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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands
Thread started 02 Jul 2017 (Sunday) 16:09
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Shooting video on Canon 60D. Need better high ISO performance

 
davesrose
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Post has been edited 5 months ago by davesrose.
Jul 05, 2017 16:26 as a reply to post 18394788 |  #31

The A7s is a very good video camera. You might like the focus peaking and other features mirror less cameras have. This comparison video does show the video quality of the A7s vs 5D3 at 6400. The Canon is quite usable. One thing that videographers say about the Canon cameras is that the video can have less sharpness due to its AA filter. And with what Canon is doing with their 4K, I think they're targeting those cameras to the cinema market.

Sony A7s vs Canon 5D3 (external link)


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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davesrose
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Jul 05, 2017 16:30 as a reply to post 18394870 |  #32

We're posting too quickly! :) Just posted a comparison with the 5D3. I would think those figures carry over for 1080 video, since they're using FF.


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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raptor3x
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Jul 05, 2017 19:31 |  #33

davesrose wrote in post #18394874 (external link)
We're posting too quickly! :) Just posted a comparison with the 5D3. I would think those figures carry over for 1080 video, since they're using FF.

Eh, sometimes they do sometimes they really really don't. Just look at the video from the D800/D600/D810. Based on the DR figures the high ISO video should be at least competitive with the 5D3, but the reality is that the 5D3 is a good 2-3 stops better in video even though they're close in stills.


Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii Lenses: µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 45 1.2, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, Z 150 2.0, µ.Z 300 4.0

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davesrose
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Post has been last edited 5 months ago by davesrose. 2 edits done in total.
Jul 05, 2017 19:45 as a reply to raptor3x's post |  #34

Well the comparison was with crop vs FF of same brand. When comparing other brands, sure there can be differences with video ISO based on DNR and codec compression. The DR figures of the D800/810 are higher then the 5D3 at lower ISOs, and then become identical. But look at the read noise. The 5D3 does have less noise at higher ISOs compared to the 800/810. Not a full 2-3 stops...so that would have to be because of the differences in processing. Edit...figured I'd also look at read noise of 5D3 vs 5DSr.

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Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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Charlie
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Jul 05, 2017 21:29 |  #35

lot of photography performance in this thread, however, due to the way video is handled by the camera, it doesnt always translate the same.


Sony A7rii x2 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - CV 35/1.7 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 35-70, 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8, 24/1.4 - Tamron 28-75 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 VC

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raptor3x
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Jul 05, 2017 23:51 |  #36

davesrose wrote in post #18394964 (external link)
Well the comparison was with crop vs FF of same brand. When comparing other brands, sure there can be differences with video ISO based on DNR and codec compression. The DR figures of the D800/810 are higher then the 5D3 at lower ISOs, and then become identical. But look at the read noise. The 5D3 does have less noise at higher ISOs compared to the 800/810. Not a full 2-3 stops...so that would have to be because of the differences in processing. Edit...figured I'd also look at read noise of 5D3 vs 5DSr.
thumbnailHosted photo: posted by davesrose in
./showthread.php?p=183​94964&i=i120084691
forum: Changing Camera Brands
thumbnailHosted photo: posted by davesrose in
./showthread.php?p=183​94964&i=i125754177
forum: Changing Camera Brands

Careful with those read noise charts, those are roughly equivalent to DxO's pixel level DR charts. Once you equalize them to the same magnification they'll look more like the link below.

http://photonstophotos​.net ...OS%205DS%20R,Nikon%​20D800 (external link)


Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii Lenses: µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 45 1.2, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, Z 150 2.0, µ.Z 300 4.0

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davesrose
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Jul 06, 2017 07:41 as a reply to raptor3x's post |  #37

As evidence from the charts, read noise is not roughly equivalent with DR. There are distinctions with high ISO noise between the Canon Models mentioned.


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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raptor3x
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Post has been last edited 5 months ago by raptor3x. 2 edits done in total.
Jul 06, 2017 08:15 |  #38

davesrose wrote in post #18395281 (external link)
As evidence from the charts, read noise is not roughly equivalent with DR. There are distinctions with high ISO noise between the Canon Models mentioned.

Again, you're confusing per pixel read noise with normalized dynamic range rather than per pixel dynamic range. Images below show the equivalent comparisons with per pixel dynamic range which is essentially 1/readnoise from Bill Claff's data (which is derived from DxO's measurements). Bill doesn't provide per pixel PDR plots on his website as far as I'm aware.

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Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii Lenses: µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 45 1.2, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, Z 150 2.0, µ.Z 300 4.0

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davesrose
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Jul 06, 2017 08:49 as a reply to raptor3x's post |  #39

Then how do you explain the 5D3's lower high ISO video noise then the D810? DNR filters can only do so much. With your recent DR graphs, they also show the 5D3 having some better DR at higher ISO then the D810. It doesn't look as pronounced as read noise alone. Because there is more more noise at high ISO, it's harder to determine DR and read noise plays more of a factor. Anyway, to be back on topic: FF cameras have less high ISO noise compared to crop cameras.


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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raptor3x
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Post has been last edited 5 months ago by raptor3x. 2 edits done in total.
Jul 06, 2017 08:56 |  #40

davesrose wrote in post #18395329 (external link)
Then how do you explain the 5D3's lower high ISO video noise then the D810? DNR filters can only do so much.

It's because of how the video image is formed. The D800 uses line skipping whereas the 5D3 uses a 3x3 pixel binning method. Line skipping vs oversampling vs 1-to-1 vs pixel binning makes a huge difference which won't be reflected in the sensor data measurements.

davesrose wrote in post #18395329 (external link)
With your recent DR graphs, they also show the 5D3 having some better DR at higher ISO then the D810. It doesn't look as pronounced as read noise alone. Because there is more more noise at high ISO, it's harder to determine DR and read noise plays more of a factor. Anyway, to be back on topic: FF cameras have less high ISO noise compared to crop cameras.

Not quite, they show the 5D3 having better DR at the pixel level, when you normalize to a given magnification they're almost identical at high ISO.


Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii Lenses: µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 45 1.2, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, Z 150 2.0, µ.Z 300 4.0

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MrWho
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Jul 10, 2017 00:35 |  #41

Depends on what you're filming to be honest.

From a controlled environment point of view, forget upgrading the camera, focus on lighting. A 5D3 looked like garbage in a poorly lit scene when I was editing it. With good lighting, we pulled gorgeous footage from a T3i in a very dimly lit auditorium. From what I've read, the 5D4 is much better.

In the wild, look at actual video footage, and pay attention to which lenses are available. From personal experience, working with adapters is a bit of a hassle. Not a deal breaker, but I've heard stories of lenses getting stuck to the adapter. Also, don't lose sleep over lack of 4K or SNR charts. We had 1080p footage displayed on a theatre sized screen, and we received zero complaints over the quality of our footage.

The best thing to do is just go watch test footage, try to find some ungraded if you can. Once you've watched the footage, do what's kind to your budget. If you're happy with a 6D2, get a 6D2. There are many other aspects to video outside of resolution.


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Shooting video on Canon 60D. Need better high ISO performance
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