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Thread started 12 May 2017 (Friday) 11:19
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Oil and gas drilling in National Monuments

 
OldCrow
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May 12, 2017 11:19 |  #1

Hi All,

You may have heard that many National Monuments are going to be reviewed for opening them to oil and gas drilling.

Document can be read here:https://www.regulation​s.gov/document?D=DOI-2017-0002-0001 (external link)

Many of the National Monuments are photographers havens. If you have been to the National Monuments or have seen photos of them, you have an opinion about their value. Let the Department of Interior how you feel.

There are two ways to express you opinions.

1) Online: Online site opens today. May 12, 2017

http://www.regulations​.gov (external link) then enter "DOI-2017-0002" in he search bar.

2) Mail:

Monument Review , MS - 1530
U.S. Department of Interior
1849 C Street NW.
Washington, DC 20240


Don
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Wilt
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Post has been edited 6 months ago by Wilt.
May 12, 2017 12:23 |  #2

Q: What kind of development is allowed in a national monument?

A: National monuments protect “existing rights,” meaning, whatever you did there before it was protected as a national monument, you can probably still do after it is designated. This includes previously-existing:

Oil and gas leases
Access to private property
Valid mining claims
Roads and utility infrastructure
Livestock grazing

So in terms of any consideration of exploiting oil/gas rights, if they are already being utilized in that manner, they can CONTINUE to be so used. So the real issue is whether any of the areas under review would be candidates for NEW drilling. Do we know if ANY of the current Monument designated areas are ones in which oil/gas resources are known to exist?!
While What-his-name's desire is to increase America's independence from Middle East sources, at the same time it merely continues the depletion of a non-renewable energy source with a continued contribution to global climate change.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post has been last edited 6 months ago by Left Handed Brisket. 2 edits done in total.
May 12, 2017 12:53 |  #3

Wilt wrote in post #18352939 (external link)

Q: What kind of development is allowed in a national monument?

A: National monuments protect “existing rights,” meaning, whatever you did there before it was protected as a national monument, you can probably still do after it is designated. This includes previously-existing:

Oil and gas leases
Access to private property
Valid mining claims
Roads and utility infrastructure
Livestock grazing

So in terms of any consideration of exploiting oil/gas rights, if they are already being utilized in that manner, they can CONTINUE to be so used. So the real issue is whether any of the areas under review would be candidates for NEW drilling. Do we know if ANY of the current Monument designated areas are ones in which oil/gas resources are known to exist?! While What-his-name's desire is to increase America's independence from Middle East sources, at the same time it merely continues the depletion of a non-renewable energy source with a continued contribution to global climate change.

None of that is relevant if the planned review spurs further executive orders or legislation that nullify the existing legal statutes pertaining to any of these monuments.


Also, keeping specific politicians' names out of this discussion might help keep the thread from being locked.

:D

Hopefully this can be a worthwhile discussion that omits partisan politics.

I for one think this "review" is silly.


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Wilt
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May 12, 2017 15:56 as a reply to Left Handed Brisket's post |  #4

Whats-his-name's name has been removed, if you will edit if from your quote!

I recall hearing some sentiment about 'too much government land grab' mentioned in a news highlight, but never heard the full story. Is this National Monument review fundamentally a 'too much government involvement' sentiment that wants to nullify what has previously been set in place by prececessors, an 'undo'?! Or is it, as stated in the thread title, related to development of energy resources? And does what the citizens want have anything to do with anything?...or what citizens want means little. In CA the citizenry support the moratorium on offshore drilling due to environmental reasons, yet that seems to be getting undone as well.

What are the expressed and the unstated motivations behind this review of monuments?


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Sibil
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May 12, 2017 16:01 |  #5

Hey Don. Thanks for the info.




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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post has been edited 6 months ago by Left Handed Brisket.
May 12, 2017 16:41 as a reply to Wilt's post |  #6

My understanding is that how these lands are managed is SUPPOSED to mirror the desires of the public and the process of having public input is an official requirement.

How much weight does the public carry?

How much weight does industry carry?

This is the charcoal grey area that individual administrations work within, for both land management or even FDA/USDA stuff.

Here in NC, I don't think there is any legal requirement for the general assembly to really weigh the public input with things like offshore drilling. This is a hot topic over here too. They give some lip service to it, but ultimately they are not bound to do anything. Whereas with these federal lands I beleive there is at least some requirement to be consistant with public sentiment.

Probably worth the effort to speak your mind ... If it is something that concerns you.


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Wilt
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Post has been edited 6 months ago by Wilt.
May 12, 2017 16:50 |  #7

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18353154 (external link)
Probably worth the effort to speak your mind ... If it is something that concerns you.

I went to the links, and nothing was mentioned with regard to natural resource development...only stated was the fact a review was taking place at all. So I have to ask OP why the thread topic is specifically raising issue of oil and gas drilling, when National Monuments which already have that happening can continue to have it happen...IS there some new development, not currently in place, which is on the horizon for some/all of the named National Monuments?

I know some national monuments seem to be in the 'middle of nowhere' and are desolate areas not obviously of interest to photographers; maybe they have some historic or cultural significance.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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May 12, 2017 17:06 |  #8

Ultimately this review may reverse the designation of certain plots completely. This is almost unheard of since the 1906 legislation that gave this power to the president.

Most unbiased reporting I could find relatively quickly:

http://mobile.reuters.​com/article/idUSKBN17S​1MH (external link)


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OldCrow
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May 12, 2017 17:06 |  #9

It seems the DOI review looks to open up more public land to new drilling for oil and gas.

More info on this matter from the Sierra Club.

http://sierraclub.org ...-protections-public-lands (external link)

http://sierraclub.org ...ng-zinke-s-listening-tour (external link)


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Jeff ­ Hanson
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Post has been last edited 5 months ago by Jeff Hanson. 2 edits done in total.
May 24, 2017 13:56 |  #10

I don't want to be perceived as taking a position against "National Monuments" (and I'm also not shilling for energy companies), but I think the term is misleading in the context of concern that important cultural, archeological or geographical areas are going to be put up for grabs. Let's face it, nobody is putting an oil rig in front of Half Dome or hollowing out the Devil's Tower for minerals and precious metals.

Many people are fighting for their livelihoods in these areas. Most of the land is in places no photographer will ever go because there's nothing of interest, but if the mine can't expand, or the cattle can't graze, these people don't have jobs. No one enjoys going to the wide open spaces more than me, but I don't think it's fair to take a position that boxes the people who actually have to live there into a more and more difficult situation.




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David ­ Arbogast
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Post has been last edited 5 months ago by David Arbogast. 3 edits done in total.
Jun 01, 2017 13:38 |  #11

I just think it's painfully short-sighted to value a few oil, gas, and coal jobs that would benefit relatively few people more than trying to do everything in our power to avert a mounting global catastrophe (human-assisted climate change) that can eventually destroy us all. Makes no sense to me.


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Jeff ­ Hanson
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by Jeff Hanson.
Jun 01, 2017 21:03 as a reply to David Arbogast's post |  #12

Ok, but since the weather can't be predicted accurately a week out, how about we start with something simple, like protecting children from abuse, the opioid crisis, global terrorism or the like. Hell, there were over 760 murders in my general vicinity last year, and if we could get that down to about 20 I would commit all my free time to preventing climate change. I promise no one on the south side of Chicago is worried about climate change. That's an upper middle class concern.

It's funny that people whose jobs won't have to be "eliminated" to protect us from climate change seem to be a lot more dedicated to the cause.




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Naturalist
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Jun 01, 2017 21:22 |  #13

The sky is falling...we're all going to have to learn to tread water....oil and gas exploration in national parks....

WHATEVER

Geeze. Can we move on to a photo topic please?


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Jeff ­ Hanson
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Jun 01, 2017 21:23 as a reply to Naturalist's post |  #14

Point taken.




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David ­ Arbogast
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Jun 01, 2017 23:34 |  #15

Naturalist wrote in post #18368752 (external link)
The sky is falling...we're all going to have to learn to tread water....oil and gas exploration in national parks....

WHATEVER

Geeze. Can we move on to a photo topic please?

I agree that this NOT the place to discuss politics, but Jeff Hanson chose to make a politically charged post. I chose to express my disagreement because he is 100% wrong. But, let's indeed leave politics aside and get back to photography.


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