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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre People Talk
Thread started 02 May 2017 (Tuesday) 09:48
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A friend wants to see ALL the photos.........

 
FreeSoul1987
Senior Member
Joined Jul 2012
Southern Indiana
May 02, 2017 09:48 |  #1

So I'm still using friends and family to build my portfolio, this last Saturday I did a shoot with my friend and her 3 year old daughter. I went through the post-processing and picked out the best to show on my facebook and website, and 3 of the best on here. Then I got a little lax as far as candid and ones that will be amusing down the road, it was difficult as her daughter was not cooperating and any smile actually looked more like she was constipated. It was frustrating because I've done photos of her in my makeshift studio and she did really well... maybe it was the heat and the dress and late in the afternoon when she would normally be napping. But I came out with 42 photos for her to have and enjoy, which I felt was pretty good for a difficult session. She is pushing for all of them, even the not so great ones, I guess she wants to go through and pick ones to share on her instagram and facebook..
I'm not sure if I should, and if I shouldn't I am not exactly sure how to tell her. She's done sessions with some other photographer she claims is really good and does a lot of work, who told her he'd have like over a 100 photos to give her (that was like late last year and she so far only has like 10).
What do you do when family or friends push for all photos?


*Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*
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Gear: Canon T2i, 430EX II flash, Tamron 18-270mm VC PZD II, Canon 18-55mm lens, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II lens

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Qlayer2
OOOHHH! Pretty Moth!
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Joined Dec 2013
Detroit, MI
May 02, 2017 10:13 |  #2

Depending on how long the session was, 42 seems like a lot. The best way to handle things like these is to be up front and honest, and set your clients expectations prior to the shoot, either in the initial contact or the contract.

Typically, I aim for 2 keepers per pose/location. Any more than that, and you're not only making yourself do more work (editing the images), but making it difficult for the parents/subjects to pick out their favorite, which is when they start looking for small flaws in the images.

Depending on how many locations, poses, outfits, etc will determine how many finished images I'll give out.

The correct answer should be truthful - I gave you all of the edited and completed images. I delete all of the images where the subject may be blinking, not engaged with the camera, I was testing or modifying my lighting, etc.

If you have other images you are willing to part with, then go ahead and give them out. Just remember, you are judged not by your best work, but by consistency and quality. If you don't feel like you have any other images to give out that are of the same quality as the others, than be honest and tell them so.


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PineBomb
I have many notable flaws
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Joined Apr 2014
Psych Ward, East Wing, USA
May 02, 2017 11:28 |  #3

FreeSoul1987 wrote in post #18344316 (external link)
What do you do when family or friends push for all photos?

In terms of my usual course of dealing I wouldn't treat them any differently than I would a typical portrait client. Manage expectations. Don't inundate them with numerous images. I do the initial culling of the set to eliminate throwaways and overly duplicative images. The client will never see the ones going into the dust bin. Then I present the client with a manageable set of proofs from which they can select whatever number of images we previously agreed to.

These proofs reflect only minimal editing. Among those, I typically include at least one image sample reflecting significant editing (usually one that I think the client might select) to help them visualize what a final image will look like. If I publish any of the images for myself, it's typically a small number (1-3), and I avoid publishing until after delivery of the finals to the client.

This process avoids wasted editing time, encourages selectivity, gives the client a sense of participation in the final editing choices (whether that's true or not), and helps to illustrate to the client that photography is very much a craft that takes time and toil. IMO, if you're furnishing a dump of 40+ finalized images right off the bat, you've done too much work and undersold the value of your time. They can always have more of the images, but it's your job to manage expectations and set boundaries.


-Matt
Website (external link) | flickr (external link) | instagram (external link) | street portrait project on instagram (external link)

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MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
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Joined Feb 2013
Florida
May 02, 2017 11:33 |  #4

Heya,

This is why you contract up front, all the time.

40+ images seems like a ton. I would think 4~12 would be it, tops, or so. Only the best of each individual pose or scene/location or wardrobe change.

Otherwise, give her low resolution versions of the images. She didn't ask for every RAW file. And you two didn't exchange money. They did you a favor. You do them a favor. Don't spoil the relationship for your ego.

And if you're not wanting your name/business on the ones you don't like, then don't watermark them. People crop out watermarks all the time and spam your photos with horrible filters applied all the time. You can't control this.

Don't sweat it. :)

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link) :: Canon 17-40L For Sale

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FreeSoul1987
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Joined Jul 2012
Southern Indiana
Post has been edited 7 months ago by FreeSoul1987.
May 02, 2017 13:35 |  #5

The images include fun moments that aren't posed, but candid on a playground, a couple humorous when the girl was very upset and pouting and a few pictures of my friend doing some moves and poses on a pole (she used to be a pole dancer aka stripper). When I first told her that there are 18 really good ones that I was okay with sharing to facebook, she seemed really disappointed.... like thanks to her other friend, she expected near a hundred good ones or memorable ones. She's just looking for memories, even candid ones of them playing and having fun on the playground and a few of her doing her pole poses.
Being honest with myself, I only find 4 really good ones that I am willing to put on my website or even here.
It just seemed weird the way she acted, I can't help but want to tell her this other photographer is either lying to her about how many he took or that not every photographer is going to give you every single photograph, especially ones that are almost doubles or someone was closing their eyes or someone looked constipated...... 18 good ones is a good number for an hour long session.


*Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*
www.FreeSoulPhotograph​y.smugmug.comexternal link
Gear: Canon T2i, 430EX II flash, Tamron 18-270mm VC PZD II, Canon 18-55mm lens, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II lens

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PineBomb
I have many notable flaws
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Joined Apr 2014
Psych Ward, East Wing, USA
May 02, 2017 15:21 |  #6

At this point you've already established a course of dealing with this friend and delivered a certain number of images. If I were you, I would make some effort to make your friend happy and wrap things up, but still try to maintain some control. Perhaps you could present her with proofs of the the remaining acceptable images. Do not present the throwaways, but instead explain those away as technical issues or unflattering poses, etc. Among the proofs suggest why some in your judgment are worthwhile when others are not, and explain why. I know ultimately she might still insist on all of them, but consider it a lesson learned. Digital photography and increased fps have resulted in this silly obsession with "keepers", and is inversely proportional to quality IMO. We can all be better and more selective editors.

Looking toward the future, spend some time deciding how you want to define yourself and the service you offer, then enunciate that clearly with your clients. How many images you deliver and the care you take in the editing will differ between portrait sessions vs. event shooting. It seems this session was a blend of the two. As a guide, research photographers in your region to see what they charge for the various services they offer and the number of images they deliver. Even if you're not charging money, that's no reason to conduct yourself in a manner that's anything less. Consider the value in terms of the estimated time you'll spend.


-Matt
Website (external link) | flickr (external link) | instagram (external link) | street portrait project on instagram (external link)

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FreeSoul1987
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Joined Jul 2012
Southern Indiana
May 02, 2017 15:55 |  #7

PineBomb wrote in post #18344606 (external link)
At this point you've already established a course of dealing with this friend and delivered a certain number of images. If I were you, I would make some effort to make your friend happy and wrap things up, but still try to maintain some control. Perhaps you could present her with proofs of the the remaining acceptable images. Do not present the throwaways, but instead explain those away as technical issues or unflattering poses, etc. Among the proofs suggest why some in your judgment are worthwhile when others are not, and explain why. I know ultimately she might still insist on all of them, but consider it a lesson learned. Digital photography and increased fps have resulted in this silly obsession with "keepers", and is inversely proportional to quality IMO. We can all be better and more selective editors.

Looking toward the future, spend some time deciding how you want to define yourself and the service you offer, then enunciate that clearly with your clients. How many images you deliver and the care you take in the editing will differ between portrait sessions vs. event shooting. It seems this session was a blend of the two. As a guide, research photographers in your region to see what they charge for the various services they offer and the number of images they deliver. Even if you're not charging money, that's no reason to conduct yourself in a manner that's anything less. Consider the value in terms of the estimated time you'll spend.

Thankfully, I can honestly say this friend's wants are rare. Nobody - friend, family or client has ever asked questions like that, they were always quite pleased with the results.
Sometimes this friend can be a bit unrealistic.....


*Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*
www.FreeSoulPhotograph​y.smugmug.comexternal link
Gear: Canon T2i, 430EX II flash, Tamron 18-270mm VC PZD II, Canon 18-55mm lens, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II lens

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MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
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Joined Feb 2013
Florida
May 02, 2017 16:16 |  #8

FreeSoul1987 wrote in post #18344507 (external link)
The images include fun moments that aren't posed, but candid on a playground, a couple humorous when the girl was very upset and pouting and a few pictures of my friend doing some moves and poses on a pole (she used to be a pole dancer aka stripper). When I first told her that there are 18 really good ones that I was okay with sharing to facebook, she seemed really disappointed.... like thanks to her other friend, she expected near a hundred good ones or memorable ones. She's just looking for memories, even candid ones of them playing and having fun on the playground and a few of her doing her pole poses.
Being honest with myself, I only find 4 really good ones that I am willing to put on my website or even here.
It just seemed weird the way she acted, I can't help but want to tell her this other photographer is either lying to her about how many he took or that not every photographer is going to give you every single photograph, especially ones that are almost doubles or someone was closing their eyes or someone looked constipated...... 18 good ones is a good number for an hour long session.

That's exactly how you explain it. Eyes closed. Bad pose. Poor lighting. Bad facial expression. Etc. Stress you seek quality and not every photograph can be perfect.

A mother will think every photograph is perfect of their child. And they especially love the goofy ones, or weird faces, things we take for granted, but define the child to the parent and they latch to those real fast and ignore the nicely posed ones you would choose.

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link) :: Canon 17-40L For Sale

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texkam
"Just let me be a stupid photographer."
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1,116 posts
Joined Mar 2012
By The Lake in Big D
May 03, 2017 01:21 |  #9

Give the friend what they want. Learn from this experience. Manage expectations in the future.




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A friend wants to see ALL the photos.........
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