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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras
Thread started 17 May 2017 (Wednesday) 23:21
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3rd Party batteries and 5D4

 
Talley
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May 29, 2017 09:14 |  #31

I swear by Wasabi.

Years ago I had a canon battery go dead so I sacrificed a wasabi battery and cracked both open. Now the cells were different color, the wasabi where green while canon blue, but later had another wasabi I cracked open that had the blue batteries. I did not note part numbers.

However the chip on top of the batteries of BOTH canon and wasabi were IDENTICAL. Not sure about the programming within the chips but the physical chips had same part number, the board same part number, the pcb and the wiring in the pcb were identical.

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BigAl007
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May 29, 2017 12:17 |  #32

The thing with Mean Time Between Failure statistics is that, assuming the distribution is Gaussian as it should be, half of all the batteries will fail before the stated time. Since for a Gaussian distribution the mean and the median values should be very close together. If you are really very lucky all your batteries will be right out in the righthand tail, lasting way longer than average. But for every battery out there, there will be another one that is out in the left hand tail, that fails way before average. A Gaussian distribution graph has the classic bell curve.

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Lbsimon
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May 29, 2017 14:10 |  #33

Talley wrote in post #18365610 (external link)
I swear by Wasabi.

Years ago I had a canon battery go dead so I sacrificed a wasabi battery and cracked both open. Now the cells were different color, the wasabi where green while canon blue, but later had another wasabi I cracked open that had the blue batteries. I did not note part numbers.

However the chip on top of the batteries of BOTH canon and wasabi were IDENTICAL. Not sure about the programming within the chips but the physical chips had same part number, the board same part number, the pcb and the wiring in the pcb were identical.

It just confirms what I have been saying here all along: Most of battery brands are manufactured by the same OEMs, using the same cells and same circuitry for Canon, Wasabi, Watson, etc. Some are slightly different, packing (or maybe just declaring) different storage capacity.


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Ascenta
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Jul 18, 2017 08:07 |  #34

I bought this Sterlingtek based on many good Amazon reviews: https://www.amazon.com​/gp/product/B005DEHVC8 (external link)

But after last night I'm not so sure. I've used/charged it a few times now, and last night it was at 50% so I decided to top it off. When it was fully charged, my charger said it put about 500mAh into it. So that would mean the battery's capacity is around 1000mAh. NOT 2600mAh. That's a huge difference!

I understand the best way to determine capacity is to do a discharge from 100%, but my charger does not do that. But since Li-Ion chargers don't typically overcharge, I think this is enough proof for me. Even if it wasn't exactly at 50% and the charger stopped short, 1000mAh vs 2600mAh isn't even close. I'll be generous and call this a 1200mAh cell...well under Canon's 1865mAh.




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TeamSpeed
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Post has been last edited 4 months ago by TeamSpeed. 2 edits done in total.
Jul 18, 2017 08:23 |  #35

Ascenta wrote in post #18404764 (external link)
I bought this Sterlingtek based on many good Amazon reviews: https://www.amazon.com​/gp/product/B005DEHVC8 (external link)

But after last night I'm not so sure. I've used/charged it a few times now, and last night it was at 50% so I decided to top it off. When it was fully charged, my charger said it put about 500mAh into it. So that would mean the battery's capacity is around 1000mAh. NOT 2600mAh. That's a huge difference!

I understand the best way to determine capacity is to do a discharge from 100%, but my charger does not do that. But since Li-Ion chargers don't typically overcharge, I think this is enough proof for me. Even if it wasn't exactly at 50% and the charger stopped short, 1000mAh vs 2600mAh isn't even close. I'll be generous and call this a 1200mAh cell...well under Canon's 1865mAh.

I am guessing the charger is telling you what it is charging it at, not what it added to the battery as total capacity? Also, you want to use the aftermarket chargers, they charge the batteries up better than the Canon charger.


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Ascenta
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Post has been last edited 4 months ago by Ascenta. 2 edits done in total.
Jul 18, 2017 08:32 |  #36

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18404772 (external link)
I am guessing the charger is telling you what it is charging it at, not what it added to the battery as total capacity? Also, you want to use the aftermarket chargers, they charge the batteries up better than the Canon charger.

It is an aftermarket, and it does tell how much it put in (mAh) and at what rate (mA).

I'm running down my battery to 0% right now to do another test. Of course, when you want to kill a battery, it takes forever!




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TeamSpeed
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Jul 18, 2017 08:37 |  #37

Watson, Pearson, Fotga? I think the first 2 are just rebrands of the same charger. Do these work well with the OE batteries?


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Lbsimon
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Jul 18, 2017 09:02 |  #38

Ascenta wrote in post #18404764 (external link)
I bought this Sterlingtek based on many good Amazon reviews: https://www.amazon.com​/gp/product/B005DEHVC8 (external link)

But after last night I'm not so sure. I've used/charged it a few times now, and last night it was at 50% so I decided to top it off. When it was fully charged, my charger said it put about 500mAh into it. So that would mean the battery's capacity is around 1000mAh. NOT 2600mAh. That's a huge difference!

I understand the best way to determine capacity is to do a discharge from 100%, but my charger does not do that. But since Li-Ion chargers don't typically overcharge, I think this is enough proof for me. Even if it wasn't exactly at 50% and the charger stopped short, 1000mAh vs 2600mAh isn't even close. I'll be generous and call this a 1200mAh cell...well under Canon's 1865mAh.

Just curious, how did you know that the charger added 500 mAh? My Canon chargers do not have this capacity.


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Ascenta
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Post has been last edited 4 months ago by Ascenta. 5 edits done in total.
Jul 18, 2017 09:14 |  #39

Lbsimon wrote in post #18404798 (external link)
Just curious, how did you know that the charger added 500 mAh? My Canon chargers do not have this capacity.

I used a Nitecore UCN1. I counts the mAh added in real time, and the total after charging has completed. Not necessary, but just nice to know.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18404781 (external link)
Watson, Pearson, Fotga? I think the first 2 are just rebrands of the same charger. Do these work well with the OE batteries?

Seems to work fine from what I can tell. Also has a temperature readout and never seems to get more than "slightly warm" on the charger. The camera also registers at or close to 100% after a charge, so hopefully I can trust that.

Update: I drained the battery down and it's back on the charger. Currently charging around 1000mA and 659mAh added. Hoping to get at least 2000mAh.

Update 2: Charging is done. Total mAh???? 1325mA! JUNK! Well, it's a battery and it works, but I hate being tricked and lied to. I'll go back to my OEM Canon 1800mAh pack and keep this for a backup. How does it have 2400+ mostly positive reviews?!?!?




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Lbsimon
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Jul 18, 2017 16:25 as a reply to Ascenta's post |  #40

I don't know anything about this charger, but I want to ask: Do you trust it more than the battery?


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Ascenta
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Post has been last edited 4 months ago by Ascenta. 4 edits done in total.
Jul 19, 2017 07:09 |  #41

Lbsimon wrote in post #18405192 (external link)
I don't know anything about this charger, but I want to ask: Do you trust it more than the battery?

Yes. I've been using Nitecore flashlights and chargers for years. There are also people, 10000x smarter than me, who review chargers as a hobby that you would think is their full-time job. Very detailed and unbiased (electrical engineers with way too much time on their hands). In general, they make pretty good chargers.

But it comes down to simple math really. 1325mAh added with a nearly constant 1000mA charge rate (it falls off towards the end). There's nothing tricky going on here. I watched it add 1mAh at a time, as the voltage climbed and meter got closer to 100%. Very close to the OEM cell...just not as good.

Simply put: when you have a depleted battery, charge it at 1000mAh and it's done charging to 100% in about 90 minutes, you don't have a 2600mAh battery. The absolute maximum you could have is 1500mAh, but the 1325mAh makes sense since the charge rate decreases towards the end of charging on Li-Ion cells like I mentioned above.




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TeamSpeed
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Jul 19, 2017 07:19 |  #42

We have had tear downs of the factory vs Wasabi batteries, and the same cells were found in both. Not sure about Sterlingtek, but as a general rule, people found that the Sterlingtek would often outlast the factory battery. You could always try that test, or contact Sterlingtek, they are pretty good about replacing batteries. Perhaps a replacement would behave more to your liking?


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Ascenta
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Post has been edited 4 months ago by Ascenta.
Jul 19, 2017 07:21 |  #43

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18405693 (external link)
Perhaps a replacement would behave more to your liking?

At this point I'd rather throw in the towel. Spend my money on an OEM if I really need another battery. But at this point, this STK will serve as well as a backup.

I just get irritated at fake capacities. I deal with this a lot with flashlights and 18650 li-ion cells..."6000 mAh" when in fact that is possible. They still sell like hotcakes online, many filled with sand to make them "feel" authentic.




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Lbsimon
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Jul 19, 2017 07:22 as a reply to Ascenta's post |  #44

Thanks for the info, as I said, I never heard of this charger. I will check it out, sounds useful.


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Lbsimon
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Jul 19, 2017 07:35 |  #45

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18405693 (external link)
We have had tear downs of the factory vs Wasabi batteries, and the same cells were found in both. Not sure about Sterlingtek, but as a general rule, people found that the Sterlingtek would often outlast the factory battery. You could always try that test, or contact Sterlingtek, they are pretty good about replacing batteries. Perhaps a replacement would behave more to your liking?

This is what I have been saying here all along - there are not many cell manufacturers in the world. Panasonic, Sony, Samsung are probably the biggest, and they supply them to many battery pack manufacturers. Then there are Pylon, A123, NEC, Phat, and a few others, who are also vendors to many battery companies. Canon does not make cells nor does it build batteries. As a rule, any large manufacturer like Canon has to have at least two suppliers of battery packs, and each battery pack manufacturer has to have at least two sources of the cells.

That all means that one as easily gets a faulty OEM battery as a third party one. Remember Samsung Note7 cell phone fires? It happened with batteries from two different manufacturers.

My recommendation - keep buying third party batteries, and replace them when they fail. Still cheaper in the long run that OEM's, and no guarantee that Canon brand means a peace of mind.

BTW, a part of my everyday job is managing battery testing for my employer's (a very large company) suppliers.


5D Mark IV | 6D | S110
EF 17-40L | EF 24-105L (two) | EF 70-200L F4 IS | EF 100-400L II | EF 85 1.8 | EF 50 1.8 STM | Canon 1.4x III | Canon 1.4x II
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3rd Party batteries and 5D4
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