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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk
Thread started 20 Jul 2017 (Thursday) 11:27
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Did first wedding, flash puzzlement...

 
Immaculens
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Post has been edited 3 months ago by Immaculens.
Jul 20, 2017 11:27 |  #1

Hello folks, deleted most or all overexposed images but often when I used flash outside (or inside) it was often greatly overexposed and then sometimes underexposed.

Working on the fly and having overexposed shots and not knowing why... was all part of the fun :oops::rolleyes::twisted:

was using 7D2 with 320EX and 15-85 IS. I think flash was ettl and no real modifications. shutter was in the 125-250 range.

if over exposed should I have turned on the sync function to increase shutter to lower ambient?

Any obvious ideas why I would often be overexposed would be appreciated. Or point me to a relevant video tutorial.

Much thanks, starting my troubleshooting/correc​tive journey here...


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Learn to love to do well, and you shall. ~ C. Poseidon

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silvrr
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Jul 20, 2017 14:02 |  #2

Immaculens wrote in post #18406777 (external link)
Any obvious ideas why I would often be overexposed would be appreciated.

Do you have a basic understanding of how your camera meter works (not being snarky)? What metering mode are you using?

Do the bright pictures have lots of black (grooms tux) or dark backgrounds that the flash is trying to fill?


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gossamer88
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Jul 20, 2017 14:14 |  #3

Would like to see some samples, but my assumption is that you're not bouncing the light or using a modifier. This technique often softens the light. You may also need to adjust the FEC.


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Immaculens
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Jul 20, 2017 14:45 |  #4

Thanks for the replies ~ was using evaluative metering.

most shots were outside so was not using bounce

tried bounce a few times indoors and light was uneven.


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Wilt
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Post has been edited 3 months ago by Wilt.
Jul 20, 2017 15:06 |  #5

Keep in mind that ANY flash exposure really has two components,


  1. the part of the exposure resulting from ambient light recorded by aperture+shutter+ISO
  2. the part of the exposure resulting from flash recorded by aperture+ISO


So if you overexposed your flash shots outside, you could


  1. reduce aperture diameter, to affect both flash half and ambient half of the total exposure
  2. reduce ISO sensitivity, to affect both flash half and ambient half of the total exposure
  3. increase shutter speed (up to X-sync speed), to affect the ambient half of the total exposure
  4. increase shutter speed (above X-sync speed), to affect the ambient half of the total exposure and the flash half of the exposure


The above bullets are what I would term 'generic fix' for the problem of overexposure. In YOUR case, it would be good to see example shots with EXIF data stored within the files, in an effort to diagnose exactly why your shots failed...it could be a combination of reasons, leading to exposure failure.

Reasons why specifically flash exposures fail with overexposure include

  • eTTL flash failure to regulate itself down from full power, due to connection issues between camera and flash
  • eTTL flash cannot regulate itself ENOUGH down from full power, and has reached its bottom power level

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wallstreetoneil
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Jul 20, 2017 15:56 |  #6

Immaculens wrote in post #18406954 (external link)
most shots were outside so was not using bounce.


If you were using any semi automatic mode, your ISO will peg itself at ISO 400. Since you mentioned you were shooting 'outside' with most of the over-exposures, the easy guess is that ISO 400 was way too much exposure (especially it you had some kind of min shutter speed setup). Only Manual Mode, in the Canon world, allows you to set a non 400 ISO when using flash. Since 400 ISO is basically never the correct ISO, if you are going to start using flash, I would highly recommend switching to only using Manual Mode for Flash use. When you are indoors in dark receptions using bounced or off camera flash, you are going to want ISO to be at 1250-4000 (with flash - and even possibly using 2nd curtain) and when you are outside in sun, you are going to want to be at ISO 50-100 and using High Speed Sync - and the semi Automatic modes DO NOT DO THIS.

The only way to use flash outdoors is to be in fully manual mode, meter the scene before you shoot, and then set the appropriate ISO for proper exposure (to -2/3rd ev exposure) and then use ETTL for fill flash (likely set at -1/3 to -2/3rd EV) so you don't get the flash in the face look.

You also mentioned you were getting inconsistent exposure when trying this indoors - again, likely ISO 400 is your huge problem - and remembering that when bouncing, you have to constantly think how far is the thing you are bouncing off - and the use FEC to adjust.

Little practice goes a long way - won't take much to pick it up.


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tim
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Jul 20, 2017 18:36 |  #7

Best guess, by putting your flash on the camera you limited your shutter to the sync speed, probably 1/250th. That means given your aperture and ISO settings you overexposed. Turning on High Speed Sync (HSS) on the flash would've addressed this.

Or it could be something else.


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Immaculens
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Jul 20, 2017 21:49 |  #8

Thank-you so much each of you!

As addressed by you above,

My main two problems were: most of my early overexposure shots were at ISO 400(I did change ISO lower later on), and; I did not enable HSS which is what I would have done even two yrs ago, but I had forgotten due to lack of using flash :rolleyes:

Thanks folks!


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Colin ­ Glover
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Jul 21, 2017 14:14 |  #9

So how would HSS help? Would it enable higher shutter speeds? It's a great tip. I wondered why it happened. What I sometimes find, is that some shots are dark but ISO 400. I thought it was recycle times. Green square mode sort of corrected it, but with high ISO. Why?
.


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wallstreetoneil
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Post has been edited 3 months ago by wallstreetoneil.
Jul 21, 2017 16:03 |  #10

Colin Glover wrote in post #18407765 (external link)
So how would HSS help? Would it enable higher shutter speeds? It's a great tip. I wondered why it happened. What I sometimes find, is that some shots are dark but ISO 400. I thought it was recycle times. Green square mode sort of corrected it, but with high ISO. Why?
.

So how would HSS help?
- you are outside, and let's say correct exposure is 1/800, F2.8, ISO 100
- you put your Canon Camera in AV mode, put on a Flash and turn it on
- Canon 'software' sets ISO to 400, you have chosen F2.8 for Aperture, and your flash sync is 1/200 - now what? - you have added 4 doublings of light to correct exposure
- a 1/3200 SS would bring you back to theoretical correct exposure (assuming your flash had the power to do this properly - it doesn't - but in theory that would be the correct SS) - and that is what HSS does

What I sometimes find, is that some shots are dark but ISO 400. I thought it was recycle times. Green square mode sort of corrected it, but with high ISO. Why?
- if your shot is dark, you do not have enough exposure - thus basically your ISO at 400 is not enough given your SS and Aperture choice
- the Green Square + mode is Canon's SMART flash mode where it will choose some wild set of exposure choices (not really wild but they certainly can be unique) but it will bump up the ISO way above ISO400 if required - and that is why it sort of corrects the problem in dark spaces


Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

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Immaculens
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Post has been edited 3 months ago by Immaculens.
Jul 21, 2017 17:11 |  #11

Colin Glover wrote in post #18407765 (external link)
So how would HSS help? Would it enable higher shutter speeds? It's a great tip. I wondered why it happened.

The shutter speed controls ambient light but without HSS, your shutter only goes up to 200 or 250 depending on the body model.

So being able to have the freedom of a shutter 1/250 ++ is a quick way to deal with over/underexposure without messing with your aperture - which to me is too important to mess with because I want my aperture to be fast.

If you were asking me why it happened, I explained above - I should have enabled HSS to control ambient - "and" for the first third of my shots I had ISO too high.

I presume my ISO showed 400 because although I was in Manual mode - I had kept ISO on Auto - which I think was the whoops factor there because I'm guessing it defaulted to '400'. Should have set it to 100 or 200.

I think the teaching in this thread is worth good money and time so again - my thanks to those who took the time to reply ~


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Learn to love to do well, and you shall. ~ C. Poseidon

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Silver-Halide
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Jul 21, 2017 17:18 |  #12

Caveats withHSS: your battery drains faster and the flash out out isn't as strong as full power on regular sync.


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Silver-Halide
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Joined Jan 2015
Jul 21, 2017 17:20 |  #13

Keep that limitation in mind for photos outdoor. It's not a free lunch and unless you're shooting 35-50mm and close, one speed lite often isn't enough.


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Wilt
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Jul 21, 2017 17:32 |  #14

Wilt wrote in post #18406969 (external link)
Keep in mind that ANY flash exposure really has two components,


  1. the part of the exposure resulting from ambient light recorded by aperture+shutter+ISO
  2. the part of the exposure resulting from flash recorded by aperture+ISO


So if you overexposed your flash shots outside, you could


  1. reduce aperture diameter, to affect both flash half and ambient half of the total exposure
  2. reduce ISO sensitivity, to affect both flash half and ambient half of the total exposure
  3. increase shutter speed (up to X-sync speed), to affect the ambient half of the total exposure
  4. increase shutter speed (above X-sync speed), to affect the ambient half of the total exposure and the flash half of the exposure


The above bullets are what I would term 'generic fix' for the problem of overexposure. In YOUR case, it would be good to see example shots with EXIF data stored within the files, in an effort to diagnose exactly why your shots failed...it could be a combination of reasons, leading to exposure failure.

Reasons why specifically flash exposures fail with overexposure include

  • eTTL flash failure to regulate itself down from full power, due to connection issues between camera and flash
  • eTTL flash cannot regulate itself ENOUGH down from full power, and has reached its bottom power level

You MUST keep in mind that if -- without flash -- your ambient light exposure is 'proper exposure', adding ANY flash at all will be resulting in 'more than proper exposure'...OVERexposu​re.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support http://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
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Colin ­ Glover
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Jul 27, 2017 11:29 |  #15

Great advice fellas. Much appreciated.


Canon EOS 70D, Canon EOS 600D, EF-S 18-55 ii, EF 55-200 USM ii, EF-S 75-300 iii, Tamron 28-80, Sigma 70-210. Pentax 50mm, Pentax 135mm, EF-S 55-250, Raynox Macro adapter, Neewer filters (CPL, UV, FLD & ND4), Fuji HS20 EXR (30X zoom ) & cable release, Yongnuo 560 iii & Luxon 9800A manual flashguns for the Fuji, Hama Star 63 tripod, Hongdek RC-6 remote control, Velbon DF 40 www.point-n-shoot.co.uk website.

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Did first wedding, flash puzzlement...
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