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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk
Thread started 02 May 2017 (Tuesday) 23:40
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Green Box vs M/Av/Tv

 
aezoss
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May 02, 2017 23:40 |  #1

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18344584 (external link)
So I see a new thread forming...

- Take a shot of a scene in green box
- Take control of the shot and shoot in Av, Tv or even manual and see if you can get a better more creative result, but must have the same focal length and perspective otherwise the comparison is moot.

Post EXIF for both, and describe what you like more in the less automated image. :D

I'm genuinely curious to see the results. My outcome below.

Lee




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aezoss
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Post has been last edited 4 months ago by aezoss. 3 edits done in total.
May 02, 2017 23:48 |  #2

Greyhound

Twilight through chain link fence. Used YN622C-TX AF assist, wouldn't focus otherwise. Images are jpg sooc, resized in Faststone Capture. No PS/LR.

1. A+ / Scene Intelligent Auto (Green Box). Point and shoot. Focused on the fence. Uncertain how the meter arrived at this exposure. Multiple shots produced the same result. Unusable.

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2. Manual. Image passable at best. Single point AF through gap in fence. Should have chosen a warmer WB and increased ISO one stop. The RAW file is salvageable. Manual mode at this time of day requires constant attention to exposure required as ambient light decreases. A Sony sensor could be advantageous for recovering the underexposed shot. A competent auto mode would be nice for moments where a snapshot is all that is needed.
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aezoss
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May 02, 2017 23:54 |  #3

Surveillance

1. A+ / Scene Intelligent Auto (Green Box). Point and shoot. Strange choice of ISO and shutter speed.

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2. M. Stopped down to f/2. Set 2500k WB. High ISO and 1/100 sec to control camera shake.
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TeamSpeed
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May 03, 2017 03:28 |  #4

Interesting, nice way to kick it off! Wish I was doing some basketball shots these days to show that type of scene. I suspect the more challenging the shot, the larger the difference between a fully automatic shot vs using the more manual modes.


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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May 03, 2017 05:46 |  #5

Yawn. Like I said in the other thread, we're all different, we shoot different things, and thus utilize different tools and modes.

What works (and is best) for one may not be for another.

And why philosophical threads like this and the other (where people debate to try to convince other people which mode is best) are almost as irrelevant as...well... this thread and the other.


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aezoss
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May 03, 2017 06:24 |  #6

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18345076 (external link)
Yawn. Like I said in the other thread, we're all different, we shoot different things, and thus utilize different tools and modes.

What works (and is best) for one may not be for another.

And why philosophical threads like this and the other (where people debate to try to convince other people which mode is best) are almost as irrelevant as...well... this thread and the other.

Not philosophical, rather an exercise in understanding how automated modes behave. The goal isn't to convince anyone of anything. Demonstration, nothing more. Someone in the other thread asked and here it is. You're welcome to contribute. If you're not into it, that's cool.




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saea501
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May 03, 2017 06:51 |  #7

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18345076 (external link)
Yawn. Like I said in the other thread, we're all different, we shoot different things, and thus utilize different tools and modes.

What works (and is best) for one may not be for another.

And why philosophical threads like this and the other (where people debate to try to convince other people which mode is best) are almost as irrelevant as...well... this thread and the other.

If these threads are so 'irrelevant' and boring to you why do you bother to comment at all?

I think this is a pretty interesting experiment.


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TeamSpeed
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Post has been last edited 4 months ago by TeamSpeed. 7 edits done in total.
May 03, 2017 07:18 |  #8

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18345076 (external link)
Yawn. Like I said in the other thread, we're all different, we shoot different things, and thus utilize different tools and modes.

What works (and is best) for one may not be for another.

And why philosophical threads like this and the other (where people debate to try to convince other people which mode is best) are almost as irrelevant as...well... this thread and the other.

There is absolutely nothing philosophical here. The programming under the covers in the camera for the green box mode very seldom makes exactly the right decisions, and this thread can show what to expect from 100% auto to taking matters into your own hands. Please stop following this thread if you don't want to contribute. I would think if these things bore you, you would be better served doing other things more interesting or educational.

Nothing good ever seems to follow a reply that starts with "Yawn....". :D It's much like trying to win a debate by blurting out "but your momma...".


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Tom ­ Reichner
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May 03, 2017 09:11 |  #9

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18345076 (external link)
And why philosophical threads like this and the other (where people debate to try to convince other people which mode is best) are almost as irrelevant as...well... this thread and the other.

I actually love philosophical threads, and philosophical discussions. In fact, they are the reason that I frequent POTN. Philosophical banter increases my enjoyment of photography, and also of life in general.

Don't be a sourpuss!

.


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kf095
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May 03, 2017 10:38 |  #10

My Panasonic P&S has only auto. :mrgreen:

IMAGE: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/57736/U57736I1457754014.SEQ.0.jpg


It might be interesting thread for beginners.
"This is low light shot of the moto sport, in auto the racing car is blurred. This is the car in focus in AV mode, but somehow ;-)a the image is dark. And this is paning in Tv mode. Car is sharp, background is blurred!".
Like I was with my first DSLR in 2008. Green Box on Canon 500D was total fiasco, absolutely worse than on camera I mentioned above and comparing to more advanced Fuji P&S which has all modes, but does in well in Auto for regular pictures. So, back in 2008 after two weeks of frustration with green box on 500D, I went M for almost one year. Now my daughter is doing the same. Her 5D MKII is set to M. She is learning about exposure.

It is all in the camera manual, but it is easier to learn it hard way. :-D

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OhLook
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May 03, 2017 11:13 |  #11

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18345191 (external link)
I actually love philosophical threads, and philosophical discussions. In fact, they are the reason that I frequent POTN.

Thank you, Tom. You have justified my existence here.


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sjones
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May 03, 2017 11:53 |  #12

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18345076 (external link)
Yawn. Like I said in the other thread, we're all different, we shoot different things, and thus utilize different tools and modes.

What works (and is best) for one may not be for another.

And why philosophical threads like this and the other (where people debate to try to convince other people which mode is best) are almost as irrelevant as...well... this thread and the other.


Actually, this thread and the other centered more on technique or methodology more so than they did philosophy. Ironically, your input has more of a philosophical tone than the threads you’re attacking. And really, if we were to remove all threads on this site that generate mere opinion, POTN would be a remarkably anemic forum.

I suppose we could just use POTN as an online repository for spec sheet PDFs and nothing else.

Anyway, you are correct that all of this is largely subjective, and any definitive outcome will remain perpetually elusive.

And absolutely, I agree 100 percent that “we're all different, we shoot different things, and thus utilize different tools and modes.” And so it can be exasperating when someone does try to push a subjective opinion as though it were universal truth, and yes, this unfortunately does occur frequently.

However, not all people have such a totalitarian agenda, and not all people are impervious to new ideas. People change, grow, and learn. That is, let's not piss on everyone because of a few proverbial bad apples. Sometimes you've got to navigate around the crap to find the good.

Newcomers, in particular, can benefit greatly from reading about different viewpoints, even if there is no specific right or wrong presented…maybe something that fits their personal need or style was unknown to them until coming across one of these threads.

For me, condyk’s early threads on manual focus lenses encouraged me to try one, something I would have probably never considered beforehand. This opened a door that eventually led to my current use of a rangefinder and film—again, something that was unimaginable at that time that I bought my 350D.

Extended discussion can also clarify misinterpretations, a pervasive problem in written communication. I've been guilty of wrongly addressing other members because I misunderstood their point. Through further explanation, I realized it was I who was on the wrong path.

But more importantly, not all of these discussions aim to jam one’s opinion down the throats of others. In many cases, they, or at least some of the participants, just present a new approach, an alternative thought, something different to consider. The reader then has the right to incorporate or reject these ideas or processes.

As for actual philosophical discussion and even debate, especially in the realm of art appreciation, history, and associated motivational or inspirational factors, such discussion is invaluable as far as I’m concerned. Obviously, others, many others, will feel differently.

But to discourage complete discussion of art, which is a major defining component of culture and society, just because such discourse is replete with subjectivity is to indulge in regressive anti-intellectualism, which is already far too widespread among humanity.


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TeamSpeed
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May 03, 2017 12:06 |  #13

1) Green box is a programmatic setting in the camera that is a carry over from P&S, however with a DSLR, the configuration limits for what the state engine decides for settings might be more opened up due to that camera's featureset.

2) Results from green box vs the other modes is more subjective when conditions are good. Go to a zoo on a sunny day, and rarely will you be able to get better pics in manual than green box, or at least results will be close enough to start "arguments".

3) Green box results become much less subjective the more challenging the scene, to the point green box is useless. Shoot an evening game, or indoor drama, where either a) the flash is useless or b) flash is prohibited. There, in-camera settings, and judicious use of shutter/aperture/ISO will shine over the programming constraints of green box, where it quickly becomes deficient.

This thread can serve a useful role in showing where green box works very well (to give those that use it a majority of time or periodically an idea of when it will help), and where you are better off taking matters into your hands.

We are demonstrating the limitations of a fully automated system vs a system where you start to take control to produce better results, provided you have the understanding, skills and experience to do that.

So let's see more examples? I should have some photo ops this week to try out green box mode to see what happens vs how I shoot things.


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DreDaze
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May 03, 2017 12:38 |  #14

What about post processing? Is green box shot just sooc, and the other shot processed as you normally would?


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aezoss
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May 03, 2017 13:08 |  #15

DreDaze wrote in post #18345363 (external link)
What about post processing? Is green box shot just sooc, and the other shot processed as you normally would?

For this discussion I think green box shot should be sooc jpg. M/Av/Tv shot can be either sooc or post processed.

Lee




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Green Box vs M/Av/Tv
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