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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands
Thread started 26 Jun 2017 (Monday) 10:47
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Wanting 4k Capable camera - currently using 7D2 - advise?

 
javapop
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Jun 26, 2017 10:47 |  #1

Many options out there of course. I currently use a 7D2 with a 70-200 f/2.8 IS, the 24-105 and a Tokina 11-16 f2.8.

I shoot sports for my local paper so I really need to stick with canon glass, at least my long zoom; but I'll need snappy focus still.

Options are Sony - maybe the earlier versions like the A7r, but glass is really pricey, the 5D4 which is really far out of the budget,
The GH4 seems to still be a competitor. Wondering if in the long run, maybe finding a used 5D4 may be the best bet.

Looking to probably sell the 7D2, the Tokina and the 24-105. Will try to pick up a 50 prime and probably a 24-70 2.8. The Tokina is pretty amazing; but I realize since it's a APS-C lens, may have to find something else to replace it with.

Any advise?


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davesrose
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Jun 26, 2017 12:20 |  #2

Does it have to be a stills camera? Maybe you can supplement the 7D2 with a dedicated camcorder. Now that the Canon XC15 is out, prices on the XC10 have dropped.

the-10-best-4k-cameras-in-2017 (external link)


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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javapop
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Jun 26, 2017 12:50 as a reply to davesrose's post |  #3

I eventually want to have a video cam as well; but I really need something that will handle stills better, especially for the sports stuff I still do. Thanks for the suggestion on the XC10!


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Charlie
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Jun 27, 2017 09:16 |  #4

your options are sort of boxed in. Sony A6300/6500 are like your only options that can double as stills. USM lenses arent the best for video, but if you're using an external mic, then this may be less of an issue. Learning curve will be pretty high. A7r is not 4K capable, A7rii is, and that's $2000+ for camera, not including adapter. Metabones adapter is needed, and that will set you back 3-500 depending on model, can probably find for less on the used market.


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javapop
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Jun 27, 2017 16:56 as a reply to Charlie's post |  #5

really just leaning towards a used 5D4 right now. I really do like the A7rII though.


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Spacemunkie
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Post has been last edited 3 months ago by Spacemunkie. 2 edits done in total.
Jun 27, 2017 18:47 |  #6

You're out of luck with Canon unless you want to spend big money. Not convinced by the 5D4 as a video camera at all but I guess it would do if video is secondary.

Personally I'd go with a Panasonic GH4 or GH5. Still think they're the only 'still' camera that straddles the photo/video divide effectively without too many compromises.


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javapop
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Jun 27, 2017 21:11 |  #7

Spacemunkie wrote in post #18388468 (external link)
You're out of luck with Canon unless you want to spend big money. Not convinced by the 5D4 as a video camera at all but I guess it would do if video is secondary.

Personally I'd go with a Panasonic GH4 or GH5. Still think they're the only 'still' camera that straddles the photo/video divide effectively without too many compromises.

You know how canon glass adaptability is on the GH4? I reckon it may fit the bill.


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artsf
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Post has been edited 3 months ago by artsf.
Jun 27, 2017 22:58 |  #8

5div is your best bet. Best hybrid cam stills/4k: canon lenses, DPAF, AWB-W, Canon cinematic colors, battery life, superb 4k pircure grab capability (mjpeg). If you do end up with 5div, keep Tokina, it will work great on 5div for 4k video that is only available in 1.8 crop mode.

I wish there would be better alternatives but, at the moment, video AF on GH5 and Sony cams in particular are no match (low light tracking is bad). I think we'd need to wait at least another year before Canon start puttinf 4k on their APS-C came, they seem to be very protective of the DPAF 4k which is reserved for high end FF or the very expensive cinema cams for now. If you don't care about video AF as much (or tracking), I think Sony a6500 is an interesting option which should still focus quite a bit better than GH5 due to PDAF and noticeably better low light performance due to 2x sensor size.




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Spacemunkie
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Jun 28, 2017 19:37 as a reply to javapop's post |  #9

Speedbooster - but you do lose AF speed. The GH5 might be out due to AF issues but a used GH4 is cheap and suffers from none of that. Been using them for years alongside Canon, Nikon and Blackmagic cams and they have been superb tools. None of the 4K DSLR or mirrorless cams out there will continuously track fast moving objects in video perfectly, so manual focus is most often the way to go. This is exacerbated if you use telephoto lenses. The extra DOF from a smaller sensor can actually be useful for video in many situations.

If you only want one camera with video as a secondary objective, then the 5D4 makes sense. If you're going to shoot video a lot, then the GH4 is a much more useful tool IMO...


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Azathoth
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Jun 30, 2017 17:23 |  #10

Spacemunkie wrote in post #18388468 (external link)
Personally I'd go with a Panasonic GH4 or GH5. Still think they're the only 'still' camera that straddles the photo/video divide effectively without too many compromises.

^ ^


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Jul 01, 2017 10:17 |  #11

.

Spacemunkie wrote in post #18388468 (external link)
Not convinced by the 5D4 as a video camera at all but I guess it would do if video is secondary.

Spacemunkie, it seems that you and artsf, quoted below, are of very different opinions as to the 5D4's video capabilities. Would you care to elaborate on why you doubt that the 5D4 would be a capable video option for the OP?

artsf wrote in post #18388605 (external link)
5div is your best bet. Best hybrid cam stills/4k: canon lenses, DPAF, AWB-W, Canon cinematic colors, battery life, superb 4k pircure grab capability (mjpeg). If you do end up with 5div, keep Tokina, it will work great on 5div for 4k video that is only available in 1.8 crop mode.

.
.


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artsf
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Post has been last edited 3 months ago by artsf. 5 edits done in total.
Jul 01, 2017 14:50 |  #12

Easy, those who care to actually use one heavily for video will see the light.

Both 5div's 4k files as well 1080/60p look stunning and nearly in auto (TV, shutter 60, +1/3 stop, standard profile) that's it, forget color grading, incredible low ligh colors. The best color response combined with AWB-W I have ever seen on any camera simply by using Standard, Landscape, Natural or Faithful profiles. It never overheats. Great battery life, peerless video AF - no manufacturer comes close right now, you can not rely on Sony C-AF in low light - it's not even worth comparing. It is just great for family, vacation where you can use single camera with same lenses and your videos will have same look as your stills.

In short: colors, DPAF, AWB-W, EF-mount. You absolutely do not need STM lenses; 50L with its USM peoduces buttery smooth cinematic follow focus - but you have to use external mic as its motor is too loud.

Transcode mjpegs to H264 at 100 or 150 mbps and you are all set. It's such a small price to pay compared to fixing color, tonality, WB in post, not to mention junk footage due to AF or overheating madness which results in very noisy stills even at low ISO settings, or never ending battery management, etc. Watch out for 5div revolution with upcoming tv, hollywood productions using 5div and 1dxii heavily on sets - no, you won't be seeing Sony and Panasonic consumer cams on any of those anytime soon. At that point, this thread will become moot.

It's never the ultimate resolution or even sharpness that matters. Most important - the look/rendering, accurate focus, colors, etc. resolution and sharpness are very distant second, especially for family use.

I have used pretty much every system out there except Fuji. And as much as I like Sony's XAVC codec and use it with my RX100 V all the time, 5div video looks simply much better than a7rii (incl. in crop) with very little effort. I have no reservation lending my 5div to family members and direct them to C1 preset for video and shoot away - with zero knwedge about video. Touchscreen DPAF is dummy proof. GH4 (haven't tried GH5) has entirely different look to videos and stills with supbar tracking and I consider it a very niche product. I neart always shoot my video wide open so consistent focus is very critical.

Yes, there is the inconvinient 1.74x crop in 4k which for me is an issue only when I wish wide angle but for those less frequent moments I switch to 1080p and then upscale in editing.

If you are mosty interested in landscape for both video and stills, Sony cameras are more appealing, IMO. All of my footage includes people.

USABILITY. iPhones don't have to the best in anything to be the greatest.

There is a lot of talk these days that maybe 4k doesn't matter and 1080p is good enough. In reailty, it is only true if you use something like Arri Aexa or Red to acquire 1080p footage. For consumer products, 4k looks way better on 65" screen, in part, due to improved colors not just resolution which is less obvious from a distance. For precious durable family memories, 4k is near mandatory these days, IMO.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18391638 (external link)
.

Spacemunkie wrote in post #18388468 (external link)
Not convinced by the 5D4 as a video camera at all but I guess it would do if video is secondary.

Spacemunkie, it seems that you and artsf, quoted below, are of very different opinions as to the 5D4's video capabilities. Would you care to elaborate on why you doubt that the 5D4 would be a capable video option for the OP?

artsf wrote in post #18388605 (external link)
5div is your best bet. Best hybrid cam stills/4k: canon lenses, DPAF, AWB-W, Canon cinematic colors, battery life, superb 4k pircure grab capability (mjpeg). If you do end up with 5div, keep Tokina, it will work great on 5div for 4k video that is only available in 1.8 crop mode.

.
.




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raptor3x
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Rutland, VT
Jul 01, 2017 16:42 |  #13

Either a panasonic G85 + 0.64x speedbooster or A6500 + speedbooster would be my recommendation.


Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii, Pen-F Lenses: µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 17 1.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, µ.Z 300 4.0

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Critterracing
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Northern NJ
Jul 01, 2017 17:18 |  #14

ok heres my saga.

i shoot with all the current nikon bodies and they all suck at video. even my d5.

so i began my video camera quest. started with a gopro hero5 on a karma stabilized grip. i love it so much it got me quickly addicted to video.

so i needed more. i tested out the GH5, didnt like it to many buttons and just to much going on and the auto focus sucked. Moved onto a sony A6500, sorry but its so small and fragile i instantly took it off my list. Auto focus wasnt what i wanted either.

sooo onto an oly m5 mkll. no good either. i already own the fuji xt-2 and x pro2 but never thought of trying them for video. so while i was in the store i tried them both. Equal fail on auto focus. now im thinking i need a dedicated video camera. i leave the camera store and head to best buy for a camcorder.

i stop by the cameras to see what they sell and i picked up an 80D. Holy chit i found what i wanted. blazing autofocus with tracking that is just perfect. i was hooked i didnt even look at camcorders. i headed back to my camera store and bought a 80D.

so yesterday i picked up a 5d4. even better focus, full frame and 4k. cant beat it.

if you cant swing the 5d4 id by pass on 4k and get the 80D.

Aldo


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Spacemunkie
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Jul 01, 2017 17:27 |  #15

^^ All eminently good points.

There is definitely more to working with video than outright IQ and there are pros and cons to both of the cameras. Also can't argue against the quality of the 50 1.2. I use it on an URSA and it is spectacular - the main reason I've kept my Canon gear :)

It boils down to absolute IQ vs speed of use and post processing for me. 5D4 file sizes are feckin humungous (still using that stupid Canon codec...) and transcoding is an absolute must before you start editing. I honestly can't be arsed - I'm not producing the next Avengers movie :-D

The GH4 is a great compromise - you can take quality footage straight out of the camera and be editing it efficiently without a complete beast of a machine. The more you shoot, the more workflow starts to matter and the GH4 comes into its own here. Other stuff is more hardware related - EVF beats rear LCD every time in the sun unless you want to spend on a Franken-rig, flip screen (sounds insignificant, but don't underestimate its use for a video cam...), customisable display with heaps of video-friendly features, selectable (efficient) codecs and bitrates, unlimited recording length, 4K 10 bit external recording and Speedbooster if you really must use lenses at their 35mm focal lengths.

So yes, it's compromised compared to the 5D4 as far as IQ and low light shooting is concerned. But if you're after a solid-as-a-rock video workhorse, then I think the GH4 is STILL one of the best options out there. Canon's DSLR hardware is, frankly, crippled for video in comparison. If you're not invested in a system, then Sony is still arguably the best all-round option. For the OP, with used prices being what they are, then a GH4 might be a useful option.


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Wanting 4k Capable camera - currently using 7D2 - advise?
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