how a camera system operates.

Osa,

I've noticed that Fuji in very low light on dark clothing will give me a red " NO AF" indicator more often than not. Make sure your extremely familiar with the lenses you rent or buy. This will potentially loose the "moment" if your not fully up to speed with how fuji reacts to low light.

I can't stress enough to have at least 2 bodies minimum.

Osa, most importantly have a tonne of spare batteries and even spare memory cards.

Have fun!!!


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Post has been edited 7 months ago by Two Hot Shoes.
Apr 17, 2017 17:38 as a reply to AlanU's post |  #9

Yes I think I'm now trained to only have the camera on if it's in my hand, as soon as I drop it for another one I switch it off and the other one on. Much faster ready to shoot time and saves battery life too. So second nature now I had to think about that for a second. I have the sleep mode off on all my flashes but I've yet to try the big Fuji flash.

Note on batteries, as a primary shooter, shooting only with Fuji, over 14 hours I'll have inserted about 10 batteries into three cameras, I do spend a little screen time showing some shots on the LCD during the reception though. And I'll also second having a second body even as a second shooter. Weddings are a one shot affair, if you miss it it's hard to re-do the shot, least for the ceremony. You shouldn't have that stress though as a second. I love shooting weddings, such fun and so nice to be included up close to such a private moment of two peoples lives. Dress well and as Alan says have fun, your energy will carry across to all there.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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Osa713
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Apr 17, 2017 20:14 as a reply to Two Hot Shoes's post |  #10

My kit lens will be fine for documenting the men getting ready and wide angles of the altar.

The 90/f2 will suit me fine for everything else.




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AlanU
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Apr 17, 2017 21:34 |  #11

Osa713 wrote in post #18330702 (external link)
My kit lens will be fine for documenting the men getting ready and wide angles of the altar.

The 90/f2 will suit me fine for everything else.


Please note 90mm will force you to be at a good distance away from your subjects. The tight FOV can potentially hinder your story telling capabilities if your not someone that is in tune with immediate foot zooming to get the shot with a wide angle lens. 18-55 is a great lens and 18mm will be f/2.8 but please note f/4 on the long end of the kit lens can be too slow and you may possibly need a lot of light for professional image quality.

For no flash photography I'd deal with an f/2 wide angle prime lens (16mm f/1.4, 23mm f/1.4 or f/2) but if your using advanced bounced flash technique you can easily get away with the 18-55.

The 90mm will be a great lens to have if you have a bag full of other primes. At minimum I'd say go with a 35mm f/1.4 (50mm equiv) if you need reasonably tight FOV but nice subject "pop" at wide apertures. Some combos photogs like is 24mm and 50mm or 35mm and 85mm. It all depends on your style.

I think it's imperative to have at least a fast wide angle prime if you've not mastered bounced flash. Just make a note that sometimes bounced flash just kills the moment.

have fun!!!


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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EverydayGetaway
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Post has been last edited 7 months ago by EverydayGetaway. 2 edits done in total.
Apr 17, 2017 23:24 |  #12

I just got done shooting my first Fuji wedding last Friday, it went great!

The first thing I would ask is what size is the venue? If it's like the one I just shot at the 90mm would be way too restricting for everything but the ceremony... but this wedding probably had less than 50 people on the guest list.

I would definitely talk to the main shooter (as I'm sure you already have) and determine exactly what his/her expectations are of you and where they'd like you to be, they should be the first person to ask about what focal length you should be using.

I agree with the other posts about your attitude and appearance being important, you definitely want to try to blend into the happiness that everyone else is absorbed in. I also agree that a flash is important to bring, though I would discuss this with the primary shooter as well... if they're planning on using anything in slave mode or want to do some shutter drag shots at lower SS then you'll want to make sure your equipment isn't conflicting.

Oddly I had a very different experience in regards to battery life... I shot with 3 bodies (X-Pro2, X100T and X-T1) and only changed 2 batteries between all 3 cameras for 6 hours of shooting, to me that was very reasonable. I don't have the final image count yet, but I did change cards on my X-T1 at one point and got close to filling the 32gb main card in my X-Pro2.

If it helps, the main lenses I used all night were the 23mm of my X100T (obviously), my Rokinon 12mm on the X-T1 and my XF 35/1.4 on my X-Pro2 (though the shoot has now made me consider getting the new XF 50/2 for that little extra bit of compression). I also briefly used my Rokinon 85mm for the ceremony and my XF 55-200mm, also for the ceremony.

What focal length you should use for X event will always have a certain level of subjectivity though, it really depends on your style and many other circumstances... but again, being that you're not the main shooter for this particular event, I would consult them first.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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Osa713
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Apr 17, 2017 23:53 as a reply to EverydayGetaway's post |  #13

Thanks for the advice. I am getting the final details on the venue tonight and it's a small wedding under 75 people.

The primary shooter is a very good friend of mine so there isn't any pressure on me. I am primarily shooting angles he can't shoot while he is working and we plan to mirror each other like the video I posted.

He recommends the 50-140. I just wanted an excuse to by the 90 for portraits which I will still buy anyway. :lol:




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Osa713
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Post has been last edited 5 months ago by Osa713. 2 edits done in total.
May 29, 2017 14:03 |  #14

Updates*

In case anyone cares. I decided on the 16-55 F2.8 since I am not yet comfortable with the kit lens changing aperatures so quickly when zoomed.

First off this an amazing lens and it focused lightning fast especially in situations where the light was challenging. Only downside was the weight, lugging it around with a flash and grip got tiresome after 10hrs.

I wish I would have rented the 55-140 or had the 90 for times I wanted to get closer(ceremony and reception) but the main shooter had that covered and this will not be my last opportunity.

On a another note I have a new found respect for wedding photogs it's a grueling day shooting for that long but my passion and love for photography kept me sane. :lol: I got adjusted to the weight of the camera/grip/flash as the night went on but using that same setup with a DSLR seems like a death sentence haha.




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EverydayGetaway
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by EverydayGetaway.
May 29, 2017 14:12 |  #15

Osa713 wrote in post #18365825 (external link)
Updates*

In case anyone cares. I decided on the 16-55 F2.8 since I am not yet comfortable with the kit lens changing aperatures so quickly when zoomed.

First off this an amazing lens and it focused lightning fast especially in situations where the light was challenging. Only downside was the weight, lugging it around with a flash and grip got tiresome after 10hrs.

I wish I would have rented the 55-140 or had the 90 for times I wanted to get closer(ceremony and reception) but the main shooter had that covered and this will not be my last opportunity.

On a another note I have a new found respect for wedding photogs it's a grueling day shooting for that long but my passion and love for photography kept me sane. :lol: I got adjusted to the weight of the camera/grip/flash as the night went on but using that same setup with a DSLR seems like a death sentence haha.

Yeah, I really don't know how people lug so much gear around for such a long period of time... I was feeling sore just after a 5 hour wedding with my 3 Fuji bodies, and for most of it I only carried 2 at a time and no bag... and I'm under 30! :lol:


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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