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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Critique Corner 
Thread started 14 Aug 2017 (Monday) 15:57
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New York City The Bitter End bar

 
Mare333
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Aug 14, 2017 15:57 |  #1

Hello, here is one more landmark from my photoshoots of New York City. This is the famous Bitter End bar, where many musicians have performed and are performing to this day. I have previously posted a famous café and got feedback that there is no context, that unless a person knows this landmark they don't know what they are looking at. However, it is my intention to keep photographing these landmarks and present them to people who are not familiar with them. I am planning to create a book that will have these photographs and captions of what these landmarks are. So it is my purpose to capture these images and introduce them to those who are not familiar with them. I photographed this bar from the front, I couldn't photograph from an angle because it is directly adjacent to other businesses. The settings were as follows: 18-55mm lens at 29mm focal length, f/5.6 (not too bright not too dark),shutter speed 1/200, ISO 100, No flash.So I'd appreciate your feedback. Thank you very much:)


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Mr_ipsum
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Aug 15, 2017 11:51 |  #2

Very bland to me. Great shot for google maps, but not so much for story telling and giving a sense of history. Maybe shoot when the bar is open or at night with people and/or the musicians entering the place with their instruments giving a sense of life and vibrancy.


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Aug 16, 2017 12:34 |  #3

Same as in previous shot in previous post. Flat, no sparkle.


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Mare333
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Aug 16, 2017 17:25 |  #4

Mr_ipsum wrote in post #18428353 (external link)
Very bland to me. Great shot for google maps, but not so much for story telling and giving a sense of history. Maybe shoot when the bar is open or at night with people and/or the musicians entering the place with their instruments giving a sense of life and vibrancy.

Thank you for your feedback. I am learning about the flat light. I asked several people and they said the same thing. And I myself can see that it's flat. However, I have a question about it. If in order for it NOT to be flat I decided to create modeling light and interplay between light and shadow how would I go about that? If I use fill flash even though it's just a fill I think it would really OVEREXPOSE EVERTYTHING - both the subject and the background since I would be using the flash in BROAD DAY LIGHT when everything is already brightly lit. I would appreciate any advice, thanks.




  
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Mare333
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Aug 16, 2017 17:26 |  #5

kf095 wrote in post #18429317 (external link)
Same as in previous shot in previous post. Flat, no sparkle.

Thanks for your feedback, I am learning:-)




  
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Snydremark
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Aug 16, 2017 18:05 |  #6

To deal with the light, shoot it eariler/later (depending on which way the building faces) to get the softer and often warmer lighting that comes early in the day or toward the evenings...also, consider taking a tripod and shooting it at night since that's most likely when a musician would be playing for a show. That way you'd have a bit more of the 'mood' that people would associate with performance venue.

For your composition/framing, I would suggest framing it *slightly* higher and to the right. That way, you would sacrifice the tiny corner of the awning there and some of the foreground sidewalk, but you wouldn't cut off the side of the nice, round awning and not get such a cramped feeling to the frame with it so close to the top edge.


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Aug 16, 2017 20:11 |  #7

It's truly a great venue. I've been there a number of times. It's small, but they book top acts--sometimes heavies with little or no notice. Standing 3 feet away from Eric Johnson playing was bliss.

Bleecker Street gets good light in the late afternoon. But a better shot would be later in the evening with those lamps shing down and smokers carousing outside.

I think the OP was touring the city during a limited span of time, so he didn't necessarily have the luxury of prepping each location for optimum light.


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Aug 16, 2017 22:37 |  #8

Saw many great shows there... Agree with others, shot at dusk with the lights glowing would have been nice. But, still a nice reminder. The stories in my head make for a nice warm feeling.


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Mr_ipsum
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Aug 17, 2017 07:40 |  #9

Mare333 wrote in post #18429568 (external link)
Thank you for your feedback. I am learning about the flat light. I asked several people and they said the same thing. And I myself can see that it's flat. However, I have a question about it. If in order for it NOT to be flat I decided to create modeling light and interplay between light and shadow how would I go about that? If I use fill flash even though it's just a fill I think it would really OVEREXPOSE EVERTYTHING - both the subject and the background since I would be using the flash in BROAD DAY LIGHT when everything is already brightly lit. I would appreciate any advice, thanks.

Why do you want to go back in broad daylight? Go at night or late afternoon and the flat lighting shouldn't be an issue. Not only that but would should get a better composition a night with the bar being a little more lively when it is open.

One of the things I've learned is that a making a good photograph is partly about the technical skills of using the camera but just as much about when and where you go to get a shot. I can't photograph a great sunset at noon, nor can I shoot the milky way in the night sky from NYC. Sometimes getting the shot is about how much you are willing to go when and where the great shots are.


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Aug 31, 2017 09:12 |  #10

Yes the ligh is flat but I dont really feel that that is the big issue... sorry but the subject is boring. If I brought studio lighting and fired good dynamic light at this building it might look kinda cool but it would be hard. Nothing against you but try to photograph something interesting. That might seem harsh but you are choosing really hard things to make look interesting. Dont be scared to photograph random people around new york. In public places it isnt a crime no matter what anyone says. Check out some insperation for street photography on the net and get out there.


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Sep 02, 2017 07:59 |  #11

Best shots are always inside


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Sep 02, 2017 14:07 |  #12

One famous NY landmark that has received similar treatment to what you are proposing is the legendary CBGB's. I understand what you mean about a landmark not being diminished for what it is just because someone doesn't recognize it. That fact does not diminish the value of the photograph, but there are other considerations you need to be aware of as you proceed into your project.

These locales are not about the facade or the building or the street it's on. It is all about the emotions connected to them and their histories. It is about the famous people who have entertained there and the countless fans who have come to watch them. It is about stories. If you are just going to present images like that posted here it will simply be an architectural study book and you will be hard pressed to find an audience. If, as others have suggested, you make it about the living, breathing energy of the place you will need to capture that environment. That means getting to know the locations, finding what makes them so popular with the audience and what made them famous and then capturing that sentiment, that emotion and that energy. Many of these places come alive at night, during their peak hours. That is when you really want to capture them. The image above is only a footnote in that story. A tranquil scene of what the place looks like at rest. It speaks nothing of the vitality of the venue.

Putting together a book like you propose is not easy. It's not merely grabbing a photo as you pass by and printing it on a page. You will need to also become a journalist and a researcher. Fortunately a lot of this work can be done online, but you really need to find the heart of these subjects and try to capture that heart. Unless, of course, you are just planning a book with architectural studies.


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Mare333
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Sep 02, 2017 19:46 |  #13

-Duck- wrote in post #18442977 (external link)
One famous NY landmark that has received similar treatment to what you are proposing is the legendary CBGB's. I understand what you mean about a landmark not being diminished for what it is just because someone doesn't recognize it. That fact does not diminish the value of the photograph, but there are other considerations you need to be aware of as you proceed into your project.

These locales are not about the facade or the building or the street it's on. It is all about the emotions connected to them and their histories. It is about the famous people who have entertained there and the countless fans who have come to watch them. It is about stories. If you are just going to present images like that posted here it will simply be an architectural study book and you will be hard pressed to find an audience. If, as others have suggested, you make it about the living, breathing energy of the place you will need to capture that environment. That means getting to know the locations, finding what makes them so popular with the audience and what made them famous and then capturing that sentiment, that emotion and that energy. Many of these places come alive at night, during their peak hours. That is when you really want to capture them. The image above is only a footnote in that story. A tranquil scene of what the place looks like at rest. It speaks nothing of the vitality of the venue.

Putting together a book like you propose is not easy. It's not merely grabbing a photo as you pass by and printing it on a page. You will need to also become a journalist and a researcher. Fortunately a lot of this work can be done online, but you really need to find the heart of these subjects and try to capture that heart. Unless, of course, you are just planning a book with architectural studies.

Thank you so much for your feedback. I'm glad you understand what I am trying to do. It would be great to include CBGB too bad it closed. I will take your advice into consideration and try to capture the essence of these places though it is not easy. These places really are magical though those unfamiliar with them may not realize that. It was really difficult for me to take these photographs because there were constantly tour groups and tourists trying to take pictures of these places as well. Anyway thanks again for your time and your advice.:-)




  
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Snydremark
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Sep 02, 2017 20:05 |  #14

Mare333 wrote in post #18443183 (external link)
Thank you so much for your feedback. I'm glad you understand what I am trying to do. It would be great to include CBGB too bad it closed. I will take your advice into consideration and try to capture the essence of these places though it is not easy. These places really are magical though those unfamiliar with them may not realize that. It was really difficult for me to take these photographs because there were constantly tour groups and tourists trying to take pictures of these places as well. Anyway thanks again for your time and your advice.:-)

If you can get set up with a tripod, close your aperture all the way down and make your exposure time longer. Since you're dealing with a static object, if you can get your exposure time up around 15+ seconds, you should be able to eliminate people moving through your frame, as long as they don't pause themselves for more than 1 or 2 seconds. Throw an ND filter on to get up to 30s and you should be able to eliminate all but the most dedicated of photobombers :D


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Sep 08, 2017 13:26 |  #15

I'd agree, the image needs more drama to it. I also agree a night shot would work best. Not completely correct but you get the idea...


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