Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos HDR Creation
Thread started 05 Jun 2017 (Monday) 10:39
Prev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

Light bloom due to over exposure twilight building photography

 
Timza
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Jun 05, 2017 10:39 |  #1

I am not as much in to surreal HDR as I am in using exposure blending for exterior twilight building photography. I have been experimenting with taking a series of different exposures outside say a business in the evening blue hour. And I have noticed that there is this wonderful time when a slight under exposure gets a great dark blue sky and a normal exposure gets a nice warm interior exposure. But, if I take an over exposure at that same time to get the exterior wall exposure what I want, then the exterior lights and business name signage bloom with a light glow cloud that I can not then later remove in post. And I have tried different methods and exposures to solve this.

I think I have the solution. And I don't like it. And I want to run it by you (plural group non gender specific).

I think that I need an exposure for the exterior walls and lights and signage earlier in the evening, then an exposure for the interior lighting glow later in the evening, and then either an underexposure for the sky or an even later exposure for the sky.

Which means that I can not just bop down the street with my tripod taking bracketed twilight photographs of multiple businesses in one evening.

I just said a four letter word.

I think I need to take exposures over a longer time period from the same place instead of multiple under and over exposures at the same time, and then I think I need to blend in Photoshop instead of merge in Photomatix Pro. Do you agree? Do you have any other advice? I think I am almost there with the methodology and I just need to practice practice practice, but I wanted to get some conformation / advice / encouragement.




LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)
Timza
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Jun 05, 2017 10:49 |  #2

I realize that there will be someone who will say to just wait until the perfect time and take one photograph and don't waste my time blending. Maybe that would work for some situations, but during my practice I really think I need exposures during at least two times.

Scenario one:

Time 1, exposure 1 = normal exposure when the exterior lighting and exterior building surface and interior warm lighting exposure match.
Time 2, exposure 2 = later in the evening when a normal or under exposure will give me a deep blue sky.

Scenario two:

Time 1, exposure 1 = normal exposure when the exterior lighting and exterior building surface exposure match.
Time 2, exposure 2 = normal exposure when the exterior walls are darker and the interior lighting glows.
Time 2 (same time as above), exposure 3 = under exposure for the sky to be deep blue

Scenario three:

Time 1, exposure 1 = normal exposure when the exterior lighting and exterior building surface exposure match.
Time 2, exposure 2 = normal exposure when the exterior walls are darker and the interior lighting glows.
Time 3, exposure 3 = normal or under exposure for the sky to be deep blue.




LOG IN TO REPLY
kirkt
Cream of the Crop
5,408 posts
Joined Feb 2008
Philadelphia, PA USA
Jun 05, 2017 13:32 |  #3

An example image that demonstrates the specific issue you are having would be very helpful. There are many ways to target specific tonal areas and repair or modify them.

kirk


Kirk
---
images: http://kirkt.smugmug.c​omexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
Timza
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Post has been last edited 6 months ago by Timza. 3 edits done in total.
Jun 05, 2017 16:42 |  #4

The examples below are each from 5 bracketed shots, 2 stops apart, merged in Photomatix Pro, Exposure Fusion, Natural.

Look at the white fog around the Mathnasium sign:

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



LOG IN TO REPLY
Timza
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Post has been last edited 6 months ago by Timza. 3 edits done in total.
Jun 05, 2017 16:44 |  #5

Look at the white fog around the exterior street lights and how blown out the exterior wall lights are:

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



LOG IN TO REPLY
Timza
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Post has been last edited 6 months ago by Timza. 2 edits done in total.
Jun 05, 2017 16:48 |  #6

On this one there is some fog and glare from the wall lights that are mounted about 8 feet above the sidewalk, below the beginning and end of the right HOB NOB sign:

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



LOG IN TO REPLY
kirkt
Cream of the Crop
5,408 posts
Joined Feb 2008
Philadelphia, PA USA
Post has been edited 6 months ago by kirkt.
Jun 06, 2017 09:31 |  #7

Thank you for the examples. There are a few ways to combat this kind of artifact. First, your camera set up and equipment - the lens you use and the aperture settings you employ can make a significant difference. If you shoot a lot of this kind of scene, consider a highly corrected lens that will reduce flare. In addition to the "blooming" you demonstrate around light sources, these images have significant lens flare artifacts - flare not only causes ugly patterns of color across an image, but also reduces contrast. Also. make sure the front and rear elements of your lens are clean! Also, if you shoot with a UV filter or some similar filter in front of your lens (maybe just to protect the front element) remove it. Each additional layer of glass or muck can cause the diffusion and flare of light that you are trying to fight.

Consider playing around with aperture to change the appearance of the point light sources - the EXIF data for your posted images shows that you shot at f/5.6 - consider shooting at a smaller aperture (f/8 or smaller) to tighten up the stars that point light sources will produce via diffraction. I do not know if the lenses you use make nice stars.

In terms of dealing with this issue in post, you probably have some exposures where the areas around light sources are more well controlled (your more underexposed images) - you can convert the (raw, right?) image file that has these nice point lights separately and put it on a layer over your working image - use a mask to brush in the nice point lights onto the working composite image. Instead of suffering through brushing in by hand, make a luminosity mask using the comp image, targeting the bright areas and apply that mask to the underexposed image to let the nice point lights get layered onto the comp.

Contrary to popular belief, producing an HDR image is rarely the result of simply using a single piece of software to merge and tonemap a set of images to a final result. To produce a final image, one often must do some standard image processing and editing on the output produced by an HDR app. If each of your images requires the kind of intervention and editing I described, then making it as simple and automated as possible will be a real timesaver - that is, using a luminosity mask to place the nice point lights on the comp versus hand brushing on a mask to composite each point light.

Give it a shot and post the results here!

Also, if you don't mind, post a link to a problematic image sequence (like the ones above) - use Dropbox, etc. to post an archive of the raw files and we can take a stab at dealing with the issue in post.

good luck.

kirk


Kirk
---
images: http://kirkt.smugmug.c​omexternal link

LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Left Handed Brisket's Avatar
Joined Jun 2011
The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Jun 06, 2017 10:20 |  #8

something going on with the lens was my first reaction too.

might be a filter, might be dirty elements, might just be the way this lens renders those type highlights.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 2x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

LOG IN TO REPLY
Timza
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Post has been last edited 6 months ago by Timza. 2 edits done in total.
Jun 06, 2017 20:46 |  #9

Straight out of the camera. Tonight. 2 stops under exposed. Excellent sky. I am absolutely there at the decisive moment. The interior lighting is ok. Building exterior too dark. Very little light bloom around the Mathnasium sign. You would think that all I would need is a good exposure for the building exterior.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



LOG IN TO REPLY
Timza
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Post has been last edited 6 months ago by Timza. 3 edits done in total.
Jun 06, 2017 20:49 |  #10

Straight out of the camera. Tonight. 1 stop over exposed. Good building exterior exposure. The Mathnasium sign has a light bloom around it. So when I merge five files that were exposed one stop apart in Photomatix Pro, the more that I try to move the Photomax Pro sliders to lighten the building exterior walls, the more the Mathnasium sign blooms and the more color I lose from the sky.

Front and rear of lens cleaned. No filter on front of lens.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



LOG IN TO REPLY
Timza
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Post has been last edited 6 months ago by Timza. 6 edits done in total.
Jun 06, 2017 21:06 |  #11

So then this is the best I could do, straight out of Photomatix Pro. I like the exposure of the exterior brick. I like the interior lighting exposure. I could work on the sky and brick color and exposure more in Ps or Lr. I could do a gradient to darken the top of the sky and another gradient to darken the bottom of the parking lot. I feel like I am learning and getting better, but that Mathnasium sign is still blooming. There is a slight white fog around the Mathnasium and Dimensions signage.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Left Handed Brisket's Avatar
Joined Jun 2011
The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Jun 07, 2017 03:27 |  #12

How are you focusing?

I suspect that DoF would be great enough to focus on the building and let the sky still be sharp. However if you focus on the sky, the foreground wouldn't be sharp. That might lead to, or contribute to, what you are seeing here.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 2x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

LOG IN TO REPLY
Timza
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Timza's Avatar
130 posts
Joined Jan 2016
Post has been last edited 6 months ago by Timza. 5 edits done in total.
Jun 07, 2017 15:42 |  #13

Back button autofocus on the MA+HNASIUM sign by moving the focus point to that sign while keeping the camera in the exact same position as for when the shots were taken. (No focus and recompose. Focus function was removed from the shutter button.) All shots taken with the same focus and aperture. Manual. Raw. Tripod. Cleaned the front of the lens and back of the lens with glasses wipe from those foil packs. Allowed the back of the lens to dry before putting the lens on the camera. No screw in filter on the front of the lens. This lens does not have reputation of sharpness, but it is in focus. Below is cropped straight out of the camera saved to jpg showing the image in the series with the least bloom, showing that it is in focus.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.
Even though I would like to have a solution that would allow me to take more than one twilight image each evening, I have proposed that the solution is for me to get a photograph earlier in the evening where the exterior signage and exterior wall exposure is balanced. Like the below. And then a photograph later in the evening for the more intense sky colors. The below image was also taken with a sharper lens. But the sky at this earlier time did not have the intense darker colors, so an image would need to be taken later for the sky.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Left Handed Brisket's Avatar
Joined Jun 2011
The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Jun 07, 2017 16:12 |  #14

there is just too much weird stuff going on for me to think it is an exposure issue.

top rectangle looks like it is caused by the green light.

lower left might be the great clips logo

lower right might be a "w" from wing stop

I am by no means an expert, but i really just feel it is an issue with the lens. Maybe just your copy of it, maybe it just isn't a great design.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 2x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Left Handed Brisket's Avatar
Joined Jun 2011
The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Jun 07, 2017 16:25 |  #15

just figured it out.

i copied the one area and reflected it horizontally and vertically to put it over the weird areas. It is a perfect match.

something's wrong with that lens that is causing the "blooming" and the weird reflections.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 2x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as registered member)

2,892 views & 4 likes for this thread
Light bloom due to over exposure twilight building photography
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos HDR Creation


Not a member yet? Click here to register to the forums.
Registered members get all the features: search, following threads, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, settings, view hosted photos, own reviews and more...


AAA

Send feedback to staff    •   Jump to forum...    •   Rules    •   Index    •   New posts    •   RTAT    •   'Best of'    •   Gallery    •   Gear    •   Reviews    •   Polls

COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Privacy policy and cookie usage info.

POWERED BY AMASS 1.4version 1.4
made in Finland
by Pekka Saarinen
for photography-on-the.net
Spent 0.00122 for 4 database queries.
PAGE COMPLETED IN 0.04s
Latest registered member is bburnett71
906 guests, 441 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017